Long Liebig for stripping setup

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MooseMan
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Long Liebig for stripping setup

Post by MooseMan »

Hi all

So, during conversations with guys who have vastly more experience than me in this hobby, through my previous thread about considering a shotgun build, I got gently nudged in the direction of building a Liebig for my stripping runs before committing to the complex and more involved shotgun build.

So rather than confuse my own thread I'm putting this one up just to show what I did with what I had available.

I went with 28mm over 22mm as that seemed to be the best option with what materials I have and also provided me with a really easy way to join the condenser directly to an odd 1" tri-clamp fitting that I have, to join to the riser.

I went long, 1400mm vapour tube and 1150mm outer jacket, I didn't add any wire spiral as a turbulator or any crimps, I wanted to see what a simple, straight 3mm water jacket can do.

I will make a vapour path insert though to agitate the vapour at the input end of the Liebig. When I picture what's going on in there, it seems obvious that for maximum vapour to jacket contact, there's a need to upset the vapour and make it travel a torturous path, to prevent it from traveling down the tube in an unhindered, direct flow.

If it turns out that I need a turbulator in the water path as well, I'll just sweat one end off and add one at a later date.
I'm probably going to get schooled for this (Which I welcome here, of course) but the way I see it, the longer the water jacket and the slower the water exchange within, the less effective a turbulator would be?
At high water velocity I totally get it, but at super slow flow rates, I don't understand how a spiral of wire can make a great deal of difference?

Anyway, on to the build.
It probably took me longer to clean up the dirty tubing and square the ends than anything else, as it was all rescued plumbing lengths.
IMG_20230325_111631_265~2.jpg
28mm to 22mm reducing tee, 2 of these was my only purchase for the build.
IMG_20230325_111705_891.jpg
Filed off the stop ridge in the 22mm side so that the tube can go right through.
IMG_20230325_113645_766~2.jpg
Water connection fittings
IMG_20230325_113712_124.jpg
Assembled
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Re: Long Liebig for stripping setup

Post by MooseMan »

IMG_20230325_125913_001~2.jpg
Soldered up
IMG_20230325_125708_935~2.jpg
Full hose pressure
IMG_20230325_123655_727.jpg
I rescued this fitting at work, it's half of a stainless steel valve system that failed, so I kept the Tri clamp half as I knew I would find a use for it!
I sanded and polished the 22mm copper until it was an interference fit right through the fitting. It's very inelegant and looks odd due to the sudden change in diameter, but it's an excellent way to get me into the riser!
IMG_20230325_125701_191.jpg
Water connection 10mm push fit same as I use for my CCVM on RC and Dimroth PC.
I really like these as they are super convenient, very reliable and come in every size.
IMG_20230325_125918_265~2.jpg
And that's it complete.
Went really easy, no issues at all and using the fittings that I had, there was no tricky soldering at all.
The reducing tee option does make the job easier but it's not at all necessary, I just used them as I had nothing else to buy and it suited all the other fittings that I was going to use.
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Re: Long Liebig for stripping setup

Post by Yummyrum »

Well done Moose , that’ll do you well

May I suggest a tap/ valve in the outlet to allow local flow control .

Before I added one , I was always running back and forth to the forcet to adjust . One should screw inline with your John Guest adaptor
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Re: Long Liebig for stripping setup

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Yummyrum wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 2:09 am Well done Moose , that’ll do you well

May I suggest a tap/ valve in the outlet to allow local flow control .

Before I added one , I was always running back and forth to the forcet to adjust . One should screw inline with your John Guest adaptor
Thanks Yummyrum I'm looking forward to a clean run to see what it can do.

And thank you for the local control suggestion, that didn't even get on my radar, despite the fact I've got several different valves I could use! None of them are fine control though, so I'll have a play around with what's best one before I run.

I too, would have been in and out of the garage messing with the outside tap to get it right...
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Re: Long Liebig for stripping setup

Post by zed255 »

I find coarse control is fine when stripping, but finer control is nice on a spirit run. I got an RV (caravan in the UK?) adjustable water pressure regulator to feed low pressure water to my setup. At 10-15psi a cheap 'needle' valve works so much better than at full municipal supply pressure.
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Re: Long Liebig for stripping setup

Post by 8Ball »

Yummyrum wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 2:09 am Well done Moose , that’ll do you well

May I suggest a tap/ valve in the outlet to allow local flow control .

Before I added one , I was always running back and forth to the forcet to adjust . One should screw inline with your John Guest adaptor
+1
I was running back and forth to the faucet too. I put a $5 inline shut off valve on my garden hose that works well for our purposes.
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Re: Long Liebig for stripping setup

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zed255 wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 5:19 am I find coarse control is fine when stripping, but finer control is nice on a spirit run. I got an RV (caravan in the UK?) adjustable water pressure regulator to feed low pressure water to my setup. At 10-15psi a cheap 'needle' valve works so much better than at full municipal supply pressure.
Well that's really good to know zed, as I will only be using this as a stripper and going back to my Dimroth in 2.5" on the spirit runs.
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Re: Long Liebig for stripping setup

Post by Salt Must Flow »

When I made my first product condenser it was a Liebig too, but mine was a little over 4' long. Yours should have more knockdown power. I used reducer tees too because for me, sweat joints were easier to solder than other methods. I didn't use a copper spiral inside the water jacket either.

I know everyone does things differently, but I preferred to have a push connect 90 elbow on the water inlet side of the Liebig pointing toward the vapor inlet end of the Liebig. That allowed the water line to be out of the way of the collection area. I always have my water lines running over toward the boiler, I use Velcro straps to secure the lines up along the riser and then the lines lead down along the Liebig.
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Re: Long Liebig for stripping setup

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Salt Must Flow wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 6:58 am When I made my first product condenser it was a Liebig too, but mine was a little over 4' long. Yours should have more knockdown power. I used reducer tees too because for me, sweat joints were easier to solder than other methods. I didn't use a copper spiral inside the water jacket either.

I know everyone does things differently, but I preferred to have a push connect 90 elbow on the water inlet side of the Liebig pointing toward the vapor inlet end of the Liebig. That allowed the water line to be out of the way of the collection area. I always have my water lines running over toward the boiler, I use Velcro straps to secure the lines up along the riser and then the lines lead down along the Liebig.
Wow, again it's the simple stuff that sometimes just passes you by.
Yes a 90 at the water inlet (Product outlet) end would make so much sense as it keeps the water tubing out of the way and neatly routed up along the copper.

I don't have any more 10mm pushfit 90s going spare, but I can borrow one from my Dimroth to use for stripping until I get chance to get another one. I'll have a dig through my bag of goodies though and see if there's another way to get that job done, thanks Salt.


It's a Sunday afternoon and I'm sitting here contentedly, sleeping dog in my lap, with a very full belly from a late roast lunch, a couple of glasses of last year's Blackberry and Elderberry wine onboard, thinking "I didn't even know what a Liebig or a Dimroth was 2 years ago!" and here I am, deep in! :clap:
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Re: Long Liebig for stripping setup

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Looking good. :thumbup:
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Re: Long Liebig for stripping setup

Post by Chauncey »

Nice

Make a lil stand to help w the weight
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Re: Long Liebig for stripping setup

Post by MooseMan »

Thanks gents I'm looking forward to giving it a blast on Friday with a water boil.

I've got an old camera tripod somewhere that will support it nicely, just got to find it in the shambles that is my garage.
If not I'll find something to make a leg out of.
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Re: Long Liebig for stripping setup

Post by shadylane »

Eye hooks in the ceiling and hang the condenser with string. :ewink:
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Re: Long Liebig for stripping setup

Post by squigglefunk »

i have a 4ft 3/4" over 1/2" and it has no prob with stripping runs (5-6 gallons in 4 hrs) so I'd imagine you're golden, nice build :thumbup:
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Re: Long Liebig for stripping setup

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squigglefunk wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:59 am i have a 4ft 3/4" over 1/2" and it has no prob with stripping runs (5-6 gallons in 4 hrs) so I'd imagine you're golden, nice build :thumbup:
Thank you, that's given me even more confidence it will get the job done solidly.

The only thing I'm a little unsure of is the best angle to give the most efficiency.
If it's capacity to knock down is higher than my heat input I suppose that's not a problem anyway, but I want to run it only a few degrees off level as that will suit my stilling area?
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Re: Long Liebig for stripping setup

Post by shadylane »

I see your already using SS tri-clamp fittings, so this bit of opinion is late. :lol:
For connecting that sized copper tubing, a copper union is a good option.
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Re: Long Liebig for stripping setup

Post by squigglefunk »

MooseMan wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:52 am If it's capacity to knock down is higher than my heat input I suppose that's not a problem anyway, but I want to run it only a few degrees off level as that will suit my stilling area?
as far as I know the more horizontal you go the better they work? But yeah you want some downhill angle going on for sure.
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Re: Long Liebig for stripping setup

Post by Steve Broady »

MooseMan wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:52 am The only thing I'm a little unsure of is the best angle to give the most efficiency.
If it's capacity to knock down is higher than my heat input I suppose that's not a problem anyway, but I want to run it only a few degrees off level as that will suit my stilling area?
I don’t know about the efficiency, but I have definitely noticed that when running mine nearly horizontal, it’s more prone to huffing. I had to turn the water flow way down to stop it. At a 45 degree angle, it seems much less sensitive. So maybe it’s more efficient when it’s horizontal, cooling TOO well without careful water flow management?
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Re: Long Liebig for stripping setup

Post by MooseMan »

Good to know gents, I'll try it as horizontal as possible at first and see how it behaves, then if I think it needs more angle I'll give it more and see.

I've made a twisted copper blade to sit in the vapour tube at the inlet end, only 200mm long to hopefully disturb the vapour as it hits the condenser and prevent it taking an easy path.
Again I'll try running both with, and without it.
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Re: Long Liebig for stripping setup

Post by Yummyrum »

I usually run mine pretty close to horizontal . Works fine . Huffing can be sorted by tweaking coolant flow .

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Re: Long Liebig for stripping setup

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Yummyrum wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:09 pm I usually run mine pretty close to horizontal . Works fine . Huffing can be sorted by tweaking coolant flow .

Wow!
That's quite a shock to me seeing that Yummyrum, I've never experienced that and didn't realise it was that much of a change in product behaviour based on water flow control.

My only experience so far is with my open shell Dimroth and the small air cooled condenser that I run on gin still, neither of those have ever shown that behaviour at all.
All I've had is evidence of wisps of vapour from both when I've overwhelmed them.

Is this something that only happens with jacketed condensers, or is it a sign that the condenser is in fact more capable than is needed?

Thank you so much for the video by the way, I'm a visual learner so I really appreciate you sharing that with me.
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Re: Long Liebig for stripping setup

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MooseMan wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:49 pm
Yummyrum wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:09 pm I usually run mine pretty close to horizontal . Works fine . Huffing can be sorted by tweaking coolant flow .

Wow!
That's quite a shock to me seeing that Yummyrum, I've never experienced that and didn't realise it was that much of a change in product behaviour based on water flow control.

My only experience so far is with my open shell Dimroth and the small air cooled condenser that I run on gin still, neither of those have ever shown that behaviour at all.
All I've had is evidence of wisps of vapour from both when I've overwhelmed them.

Is this something that only happens with jacketed condensers, or is it a sign that the condenser is in fact more capable than is needed?

Thank you so much for the video by the way, I'm a visual learner so I really appreciate you sharing that with me.

I recently made a 3/4 over 1/2 Liebig. And when doing my cleaning run and then my sacrificial run. I couldn't get it to stop huffing... I had no valve in my cooling line to be able to control my water flow. Had to shut down and address to problem. It takes a very small amount of water . I would've thought the more water the better. Not the case.
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Re: Long Liebig for stripping setup

Post by Saltbush Bill »

It's really not an issue a lot of the time.....it usually starts once the abv in the boiler gets low.
It's easily resolved with water flow control.....any tap will do the job.
Imo Yummys video is an extreme example.....but it does show how bad it can be.
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Re: Long Liebig for stripping setup

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Found a nice small inline valve to go on my return line, tried it today after work and does the job a treat.
IMG_20230329_173306_590.jpg
Had time to do a vinegar clean on the new riser and Liebig today after work. The condenser knocked down a full vinegar boil without even getting warm, but was huffing really noticeably even with a very low water throughput. I could cut the water to a tiny trickle, and get steam out of the end, but still huffing.

Learning from my vinegar clean experience with the CCVM, I dumped the boiler contents, added 10l of fresh water and a litre of feints and got back up to boil.
I switched the water lines around on heat up after realising that I'd got them ass backwards and, immediately it was up to a boil I had a thick, constant stream of stinky feints coming off the spout, with no huffing, a very noticeable temp gradient and using hardly any water.

A success!
If I get the time on the weekend I'll be doing 2x beck to back strips with this!
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Re: Long Liebig for stripping setup

Post by NZChris »

What are the advantages of putting a flow control valve on the return line?

A disadvantage is that it puts all of the fittings and hoses before the valve, including at the hot end, under pressure. There is no convenient time for a failure during a run.

Liebig hose tails or fittings should be angled down so that hoses don't want to kink when they are full.
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Re: Long Liebig for stripping setup

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NZChris wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 11:45 am What are the advantages of putting a flow control valve on the return line?

A disadvantage is that it puts all of the fittings and hoses before the valve, including at the hot end, under pressure. There is no convenient time for a failure during a run.

Liebig hose tails or fittings should be angled down so that hoses don't want to kink when they are full.
The way I understand it Chris, is that restricting the flow out of the shell, will ensure that it's always full of water from end to end, and around the entire diameter. As you say I'm pressurising the outer jacket, fittings and coolant lines.
Whereas if I were to restrict flow into the shell, with such a low input flow I could be allowing water to just take the lowest path along the jacket and never filling it completely around the diameter?

Does that make sense? It does in my head, but that's very often not related to reality!

At the moment I've got the lines going directly vertical down to the floor, where the valve is, but planning to go 90 off the fittings to neaten everything up, as suggested.
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Re: Long Liebig for stripping setup

Post by shadylane »

Having the valve on either end accomplishes the task.
I prefer to have the valve on the cold end of the condenser.

I'd rather touch and adjust something cool, than scalding hot.
Also, if a valve or hose fails while I'm adjusting it.
I'd rather get sprayed with cool water than scalding hot.
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Re: Long Liebig for stripping setup

Post by shadylane »

Yummyrum wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:09 pm I usually run mine pretty close to horizontal . Works fine . Huffing can be sorted by tweaking coolant flow .
Something I've seen while playing around.
The closer a condenser is too horizontal, the more likely it will huff.
A downhill grade lets the liquid quickly drain to make room for incoming vapor.

Having a condenser on an angle also makes it easier to keep the jacket full of cooling water.
Ya want to work with gravity, not against it. :lol:
Last edited by shadylane on Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Long Liebig for stripping setup

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MooseMan wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 8:16 pm
NZChris wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 11:45 am What are the advantages of putting a flow control valve on the return line?

A disadvantage is that it puts all of the fittings and hoses before the valve, including at the hot end, under pressure. There is no convenient time for a failure during a run.

Liebig hose tails or fittings should be angled down so that hoses don't want to kink when they are full.
The way I understand it Chris, is that restricting the flow out of the shell, will ensure that it's always full of water from end to end, and around the entire diameter. As you say I'm pressurising the outer jacket, fittings and coolant lines.
Whereas if I were to restrict flow into the shell, with such a low input flow I could be allowing water to just take the lowest path along the jacket and never filling it completely around the diameter?

Does that make sense? It does in my head, but that's very often not related to reality!

At the moment I've got the lines going directly vertical down to the floor, where the valve is, but planning to go 90 off the fittings to neaten everything up, as suggested.
Air will always accumulate in the top of the jacket unless you do something about it. I put the outlet hose tail at the top of the jacket so that the jacket is always filled to the top with water.
If the outlet is placed underneath the jacket, the water will only fill the jacket to where it overflows into the outlet.
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Re: Long Liebig for stripping setup

Post by shadylane »

NZChris wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:27 pm
Air will always accumulate in the top of the jacket unless you do something about it. I put the outlet hose tail at the top of the jacket so that the jacket is always filled to the top with water.
If the outlet is placed underneath the jacket, the water will only fill the jacket to where it overflows into the outlet.
That's true.
But if the condenser is placed at an angle, jacket will stay full of water due to gravity.
Even with the outlet pointing down, there will be a small bubble of air, but not enough to matter.
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