Raw rice flour Koji

Production methods from starch to sugars.

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Koanmi
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Raw rice flour Koji

Post by Koanmi »

Can you start koji mold on raw rice flour instead of steaming?

I'm following a raw vegan diet so can't cook the rice...
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Re: Raw rice flour Koji

Post by rad14701 »

You "can" cook the rice, and probably "should"... Don't let your self-imposed diet deter your efforts... After all, you won't be eating the koji... And you aren't going to go to hell if you "cheat" a bit... You'll get over it...
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FuelMaker
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Re: Raw rice flour Koji

Post by FuelMaker »

Koanmi wrote:Can you start koji mold on raw rice flour instead of steaming?
I'm following a raw vegan diet so can't cook the rice...
No, the starch in the rice has to be gelatinized - which means the starch grains have taken up water into its molecular structure in a reaction that requires heat to function.

Even ground fine, starch grains are so tightly bound together that the mold can't digest it very well - pretty much might as well be wood flour. Same thing'll happen if a human eats it - it'll mostly pass right through with a small percentage getting broken down by the acids in your stomach and the enzymes in your intestines.

Furthermore aspergillus oryzae (the fungus for koji) requires highly oxygenated conditions to grow, so even if you did steam the flour I'm not sure it'll grow on your flour in anything more than a thin layer on the top vs penetrating the flour. If you heavily corrugate the surface it'll increase the surface area and thus how much mold will grow.

Even if I'n totally wrong and you do get koji mold to grow on raw rice flour (which it might, maybe) you'll still have to cook it so the starch is gelatinized so it can be converted by ther A oryzae enzymes into fermentable sugars.
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Koanmi
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Re: Raw rice flour Koji

Post by Koanmi »

Well thats quite strange since Kooksoondang has apparently been making a rice beer/wine from raw rice since 1952.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kooksoondang" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

It has a unique fermentation method for the brewing of rice wine. Unlike the regular methods of producing rice wine, Kooksoondang grind raw rice with Nuruk (Korean traditional kōji) and brew them without steaming.

The max temp that it can be is 105-118.
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Re: Raw rice flour Koji

Post by FuelMaker »

Interesting, I'd like to know how. Unless they're taking weeks or months to finish the solid state fermentation (SSF) of the rice before the yeast fermentation. I can see the A oryzae enzymes being able to break out sugar from the compacted starch given enough time. But man it'd be slow.

The trouble with a super slow SSF is that all the aspergillus family start making funky toxins on about the 4th day or so. Some (A flavus) are holy-shit toxic.

Go knock yourself out! If you figure it out let us know.
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Mikey-moo
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Re: Raw rice flour Koji

Post by Mikey-moo »

Do you vacuum distill, Koanmi?
Best place to start for newbies - click here - Courtesy of Cranky :-)

If you have used this site to save money by making your own top quality booze at home then please consider donating a couple of dollars to help keep this site running. Cheers!
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Re: Raw rice flour Koji

Post by Swedish Pride »

you can pour boiling water on it and add enzymes, works good.
Adding hot water is not cooking right?
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Re: Raw rice flour Koji

Post by Swedish Pride »

or get this yeast, with enzymes in it
http://www.ebay.com/itm/500g-Alcohol-Ye ... Sw241YdH81" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
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Koanmi
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Re: Raw rice flour Koji

Post by Koanmi »

Mikey-moo wrote:Do you vacuum distill, Koanmi?
I will when I get a still. Now I just use freeze distillation, since alcohol won't freeze
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Re: Raw rice flour Koji

Post by Koanmi »

FuelMaker wrote:Interesting, I'd like to know how. Unless they're taking weeks or months to finish the solid state fermentation (SSF) of the rice before the yeast fermentation. I can see the A oryzae enzymes being able to break out sugar from the compacted starch given enough time. But man it'd be slow.

The trouble with a super slow SSF is that all the aspergillus family start making funky toxins on about the 4th day or so. Some (A flavus) are holy-shit toxic.

Go knock yourself out! If you figure it out let us know.

four days? You've got to be kidding me. I know for secondary fermentation some people go up to three weeks. Although personally I don't agree with that. I use an over abundance of yeast and get it completed in a couple days tops. First and secondary, I use my time wisely...

I'm lookins and it looks like traditionally they used sweet potato or...the saliva of virgins.

Do you know if I can get it too gelintantize at 117 degrees. I tried chewing the solid rice and.....its too hard to chew and not tasty...unlike gelintinaized rice.

They MUST have cooked it at around 117 degrees. I know this is about the temperature for slow cooked korean black garlic. And it has the consistency of Butter or molasses after about 30-40 days.
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Re: Raw rice flour Koji

Post by aircarbonarc »

Koanmi wrote:
Mikey-moo wrote:Do you vacuum distill, Koanmi?
I will when I get a still. Now I just use freeze distillation, since alcohol won't freeze
You must get terrible hangovers
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Re: Raw rice flour Koji

Post by redz242 »

FuelMaker wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:40 pm Interesting, I'd like to know how. Unless they're taking weeks or months to finish the solid state fermentation (SSF) of the rice before the yeast fermentation. I can see the A oryzae enzymes being able to break out sugar from the compacted starch given enough time. But man it'd be slow.

The trouble with a super slow SSF is that all the aspergillus family start making funky toxins on about the 4th day or so. Some (A flavus) are holy-shit toxic.

Go knock yourself out! If you figure it out let us know.

I know this is a old post but this is not true first of all not all spores are alike you can get some spores or create your own from scratch like me and see they are not the same plus the the member stress about nuruk in his post nothing like koji my personal opinion nuruk is a great!!!! Yeast and nothing toxic about them I’ve been cooking drinking amazake on a daily for pre and probiotics.
aircarbonarc wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:46 pm
Koanmi wrote:
Mikey-moo wrote:Do you vacuum distill, Koanmi?
I will when I get a still. Now I just use freeze distillation, since alcohol won't freeze
You must get terrible hangovers
No he will not because rice nor koji create sulfates.
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Re: Raw rice flour Koji

Post by squigglefunk »

Koanmi wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:00 pm Can you start koji mold on raw rice flour instead of steaming?

I'm following a raw vegan diet so can't cook the rice...
yes you can

there are directions for the Yellow Label Angel Yeast "Starter of Liquor Making"

For non-cooking process

1th Processing the raw materials to make the starch come out. (AKA rice flour)

2th Add 0.6-0.8% angel leaven (yellow label) to raw material(For 7kg starch material, add 50-100g angel Leaven)

3th Add 2.5-3.0 times water to the raw material and stir well(For 7kg starch material add water upto 28L)

4th Fermentation at 30℃ for 15-25 days,and the first 36 hours, stir every 12 hours to prevent material precipitation, seal the fermentation after no precipitation when stirred.

5th When the fermentation liquid is calm and free of bubbles, the liquid is pale yellow, the raw material sinks to the bottom of the container and the raw material has no white core, it means the fermentation is ended. We can distillate it to liquor.
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Re: Raw rice flour Koji

Post by redz242 »

squigglefunk wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 6:48 am
Koanmi wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:00 pm Can you start koji mold on raw rice flour instead of steaming?

I'm following a raw vegan diet so can't cook the rice...
yes you can

there are directions for the Yellow Label Angel Yeast "Starter of Liquor Making"

For non-cooking process

1th Processing the raw materials to make the starch come out. (AKA rice flour)

2th Add 0.6-0.8% angel leaven (yellow label) to raw material(For 7kg starch material, add 50-100g angel Leaven)

3th Add 2.5-3.0 times water to the raw material and stir well(For 7kg starch material add water upto 28L)

4th Fermentation at 30℃ for 15-25 days,and the first 36 hours, stir every 12 hours to prevent material precipitation, seal the fermentation after no precipitation when stirred.

5th When the fermentation liquid is calm and free of bubbles, the liquid is pale yellow, the raw material sinks to the bottom of the container and the raw material has no white core, it means the fermentation is ended. We can distillate it to liquor.


That’s not what the question is mister I’m sure if he wanted yellow label he’d say yeast. now the answer yes but no you can use rice flour to spread and feed the mold but using just flour will not give a good result you might have a situation where it’s either too soggy or not enough moisture for the mold to grow and reproduce and for that post some aspergillosis don’t need yeast none of my strains don’t.
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squigglefunk
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Re: Raw rice flour Koji

Post by squigglefunk »

redz242 wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 3:06 am
That’s not what the question is mister I’m sure if he wanted yellow label he’d say yeast.
they do make an angel for rice leaven that has just the kioji mold I believe :wave:
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Re: Raw rice flour Koji

Post by redz242 »

Well they do but not all angel label are the same some has different inoculation. Now angel yeast can some what be cloned I have my own version were it suit my environment and great efficiency.
squigglefunk wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 7:56 am
redz242 wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 3:06 am
That’s not what the question is mister I’m sure if he wanted yellow label he’d say yeast.
they do make an angel for rice leaven that has just the kioji mold I believe :wave:
You can also buy sakè kasu its a easy way also and the yeast has a colony waiting to eat theirs nothing like your own creation soon post my process of my version of angel yeast and lacto-koji yeast (excellent for cheese and fast aging
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squigglefunk
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Re: Raw rice flour Koji

Post by squigglefunk »

redz242 wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 2:41 pm You can also buy sakè kasu its a easy way also and the yeast has a colony waiting to eat theirs nothing like your own creation soon post my process of my version of angel yeast and lacto-koji yeast (excellent for cheese and fast aging
very cool man, looking forward to it
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