CCVM coil help, finished with pics

Vapor, Liquid or Cooling Management. Flutes, plates, etc.

Moderator: Site Moderator

Post Reply
Sailman
Swill Maker
Posts: 448
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:02 am

CCVM coil help, finished with pics

Post by Sailman »

Well I think I'm gonna start on my reflex coil for my CCVM. I have settled on a double wound copper quarter inch diameter coil.. I already have some sections of 2" made up but I have a question about what length would be better above the tee. I already have a piece that is 6 3/8" long but I'm wondering if that's gonna be too long to run an 8" long coil. I also have a short piece of pipe that I could make a shorter piece if that would work better. Which one would you suggest? I want the pipeline up to support the supply and return end but not so long that I waste tubing. The plan is to make the coil to fit the stainless steel fittings and then use copper mesh to take up the difference between the fitting and the top are tube diameter.
Attachments
20230304_094255.jpg
20230304_094245.jpg
Last edited by Sailman on Sat Mar 04, 2023 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Stonecutter
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1911
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:40 pm
Location: Somewhere within the Milkyway

Re: CCVM coil help

Post by Stonecutter »

You’ll want to go about 1/2” to 1” below your tee with the coil.
I’ve got an 8” coil for my 2” CCVM rig and it knocks down everything I’ve thrown at it with no problem. I’ve not ventured far down the Neutral rabbit hole hopefully someone with more experience will chime in.
Attachments
0620DE1B-3978-4483-84BD-EC0FE29CF266.jpeg
Freedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing.
-Thomas Paine
Sporacle
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1149
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:45 pm

Re: CCVM coil help

Post by Sporacle »

Take the length of the wound section of your RC then measure that distance plus one inch from the top the take off opening then add another inch, so for a 8 inch wound coil, so 10 inches above the top of the take off thats for the height, use Stoneys advice for the depth .
Personally I would go longer arms rather than the absolute minimum just make the inlet and outlet arms on the rc a bit longer it's cheaper than 2 inch.
Good luck.
" you can pick your nose and you can pick your friends; but you can't always wipe your friends off on your saddle" sage advice from Kinky Friedman
User avatar
Bushman
Admin
Posts: 17988
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:29 am
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: CCVM coil help

Post by Bushman »

I haven’t made a coil for CCVM reflux condenser but back when I was running my VM still I wound a lot of coils for members. How are you planning to wind the coil?
Sailman
Swill Maker
Posts: 448
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:02 am

Re: CCVM coil help

Post by Sailman »

The plan was to follow HookLine's PDF file. Which was to wrap the inner coil around a length of pipe and then slide another piece of pipe around that and wind the outer coil. A few months back I had planned on doing this and somehow got side tracked and it didn't get done. At that time I had already went and purchased what I thought was everything that I needed. What I got many months ago was a 1/2 inch piece of copper pipe to use for the inner coil and a 1 1/2 inch piece of PVC to slide over all of that for the outer coil. Well I didn't take an account the thickness of the PVC and it wouldn't slide on. What I wound up doing was splitting the PVC down the length to make it so it could spread apart and slide on, It actually worked in my favor because it made the PB CA little larger which in turn made the outer coil larger.
Sailman
Swill Maker
Posts: 448
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:02 am

Re: CCVM coil help

Post by Sailman »

I don't think I did too bad for my 1st condenser coil. The coil is about 8" long and I left the tails 12" or longer. I tried using the Spring binder with no salt or anything in the tubing to start with and that didn't go over very well. So I packed the tubing with fine sea salt and everything worked out well after that. The only thing left is to figure out what I'm I doing for the water supply connections and a valve to run it.
Attachments
20230304_165601.jpg
20230304_165523.jpg
Sailman
Swill Maker
Posts: 448
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:02 am

Re: CCVM coil help

Post by Sailman »

I think just a little bit of fiddling with the coil placement inside the outer coil and everything will be good.
Attachments
20230304_170248.jpg
20230304_170205.jpg
User avatar
Stonecutter
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1911
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:40 pm
Location: Somewhere within the Milkyway

Re: CCVM coil help, finished with pics

Post by Stonecutter »

Looks great man. Ought to serve you well
Freedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing.
-Thomas Paine
User avatar
Yummyrum
Global moderator
Posts: 7653
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:23 am
Location: Fraser Coast QLD Aussie

Re: CCVM coil help, finished with pics

Post by Yummyrum »

That's a great coil you've made there Sailman
juana_b
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 577
Joined: Sat May 01, 2021 11:55 am
Location: Hawaii

Re: CCVM coil help, finished with pics

Post by juana_b »

Nice job. That's a beautiful coil.
Seeing that slight curve, you should've switched hands in high school though. :lol:
“Awards are merely the badges of mediocrity.”
― Charles Ives
kimbodious
Distiller
Posts: 1198
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:57 pm
Location: Far northern tropics of Australia.

Re: CCVM coil help, finished with pics

Post by kimbodious »

Wow, brilliant job winding the coils!
Consider 3/4” triclamp ferrules for your water connections.
--
50L Beer keg boiler, 2200W element
Modular 2" Pot Still
opinions are free and everybody has them, experience costs you time
Sailman
Swill Maker
Posts: 448
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:02 am

Re: CCVM coil help, finished with pics

Post by Sailman »

juana_b wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2023 2:26 pm Nice job. That's a beautiful coil.
Seeing that slight curve, you should've switched hands in high school though. :lol:
LOL
Sporacle
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1149
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:45 pm

Re: CCVM coil help, finished with pics

Post by Sporacle »

Sailman wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2023 2:00 pm The only thing left is to figure out what I'm I doing for the water supply connections and a valve to run it.
Use Kimbos advice for the water supply and use the simplest valve you can find, I use a garden hose on/off valve, because technically the RC is your valve :thumbup:
Nicely wound
" you can pick your nose and you can pick your friends; but you can't always wipe your friends off on your saddle" sage advice from Kinky Friedman
User avatar
Yummyrum
Global moderator
Posts: 7653
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:23 am
Location: Fraser Coast QLD Aussie

Re: CCVM coil help

Post by Yummyrum »

Sailman wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2023 2:00 pm only thing left is to figure out what I'm I doing for the water supply connections and a valve to run it.
Depending on what pressure you have , you may not need a valve .
On my 2” VM ,I use a 300w submersible pump and its just connected up with no valve . The flow through over 5metres of 1/4” is enough to not need any further flow reduction to achieve just enough and a safety margin of RC cooling .

Admittedly , your coil is very well formed with no deformed ( flat bits ) so you may get a bit more flow than mine .

If your on town water , sure you’ll need a valve . I agree with Sporicle , you won’t need anything fancy .

Also , don’t worry about splitting water lines to PCs and RCs .

Just connect them in series . In the PC then out to RC .

Remember , the RC will be doing 10-20 times the work of the PC . So if you have a PC that is a Shotty or the likes , it will be having a holiday compared to the RC
MooseMan
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1186
Joined: Fri May 28, 2021 4:54 am
Location: Wales UK

Re: CCVM coil help, finished with pics

Post by MooseMan »

Very nice job on the winding Sailman, that's a cracker of a coil and will do everything you need.

It if helps at all, what I did when I made mine was used push fits on the tails. Very neat, very safe and secure, and super quick and easy to set up and break down.

I run 10mm push fit tubing with a 12v pump that's intended for boat bilges.
Make Booze, not War!
Sailman
Swill Maker
Posts: 448
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:02 am

Re: CCVM coil help

Post by Sailman »

Yummyrum wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2023 9:25 pm
Sailman wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2023 2:00 pm only thing left is to figure out what I'm I doing for the water supply connections and a valve to run it.
Depending on what pressure you have , you may not need a valve .
On my 2” VM ,I use a 300w submersible pump and its just connected up with no valve . The flow through over 5metres of 1/4” is enough to not need any further flow reduction to achieve just enough and a safety margin of RC cooling .

Admittedly , your coil is very well formed with no deformed ( flat bits ) so you may get a bit more flow than mine .

If your on town water , sure you’ll need a valve . I agree with Sporicle , you won’t need anything fancy .

Also , don’t worry about splitting water lines to PCs and RCs .

Just connect them in series . In the PC then out to RC .

Remember , the RC will be doing 10-20 times the work of the PC . So if you have a PC that is a Shotty or the likes , it will be having a holiday compared to the RC
Alright a little background on my set up, It's a 2" modular with a 2" shotgun condenser. All of my coolant water will be coming from the tap which is well water. I am unsure of the pressure. I can adjust the flow at the tap for the PC (just slightly open). My PC has a ball valve on the discharge side. I rarely use this because I can adjust the flow at the tap. So if I understand you correctly I come off of the discharge on the PC and Run A-line to the RC and then discharge from the system completely? Don't get on me too bad because I know I need to do the research and I am willing to do that. My plan for the day is to read again Dad300's post on CCVM
Attachments
IMG_20200401_154416.jpg
User avatar
elbono
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 610
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:05 pm
Location: Middle Tennessee, USA

Re: CCVM coil help

Post by elbono »

Sailman wrote: Sun Mar 05, 2023 5:17 am
I come off of the discharge on the PC and Run A-line to the RC and then discharge from the system completely? Don't get on me too bad because I know I need to do the research and I am willing to do that.
That's the way I run mine, water into PC, from PC to RC, RC out to drain, adjust flow at input to PC to make output from RC very warm but not uncomfortable to touch. Dad300 calls this 130F IIRC.

Don't forget to have some slack in the RC lines so you can move it.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!
Sailman
Swill Maker
Posts: 448
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:02 am

Re: CCVM coil help

Post by Sailman »

elbono wrote: Sun Mar 05, 2023 6:47 am
Sailman wrote: Sun Mar 05, 2023 5:17 am
I come off of the discharge on the PC and Run A-line to the RC and then discharge from the system completely? Don't get on me too bad because I know I need to do the research and I am willing to do that.
That's the way I run mine, water into PC, from PC to RC, RC out to drain, adjust flow at input to PC to make output from RC very warm but not uncomfortable to touch. Dad300 calls this 130F IIRC.

Don't forget to have some slack in the RC lines so you can move it.
The 1st 2 pages of Dad300's post have answered most of my questions. Thanks for the reply.
User avatar
Deplorable
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 3984
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:10 pm
Location: In the East, (IYKYK)

Re: CCVM coil help, finished with pics

Post by Deplorable »

I cool off of city water supply, and I kinda went against the grain.
I built a water manifold with some 3/4 pipe a couple of 3/4x3/4x1/2 tees and some gate valves.
Water from the main comes in through a 3/4" gate valve, and feeds two 1/2" gate valves. One for the RC and one for the PC. I adjust each valve independently to maximize efficiency.
I use JG push connect fittings on my condensers with 1/4" ID water lines and have plenty of water flow with no fiddling.
the discharge lines feed into a bucket so I can see what the flow rate is and monitor the temperature of the discharge water before it heads down the drain.

I have to say, thats a very nice coil for a first attempt.
Fear and ridicule are the tactics of weak-minded cowards and tyrants who have no other leadership talent from which to draw in order to persuade.
Sailman
Swill Maker
Posts: 448
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:02 am

Re: CCVM coil help, finished with pics

Post by Sailman »

I picked up the last pieces of the puzzle this morning. At least I hope I did. I couldn't find John guest fittings so I used shark bite. Does anyone see any problems with using Polyethlene tubing? It's not going to be in the vapor path.
Attachments
20230306_113536.jpg
20230306_112828.jpg
20230306_090328.jpg
MooseMan
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1186
Joined: Fri May 28, 2021 4:54 am
Location: Wales UK

Re: CCVM coil help, finished with pics

Post by MooseMan »

Those push fits will work nicely mate, and any tubing pretty much is fine as long as the water temp is not getting super hot.

Look forward to hearing about your runs with it!
Make Booze, not War!
Wildcats
Distiller
Posts: 1541
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2023 5:12 pm
Location: Kentucky

Re: CCVM coil help, finished with pics

Post by Wildcats »

Looks great. Should serve you well.
Sailman
Swill Maker
Posts: 448
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:02 am

Re: CCVM coil help, finished with pics

Post by Sailman »

Just a few more questions and then I think I'm done. Well this morning hooking up the water lines to the condenser and I wanna make sure I have enough line to be able to fully operate the condenser. Is there any reason I would have to raise the condenser pass the 50/50 split in the picture? Other than taking it out for cleaning. And the last question is is there any difference in adding the water inlet to the inside coil versus the outside coil? I've only seen a couple threads where they mention this but they don't go into depth of why they put it on the inside or the outside.
Attachments
20230304_170248.jpg
Movable Reflux Condenser II.png
User avatar
elbono
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 610
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:05 pm
Location: Middle Tennessee, USA

Re: CCVM coil help, finished with pics

Post by elbono »

Raising it above the point in your first pic will have little if any affect, just give yourself a little bit of slack, maybe 1/2", to be sure.

I use a dimroth so there is a considerable difference when I switch which side is in or out. Water going in on the outside of mine means I need a lower position for full reflux because the bottom of the RC is warmer. Your double coil will greatly decrease this effect, you probably won't be able to discern any.

This post has a drawing of a dimroth in a ccvm that will help understand what I'm talking about. Basically the water temp at different parts of the RC are different. If you haven't already, give that thread a look lots of good info.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!
Sailman
Swill Maker
Posts: 448
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:02 am

Re: CCVM coil help, finished with pics

Post by Sailman »

elbono wrote: Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:11 am Raising it above the point in your first pic will have little if any affect, just give yourself a little bit of slack, maybe 1/2", to be sure.

I use a dimroth so there is a considerable difference when I switch which side is in or out. Water going in on the outside of mine means I need a lower position for full reflux because the bottom of the RC is warmer. Your double coil will greatly decrease this effect, you probably won't be able to discern any.

This post has a drawing of a dimroth in a ccvm that will help understand what I'm talking about. Basically the water temp at different parts of the RC are different. If you haven't already, give that thread a look lots of good info.
Thanks for the link and the reply. I missed that thread, It explains a lot and describes the operation differently than our read another post.
User avatar
Salt Must Flow
Distiller
Posts: 1920
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:06 pm
Location: Wuhan China (Novel Coronavirus Laboratory)

Re: CCVM coil help, finished with pics

Post by Salt Must Flow »

I used to use Polyethylene tubing and it worked fine up until it was exposed to water that was too hot. It happens even if by accident. It melted a connection so I switched to Polypropylene tubing and never had an issue ever since. Google search 'polyethylene max temp' and also search 'polypropylene max temp'. Polypropylene has much higher temp resistance. I ordered it on Amazon.

I started out using 1/4" OD tubing and it worked perfectly fine for my shotgun condenser stripping at 5500W. It also worked fine for my reflux condenser during spirit runs. I later upgraded to 1/4" ID tubing for one of my shotgun condensers when stripping at 11000W because 1/4" OD tubing couldn't provide enough water flow (I'm on well water). 1/4" ID tubing will provide enough flow for just about anything you'll ever need.

JG and Sharkbite fittings are polypropylene so there's no issues using those fittings. I use JG/Sharkbite fittings for all my water tubing needs.
User avatar
CaptMorgan
Bootlegger
Posts: 136
Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2015 5:52 am
Location: Midwest USA

Re: CCVM coil help, finished with pics

Post by CaptMorgan »

Beautiful coil sailman! I have a single wound of 1/4" copper tubing abouth 9" long for my 2" bokakob. It knocks down everything i need it to. No experience running a CCVM. I just used some vinyl tubing forced onto to my copper tubing inlet. I have a hdpe tubing outlet with a sharkbite valve to control my water flow. Depending on a stripping or spirit run, water temp, my flow is a gallon in anywhere from 5 to 11 minutes. I make some pretty good neutral using teddysads fast fermenting vodka in the tried and true section. Good luck in your CCVM journey!
Lord, give me patience, but give it to me NOW!

2" x 38" Bokakob column head, 15 gallon keg boiler
Post Reply