How do you decide when to blend feints?

[Steve Broady]

This is for the folks who either add feints into a fresh run, or who like to make an all feints run. How do you decide whether one particular batch of feints is right to add? Do you judge it by the character of the hearts cut that it is associated with? Taste the feints and judge them on their own? Or just figure that it fits in a given category/recipe, so in it goes?

The reason I’m asking is that I have some feints from an apple brandy which I mildly scorched. I ended up running the brandy anyway, and I’ve found that the scorch is adding a scotch-like quality to the brandy which is interesting and not unpleasant. I have no intention of trying to duplicate that, and I’m not sure I want that flavor in more brandy going forward because I really want the fruit to shine more.

That leaves me with these feints and no clear idea of what to do with them. In theory, I could try just running them on their own and pulling a tiny bit more out, but that seems a bit pointless. I was considering adding them into a whiskey, possibly an all feints run, with the thought that it might give a very subtle scotch-like character to the resulting whiskey. I’ve done that with a batch of whiskey which I scorched, adding it to a bunch of samples of scotch which I didn’t care for and re-running the whole thing, making a “scotch” which I like far better than any of the things that went in.

Another option could be to just use it in a sac run, since I have another boiler under construction, but I’d hate to waste something special. I just don’t know how to decide if it’s special in a good way or special in an eating paste kind of way.

I’m not asking to be told what to do. I’d just like to hear the opinions/practices of those who’ve been there. Have you ever had a unique, unusual, or questionable batch of feints and had to decide how best to use it, if at all? And of course, if you have an opinion or advice on my specific situation, I’m happy to hear it.

[MooseMan]

I have no experience in this whatsoever Steve, but what I can say is that I'm saving up all my feints until I've got enough for a full boiler charge at 40%.
When I do, based on reading forum posts here, I'll be adding Sodium Carbonate and running it through my CCVM setup to scavenge as much extra neutral from it as possible.
The heads from that run will be going into the cleaning/fuel jar.

[rubberduck71]

I save my feints for a spirit of the same (or similar) recipe. That said, I do have a couple corny kegs dedicated to specific styles of feints: neutral, whiskey, tequila, and if I would ever make it -- rum (I'm just not a rum guy).

My boiler is only 8 gal, so if/when a corny gets full-ish (3-4 gal), I'll consider knocking it down to 30% ABV & running it.

The bad side: you'll never be able to replicate it because it's such a mish-mosh of different runs.

[still_stirrin]

Steve,

Do your feints have both heads and tails in it? If it has tails from the scorched run, then there may be some “smoke” in them, as the smoke character is from phenolics produced when burned. Can you smell the smokiness in your feints?

If, on the other hand, the feints are just some accumulated heads, they’ll be estery (fruity) smelling with notes of solvents (acetone and other ketones). Do you smell that? Dip your finger lightly in to them and touch it to your tongue. How do they taste? Is it something you’d like to drink?

When I collect feints, I collect both heads and tails, although I keep them in separate jars. And when I rerun them, I will combine them and run them through the reflux still to a high purity. I usually collect into small jars (200-375ml) so I can separate anything good on the feints run. What I cut out then, becomes cleaner fluid and what isn’t worth keeping from the backend goes down the drain.

Does this help you? It’s my opinion and I didn’t tell you what to do, just like you asked.
ss

[zed255]

I do one of two things, either recycle my feints into like products or save for an all feints run.

My rum feints are always recycled into a new rum, either included with stripping runs or the spirit run. Usually the heads and high ABV tails are re-run with the last strip, which generates excess low wines. Those low wines are saved until there is enough for a spirit run. The low ABV tails, per Pugirum, are included with the regular low wines' spirit run and re collected.

Otherwise much of what I do is just trying out different things. The feints, and sometimes the whole shot if I wasn't impressed, are collected together and run through the reflux setup when there is a full boiler charge. Often the result of that is not totally neutral but interesting all the same and is just kept and used where it's flavour works, often as a base for gin.

[Dr Griz]

Like some other folks, I often toss my feints into similar low-wines -- this works particularly well when I'm making another batch of the same mash bill.

For me, the nifty thing is when I have an outlier like your smoky brandy. Some time ago, I ran a disapointing batch of mead, and ended up with an equally disappointing batch of honey shine. But when I tossed its feints into some low wines from a corn mash, holy cow did the honey pop!

It's a great chance to experiment. But, like Rubberduck says, it doesn't always give you something replicable.

[lest1]

Like some other folks, I often toss my feints into similar low-wines -- this works particularly well when I'm making another batch of the same mash bill.

For me, the nifty thing is when I have an outlier like your smoky brandy. Some time ago, I ran a disapointing batch of mead, and ended up with an equally disappointing batch of honey shine. But when I tossed its feints into some low wines from a corn mash, holy cow did the honey pop!

It's a great chance to experiment. But, like Rubberduck says, it doesn't always give you something replicable.

do you think letting your spirits just sit would have given you the result how long do you leave for the ferment?

[Dr Griz]

do you think letting your spirits just sit would have given you the result how long do you leave for the ferment?

As to the first question, I think that feints can concentrate flavors that would otherwise rest in the heads and tails, and allow them to get expressed in the hearts cut of an all-feints run. At least, that's what I think, since I can detect the flavor characters I get in my feint runs in the original heads and tails of my prior spirit run.

As to the second question, I know that some folks advocate letting your wash (especially brandy) age before running it, but I'm not sure what role that might play in feints.

[sadie33]

sorry to steal your thread Steve, but I have a ? about this too.

When adding say whiskey feints to a whiskey run, is there a % you don't want to go over of feints to LW?

[Sporacle]

sorry to steal your thread Steve, but I have a ? about this too.

When adding say whiskey feints to a whiskey run, is there a % you don't want to go over of feints to LW?

If you are running just low wines then you would be around the 25 to 30 abv, so no more feints that would take you over 40abv.
Generally I use it as a batch thing and mind you this is on a 1.5 run on a 4 inch plate, the feints from the previous run which is around 5 to 6 litres gets combined with 18 to 20 litres of strip and about 40 litres of wash.

As my recipe is the same for the two main things I make, the feints from the previous run go back into the next spirit run.
Someone far more experienced than me will help out, but my feints volume remains pretty constant over a number of runs.
I don't know how or why it works that way, in my head it should increase. I just accept that and move on

[jonnys_spirit]

sorry to steal your thread Steve, but I have a ? about this too.

When adding say whiskey feints to a whiskey run, is there a % you don't want to go over of feints to LW?

If you are running just low wines then you would be around the 25 to 30 abv, so no more feints that would take you over 40abv.
Generally I use it as a batch thing and mind you this is on a 1.5 run on a 4 inch plate, the feints from the previous run which is around 5 to 6 litres gets combined with 18 to 20 litres of strip and about 40 litres of wash.

As my recipe is the same for the two main things I make, the feints from the previous run go back into the next spirit run.
Someone far more experienced than me will help out, but my feints volume remains pretty constant over a number of runs.
I don't know how or why it works that way, in my head it should increase. I just accept that and move on

This is typical for what I do for bourbons - Not that it's correct or the right way to do it but I have put a little thought into it and I like the process because it allows me to do a spirit run after two strips and since I'm recycling a feints cut I'm not wasting good alcohol.

Generational Spirit Run - 16g boiler capacity:
2x LW stripping runs down to 25-35%abv - 10-12 gallons total
1x Feints cut (not sure of the ABV but i'll measure next time) - 2-3 gallons
1x fresh fermented beer - top up..

*** Fenits cut is late heads and all tails that I stripped after the last spirit run.
*** Low wines are stripped to a volume depending on how much feints and fresh beer I have to contribute ot the spirit run - this ends up being in the 25-35%abv range.

*** *** I also save 5-10 gallons of backset from each series of AG bourbon strips to add to next bourbon mash.

I'll cut early heads and late tails out of my feints cut because I don't want them to build up too much over subsequent runs where I always recycle some feints. I don't have a particular number or metric so I eyeball that feints cut and make it be total 2-3 gallons which would be a good volume to augment my next spirit run. It may be months between eg; bourbon runs so I thrown a few charred oak fingers into the feints jug too for fun...

A 100% LW spirit run would probably provide more ETOH but I like the idea of continuously recycling both feints and backset for my bourbons I'll switch it up one day too and have done it that way in the past!

Cheers,
jonny

[Sporacle]

I'll cut early heads and late tails out of my feints cut because I don't want them to build up too much

I forgot about that, I take a very generous cut at the start of my run straight to the cleaner jar.

It makes life easy when you get a system down.
Day 1
Take 60 litres of rum wash and transfer to 3 buckets
Day 2
Transfer, strip and reserve 15 litres of dunder
Day 3
Add remaining 40 litres of wash, strip and previous batch feints.
Spirit run
Add 30L of molly to fermentor top up and repeat

[jonnys_spirit]

I'll cut early heads and late tails out of my feints cut because I don't want them to build up too much

I forgot about that, I take a very generous cut at the start of my run straight to the cleaner jar.

It makes life easy when you get a system down.
Day 1
Take 60 litres of rum wash and transfer to 3 buckets
Day 2
Transfer, strip and reserve 15 litres of dunder
Day 3
Add remaining 40 litres of wash, strip and previous batch feints.
Spirit run
Add 30L of molly to fermentor top up and repeat

The cleaner/solvent jar is important lol! Gotta keep those full too

I enjoy the multigenerational system but you end up with more jars/carboys/buckets as you produce different spirits and want to keep backset, dunder, feints for everything! And lighter fluid but that's a blend from all fores/early heads cuts

Cheers,
j

[sadie33]

okay, this is all great information...
What I'm trying to do is get my HBB spirit run with a 4 gal charge.

I have done my last ferment for the season and I have:

2 gal of whiskey feints (from mostly UJSSM, and a sweet feed)
1 gal HBB LW
and about 4 gal of HBB beer I just racked off

Dang I need a bigger still...How would you guys run this?

[Sporacle]

4 options
1. Strip the HBB beer and combine everything to one run
2. Strip 3 gallons of HBB beer, combine HBB low wines and remaining gallon of beer, leave feints for later
3. Do two runs, one with 2 gallons feints and 1.5 gallons of beer the other with 1 gallon low wines and 2.5 gallons of beer.
4. Use option 2 feints combined with existing feints for another all feints run

I'd go option 2, keep the all grain theme going and use the feints for a UJ spirit run next season

[jonnys_spirit]

I can see keeping it all AG where possible. I can also see stripping the HBB and chucking it all into the boiler for a spirit run to make something unique that i’m sure will also be very enjoyable.

Don’t you have a five gallon boiler? You might be able to HBB beer to top up closer to 5g.

I think the sweet feed feints would add a little bit of the molasses flavor that would pair well in any case.

Welcome to the rabbit hole lol and I suspect that you well laid plans for next season will take a few fun and maybe unexpected side trips

Whatever you decide we want to hear about it and what y’all enjoy about it..

Cheers,
-j

[sadie33]

4 options
1. Strip the HBB beer and combine everything to one run
2. Strip 3 gallons of HBB beer, combine HBB low wines and remaining gallon of beer, leave feints for later
3. Do two runs, one with 2 gallons feints and 1.5 gallons of beer the other with 1 gallon low wines and 2.5 gallons of beer.
4. Use option 2 feints combined with existing feints for another all feints run

I'd go option 2, keep the all grain theme going and use the feints for a UJ spirit run next season

#1 was my first thought, but that would almost be 50/50 feints to LW which is what led me to my ? in the first place.

#2 crossed my mind and I was debating between 1 and 2. This is my first HBB and I wanted to try it with just the HBB, if that makes sense.

thanks!!

[sadie33]

I can see keeping it all AG where possible. I can also see stripping the HBB and chucking it all into the boiler for a spirit run to make something unique that i’m sure will also be very enjoyable.

Don’t you have a five gallon boiler? You might be able to HBB beer to top up closer to 5g.

I think the sweet feed feints would add a little bit of the molasses flavor that would pair well in any case.

Welcome to the rabbit hole lol and I suspect that you well laid plans for next season will take a few fun and maybe unexpected side trips

Whatever you decide we want to hear about it and what y’all enjoy about it..

Cheers,
-j

I do have a 5 gallon pot, the most I have put in it is 4 gal. I think if I were to put 5 gal, I would be 1" from the top, which I don't think is enough room. I had a small puke once and started adding butter and haven't had a puke since.

I was thinking the sweet feed might add a nice touch, but I think I want to go all HBB; saving the feints from this run and then maybe next season (or even this season) do an all whiskey feints run.

I can't wait till next year. I learned so much already. When I look over my old post I laugh at myself. But I guess you don't know what you don't know.

thanks!!