To much molasses maybe?

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Captn Jack
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To much molasses maybe?

Post by Captn Jack »

I am doing s rum wash with 100% molasses, the kind you get at a farm feed store. I KIND of followed a recipe, but then again didn't. It called for 8Lt or 2.11 gal of molasses. with around 6.5 gals of water. Which is around 8gal. total. I wanted to make at least 10 gals if washed. So I added about 4.5 gallons of molasses to 10 gals of warm and hot water. Waited till it got to around 90deg and added the bread yeast 5 paks. I have it in a 30-gal sealed fermentor with a bubbler.
So far I am not getting any CO2 in the bubbler. When I opened it to have a look it is covered with fermentation very small bubbles. I was thinking, should it not be bubbling violently? And kind of just was wondering if it is possible I have too much molasses in the mix. If so I was going to add 3 more gallons of water. My reading is around 1.155.
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Re: To much molasses maybe?

Post by Bradster68 »

I use SBB's rum recipe with is a bout a litre per gallon.
If that gravity reading you took is accurate,which I don't think It was,molasses washes don't work that way. Your actually closer to 1.7 litres per gallon. I never check my gravity when I do Bills recipe. It's in the tried and true for a reason. Also some nutrients for the yeast are needed.
Hopefully others will chime in. If you haven't read his recipe I would go there and take some pointers.but I'm guessing maybe stick to his ratio.
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Re: To much molasses maybe?

Post by subbrew »

What is the temperature? Bread yeast likes a nice 85 F or so. Also, how long has it been? Especially if you are at room temp, 70 F or so it could take a couple of days to get going. The fact you have fine bubbles on the top suggests it is starting to ferment.
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Re: To much molasses maybe?

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I have it at 90 deg with bread yeast. I didn't add any nutrients. Going on 2 days now
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Re: To much molasses maybe?

Post by Bradster68 »

Captn Jack wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:20 am I have it at 90 deg with bread yeast. I didn't add any nutrients. Going on 2 days now
Alot of guys ferment bread yeast at 85. But there are also a bunch that go 90 even in rums. (All found in the archives).
I think your temp is fine.
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Re: To much molasses maybe?

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Captn Jack wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 10:04 am sealed fermentor with a bubbler.
So far I am not getting any CO2 in the bubbler. When I opened it to have a look it is covered with fermentation very small bubbles. I was thinking, should it not be bubbling violently? And kind of just was wondering if it is possible I have too much molasses in the mix. If so I was going to add 3 more gallons of water. My reading is around 1.155.
My conversion has you at a touch under 2.5 L per Ltr of mollases which should be fine

If its fizzing then the violent stuff has already happened

You probably have a leak in the seal on your fermentor, don't rely on a airlock. Look, listen and taste.

I don't bother about gravity

Everything seems OK, I'd leave it alone :thumbup:
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Re: To much molasses maybe?

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I am going to let it go for a week as is and see how it goes.
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Re: To much molasses maybe?

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Captn Jack wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 10:04 am My reading is around 1.155.
What was the OG?
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Re: To much molasses maybe?

Post by Chucker »

I’ve done the SBB recipe a couple of times now. I used regular ol bread yeast. Took off like a rocket and then still fizzed for nearly 6 weeks. Yield seemed great, flavor is great. Just took time to finish. I wouldn’t change a thing.
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Re: To much molasses maybe?

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Chucker wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 2:47 pm Took off like a rocket and then still fizzed for nearly 6 weeks.
6 weeks seems like an awfully long time, but as long as it ended well no harm done.
Depending on time of year "temp" mine are often done in 4-5 days.....8-9 at very most.....I let them sit a bit after that.
I can only presume that your in a cold country and the colder conditions are slowing yours down.
Mine never get any artificial heat.
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Re: To much molasses maybe?

Post by still_stirrin »

Captn Jack wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 10:04 am… So far I am not getting any CO2 in the bubbler … My reading is around 1.155.
RU sure? My hydrometer doesn’t read that high. Mine only goes up to about 1.140, which is quite high already. And, it’s getting towards the “non-linear” portion of measurement, so accuracy is questionable.

But, if your OG =1.155 (for real), then you may have killed the yeast, especially if you pitched dry yeast without rehydrating. With that much sugar in the wash, the osmotic pressures on the yeast cell walls would cause the cells to simply implode. And if the yeast was not properly rehydrated, the cell walls are very fragile, like thin eggshells.

Sure, a few yeast may have survived your attempted murder, but those will struggle to do the job you’ve tasked them with.

Typically, a molasses ferment will start quick and ferment very fast, provided you did the correct things. First, don’t try to make 20%ABV alcohol in the fermenter. And, the yeast needs oxygen to reproduce (called, “budding”). If you didn’t properly aerate the wash before pitching yeast, you’ve starved them of their aerobic phase of life. Latent fermentation is a later anaerobic part of their lifecycle.

Also, when you try such a high gravity ferment, the yeast will be stressed (if even alive) and you’ll get a lot of wild & crazy flavors happening in the ferments. This will make your distillation and cuts more challenging as well.

So, all I can say is that you're like a “bull in a china closet” trying to force the ferment to do something it can’t, especially with the way you’ve abused the yeast to begin with. If you knew more about fermenting (and brewing) them maybe you would be more successful. But force won’t get you there.
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Re: To much molasses maybe?

Post by shadylane »

Captn Jack wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 10:04 am I am doing s rum wash with 100% molasses, the kind you get at a farm feed store. I KIND of followed a recipe, but then again didn't.
Been there and done that.
Ya don't have to follow a recipe. But Ya have to keep the yeast happy.
Spray water in the wash to dilute and aerate, add nutrients/minerals and pitch rehydrated yeast.
All isn't lost, if yeast can't grow yet in your fermenter, it's safe from most bacteria. :lol:
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Re: To much molasses maybe?

Post by Sporacle »

still_stirrin wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:18 pm Also, when you try such a high gravity ferment, the yeast will be stressed (if even alive) and you’ll get a lot of wild & crazy flavors happening in the ferments. This will make your distillation and cuts more challenging as well.
SS I converted the OP mollases to water ratio and he was at pretty much the same ratios as Saltys recipe, isn't the high gravity due to the un-fermentables or just a mistaken reading :thumbup:
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Re: To much molasses maybe?

Post by Yummyrum »

Sporacle wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 12:47 am
still_stirrin wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:18 pm Also, when you try such a high gravity ferment, the yeast will be stressed (if even alive) and you’ll get a lot of wild & crazy flavors happening in the ferments. This will make your distillation and cuts more challenging as well.
SS I converted the OP mollases to water ratio and he was at pretty much the same ratios as Saltys recipe, isn't the high gravity due to the un-fermentables or just a mistaken reading :thumbup:
I also did the math and agree with you Spiracle that is pretty similar to Salty’s recipe , too much Molly doesn't seem to me to be the issue …. However , the OP
has not mentioned if they added Epsom salts or Vits
Fermentation temp is important and haven’t heard what this was . It had to be at least above 25°C and closer to 30°C

I have to say the OG readings are way off what I would have expected . Something circa 1.120-1.130 ….. but 1.155 is way out .
Perhaps this is not the Blackstrap molasses we would normally use , but some adulterated Feedstock crap that has extra protein added to it .

Also the possibility that it has sulphur added that has inhibited fermentation .
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Re: To much molasses maybe?

Post by still_stirrin »

Yummyrum wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 4:32 am… I have to say the OG readings are way off what I would have expected . Something circa 1.120-1.130 ….. but 1.155 is way out .
Perhaps this is not the Blackstrap molasses we would normally use , but some adulterated Feedstock crap that has extra protein added to it .

Also the possibility that it has sulphur added that has inhibited fermentation .
I agree with you, Yummy.

I have used the “deer lick” molly (82 brix) and when diluted to ferment, it was in the 1.120 range. Also, I did a short kettle boil with it to help break down the proteins and “other stuff” in the thick goo. It did help somewhat. My ferment went off like a rocket, fermenting out in 2-3 days. But, it also blew out the airlocks and overflowed all over the fermenter floor.

Of note, the deer lick molly had sodium propionate (propionic acid) in it as a preservative. And that didn’t inhibit fermentation at all.

If I remember correctly, the fermenters all finished around 1.050-1.060, giving me a %ABV potential of approximately 8.5%. But, even though the activity was very fast (2-3 days), I let the wash clear (as best I could) for another 2 weeks. The trub had settled by then and the rackoff was clear (like a cup of coffee without creamer, of course).

Nutrients for a rum wash … that’s a topic for a good discussion. You “rum guys” with a lot of rum experience need to help us “all grain guys” learn some of the “ins & outs”.

Thanks in advance.
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Re: To much molasses maybe?

Post by Dougmatt »

still_stirrin wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 6:59 am
Yummyrum wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 4:32 am… I have to say the OG readings are way off what I would have expected . Something circa 1.120-1.130 ….. but 1.155 is way out .
Perhaps this is not the Blackstrap molasses we would normally use , but some adulterated Feedstock crap that has extra protein added to it .

Also the possibility that it has sulphur added that has inhibited fermentation .
I agree with you, Yummy.

I have used the “deer lick” molly (82 brix) and when diluted to ferment, it was in the 1.120 range. Also, I did a short kettle boil with it to help break down the proteins and “other stuff” in the thick goo. It did help somewhat. My ferment went off like a rocket, fermenting out in 2-3 days. But, it also blew out the airlocks and overflowed all over the fermenter floor.

Of note, the deer lick molly had sodium propionate (propionic acid) in it as a preservative. And that didn’t inhibit fermentation at all.

If I remember correctly, the fermenters all finished around 1.050-1.060, giving me a %ABV potential of approximately 8.5%. But, even though the activity was very fast (2-3 days), I let the wash clear (as best I could) for another 2 weeks. The trub had settled by then and the rackoff was clear (like a cup of coffee without creamer, of course).

Nutrients for a rum wash … that’s a topic for a good discussion. You “rum guys” with a lot of rum experience need to help us “all grain guys” learn some of the “ins & outs”.

Thanks in advance.
ss

Personally I don’t add any nutrients to any generation of rum when I’m using dunder or Trub. The assumption being that there is enough spent yeast in there to keep a healthy ferment going. When starting from scratch (no dunder) S long as I’m using molasses, I usually don’t add any nutrients as bread yeast is grown on molasses without them though I have before.

Yeast are happy, fermentation completes, product is d@mn good.

I have 3 vessels going continuously (7.6 G buckets at 6G per batch usually) for going a little over a year now and on temperatures, I’ve lately been allowing cold ferments to happen in 1 of those buckets staying around my basement temp of 15.5C. The slower ferment (2-3 weeks versus 3-5days) seems to be creating an interesting set of esters. For now I’m keeping those separate to see how they develop, but will add into my solera at some point. So basically you can ferment lower temps, but it’s VERY slow.
I just read an article about the dangers of drinking that scared the crap out of me.

That’s it. No more reading!
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Re: To much molasses maybe?

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Captn Jack wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 10:04 am I am doing s rum wash with 100% molasses, the kind you get at a farm feed store. I KIND of followed a recipe, but then again didn't. It called for 8Lt or 2.11 gal of molasses. with around 6.5 gals of water. Which is around 8gal. total. I wanted to make at least 10 gals if washed. So I added about 4.5 gallons of molasses to 10 gals of warm and hot water. Waited till it got to around 90deg and added the bread yeast 5 paks. I have it in a 30-gal sealed fermentor with a bubbler.
So far I am not getting any CO2 in the bubbler. When I opened it to have a look it is covered with fermentation very small bubbles. I was thinking, should it not be bubbling violently? And kind of just was wondering if it is possible I have too much molasses in the mix. If so I was going to add 3 more gallons of water. My reading is around 1.155.
What brand molasses did you use? Is the gravity changing at all (how did you measure it.) . Can you check ph? How old was the yeast you used?
I just read an article about the dangers of drinking that scared the crap out of me.

That’s it. No more reading!
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Re: To much molasses maybe?

Post by Captn Jack »

Had another look today and there are an array of big small and tiny bubbles on top of the wash and it is covered with them so it looks like it is working right. I actually stood there with a flashlight and watch the bubble come up. I tasted it and it is not as sweet as it was, I look at my hydrometer again at the mark where it was when I tested it and was 1.150. The hydrometer I have goes from .990 to 1.160 I even went back to George's site and went over hydrometer readings LOL. I also did the vitamin B and Epsom salt the PH was at 5.0 and the molasses are from a farm feed store very thick. I am keeping the ferment temp at 88 deg. Going to let it sit for a week and see how it goes before I do anything. Thanks for the help everyone :clap:
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Re: To much molasses maybe?

Post by Sporacle »

My advice for all mollases Captn, stick to the correct ratios and replace the hydrometer with your finger.
Does it taste dry? Can I see it bubbling? Can I hear it fizzing? :thumbup:
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Re: To much molasses maybe?

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Sporacle wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 12:04 pm stick to the correct ratios and replace the hydrometer with your finger.
Does it taste dry? Can I see it bubbling? Can I hear it fizzing?
:thumbup: You've discovered just how complicated it really is Sporical.
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Re: To much molasses maybe?

Post by Chucker »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 3:37 pm
Chucker wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 2:47 pm Took off like a rocket and then still fizzed for nearly 6 weeks.
6 weeks seems like an awfully long time, but as long as it ended well no harm done.
Depending on time of year "temp" mine are often done in 4-5 days.....8-9 at very most.....I let them sit a bit after that.
I can only presume that your in a cold country and the colder conditions are slowing yours down.
Mine never get any artificial heat.
Yeah, if I get a good start in the season it gets pretty cool at night. I wrap the fermenter but other than that it’s ambient temps. As long as it’s actively working and the end result is there, it really doesn’t matter. Who knows, maybe there’s a bit of preservative in the molly that inhibits things. It is a food grade, unsulfured blackstrap obtained from a restaurant supply place. Maybe my ph is out of ideal range or something? As long as it was still working I just let it be.
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