Cloudy Gin question

[SheepDale]

Hi all,
I made a gin three weeks ago in my Air Still and quite liked it, so thought I would make 4 more slightly different.

I take 1 litre of 40% ABV vodka that I made a few months ago. The spirit has already been double distilled, I made cuts and filtered it through activated carbon.

I put the vodka in a glass jar, then added some botanicals. I left them for 24 hours, then put them in my Air Still (one at a time) and ran them. I collected 420ml of spirit, then diluted it down to 45% ABV & bottled them.

While I was diluting them, two of the gins went cloudy. Then when I went to check them now (5 days after distilling them) one other one has gone slightly cloudy.

Can somebody please help me understand why some of them went cloudy.
Am I correct in thinking that the only way to 'fix' them would be to re-distil them? But if I did that some of the flavour would go, yes?
Last question, would cloudy gin taste any different from non-cloudy gin? Or is it more a look thing, meaning it doesn't matter if they are cloudy.

Happy to give list of botanicals used if it helps.

Many thanks for your help.

[Dougmatt]

Hi. What you see is called louching as the biological oils cause the solution to haze. This can often be solved most simply by taking the proof up above 43% by adding a higher proof base Spirit to your gin if you care about it. If you don’t care, it’s fine to drink. There are lots of threads on HD on this that a search will find more information, but it’s very common.

In the future don’t proof to 40, try to stay above at least 43%. If you are putting it in tonic, it will louche then regardless just like a lot of commercial gins do.

Let us know if you have more questions.

Edit: there’s nothing magical about 43%, that just seems to be what usually works for me. I’ve had to go higher and even had some I gave up on. If you like the taste, and want a certain proof, love the louche (and next time cut back on your biological, especially juniper)

[chown]

^this
You've got lots of flavor (oils) in there. The oils fully dissolve in say, 50+% alcohol, but when you dilute, the oils can't stay in solution and comes out causing the haze. My gin always seems to louche around 40% so i bottle at 45% and it remains clear.

[Saltbush Bill]

The short answer is the oils from the botanicals cause louching.
Personally I wouldn't bother about it, it will taste the same.
Making a very small "fores" cut at the beginning of the run will help avoid some of the problem, that first small cut has a lot of oils in it.
Dont make the cut to big as you will be throwing good flavour away with it.

[TwoSheds]

Good info above. For eye-bleeding levels of reading search the forum for "louch", but basically the haze you see are oils which carry flavor. Depending on your goals you could do one of the following:

If you like the way it tastes and don't want to dilute the flavor, your best move is to leave it hazy and enjoy. Next time decrease botanicals, increase volume, or dilute it less for a higher final ABV.

If you want it clear and don't mind higher ABV and somewhat weaker flavor, add higher proof neutral alcohol if you have it.

If you want to keep it at the current ABV and don't mind weaker flavor add neutral alcohol at the same proof as the gin. This effectively reduces the ratio of oils to alcohol without increasing the proof.

So it depends on what your goals are and what it tastes like. I like a clear gin that's just shy of a louch. My current recipe louches in tonic or even a martini but in the bottle doesn't scare the few people I share it with.

Re-distilling could be an interesting experiment but you will certainly end up with a milder product.

[howie]

what they said above.
also, if you have a gin that is on the cusp of louching it can change with temperature difference.

[SheepDale]

Hi. What you see is called louching as the biological oils cause the solution to haze. This can often be solved most simply by taking the proof up above 43% by adding a higher proof base Spirit to your gin if you care about it. If you don’t care, it’s fine to drink. There are lots of threads on HD on this that a search will find more information, but it’s very common.

In the future don’t proof to 40, try to stay above at least 43%. If you are putting it in tonic, it will louche then regardless just like a lot of commercial gins do.

Let us know if you have more questions.

Edit: there’s nothing magical about 43%, that just seems to be what usually works for me. I’ve had to go higher and even had some I gave up on. If you like the taste, and want a certain proof, love the louche (and next time cut back on your biological, especially juniper)

Thank you so much Dougmatt for your comments. FYI I diluted the gin to 45% ABV, as was told not to go lower, so I didn't go below 43%.

[SheepDale]

^this
You've got lots of flavor (oils) in there. The oils fully dissolve in say, 50+% alcohol, but when you dilute, the oils can't stay in solution and comes out causing the haze. My gin always seems to louche around 40% so i bottle at 45% and it remains clear.

Thank you Chown

[SheepDale]

The short answer is the oils from the botanicals cause louching.
Personally I wouldn't bother about it, it will taste the same.
Making a very small "fores" cut at the beginning of the run will help avoid some of the problem, that first small cut has a lot of oils in it.
Dont make the cut to big as you will be throwing good flavour away with it.

Thank you Saltbush Bill.
I did do 100ml cuts, but in the end threw it all together (I did stop around 52% ABV as the taste started to disappear). As to a fores cut, for a 1 litre run, what do you think, 50ml? Or is that too much?

Many thanks

[SheepDale]

Good info above. For eye-bleeding levels of reading search the forum for "louch", but basically the haze you see are oils which carry flavor. Depending on your goals you could do one of the following:

If you like the way it tastes and don't want to dilute the flavor, your best move is to leave it hazy and enjoy. Next time decrease botanicals, increase volume, or dilute it less for a higher final ABV.

If you want it clear and don't mind higher ABV and somewhat weaker flavor, add higher proof neutral alcohol if you have it.

If you want to keep it at the current ABV and don't mind weaker flavor add neutral alcohol at the same proof as the gin. This effectively reduces the ratio of oils to alcohol without increasing the proof.

So it depends on what your goals are and what it tastes like. I like a clear gin that's just shy of a louch. My current recipe louches in tonic or even a martini but in the bottle doesn't scare the few people I share it with.

Re-distilling could be an interesting experiment but you will certainly end up with a milder product.

Thank you TwoSheds, that is some great information for me to go on. I think I will leave them as they are now. I will be trying them this weekend & plan to make another 3-4 different versions as well. I basically want to make 2-5 each week (only 1 litre batches) as want to really play. I have plenty of netuteral spirit that I have made over the years, but not got around to using.

[SheepDale]

what they said above.
also, if you have a gin that is on the cusp of louching it can change with temperature difference.

Thanks howie. Yes, that is only thing I found when I Googled it, that temperature can be a factor. Bottle #1 for example was clear when I bottled it, it then turned slightly a few days later. I hadn't heard of louching before, hence I didn't search for it in here. Now I know & all because all of you lovely people who replied to me.

Thank you so much everybody who replied. I have learnt a lot.

[EricTheRed]

Did you do an Odin's Easy Gin?
If so you ran way too far at 52%
What was you combined final abv?

Just finished one with an average abv of 72%

[SheepDale]

Did you do an Odin's Easy Gin?
If so you ran way too far at 52%
What was you combined final abv?

Just finished one with an average abv of 72%

Hi EricTheRed,
No, not a Odin's Easy Gin.

I used the below:

#2
Juniper - 20g
Angelica Root - 2g
Coriander - 10g

#3
Juniper - 20g
Angelica Root - 2g
Coriander - 10g
Apple - 50g

#4
Juniper - 20g
Angelica Root - 2g
Coriander - 10g
Apple - 50g
Elderberries - 5g

#5
Juniper - 20g
Angelica Root - 2g
Coriander - 10g
Apple - 50g
Rowan Berries - 5g

As said, just playing at the moment to see what ingredients I like and at what quantity.

[TwoSheds]

Some nice looking combos there. How do you find the apple comes through?

This reminds me I wanted to play around with cranberries. Have some in the freezer I can try.

[NZChris]

I did do 100ml cuts, but in the end threw it all together (I did stop around 52% ABV as the taste started to disappear). As to a fores cut, for a 1 litre run, what do you think, 50ml? Or is that too much?

I take 10ml, smell it, sometimes including it.

From experience I have found a cutoff volume that works for me and my still. Most of my gins are cloudy at my desired proof, so if I want them clear I have to add neutral at the same proof until it clears.

Common in industry, and in my shed, the botanical bill can be multiplied several times to make a concentrate which can then be diluted with neutral when bottling. To work out how much neutral I can add, I proof a sample and some neutral, then add the neutral until the sample just clears. It's a handy trick if you want to make a large batch with a small still.

[SheepDale]

Some nice looking combos there. How do you find the apple comes through?

This reminds me I wanted to play around with cranberries. Have some in the freezer I can try.

Hi TwoSheds, I haven't tried them yet. I distilled them last Saturday, so I will try them tomorrow (so almost 7 days to settle).
I will let you know how they are once I crack them open.

[SheepDale]

I did do 100ml cuts, but in the end threw it all together (I did stop around 52% ABV as the taste started to disappear). As to a fores cut, for a 1 litre run, what do you think, 50ml? Or is that too much?

I take 10ml, smell it, sometimes including it.

From experience I have found a cutoff volume that works for me and my still. Most of my gins are cloudy at my desired proof, so if I want them clear I have to add neutral at the same proof until it clears.

Common in industry, and in my shed, the botanical bill can be multiplied several times to make a concentrate which can then be diluted with neutral when bottling. To work out how much neutral I can add, I proof a sample and some neutral, then add the neutral until the sample just clears. It's a handy trick if you want to make a large batch with a small still.

Great idea NZChris, thank you.
Next week when I have a bit more time I will re-distill some of my neutral so I will have around 5 Litres of 95.5% ABV which I will store for gin. Then as and when I get cloudy gin, I can keep adding a little as a time until it clears. Then as you say, document the ABV so if I make that exact drink again, I will know what ABV it likes to sit at.