? on feed grade molasses

[sadie33]

If you went to 5% on your last stripping run you will have all the alcohol out, or close enough to assume. I don't believe you said what the %abv of your second strip was, just 25% combined. For an example I will say you got 1 gallon of low wines at 25% from your 5 gallon of boiler charge. 25% of a gallon is 4 cups or 1 quart. Since we are assuming you stripped it all out of the boiler that mean the 5 gallons started with 1 quart of alcohol. So the % is 1/(5gal x 4 qt per gal) = 1/20 = 5%. So in this example your ferment ended at 5%.

Now you determine how much molasses you need for your next one by scaling up to down. For example of you wanted to target 8% on your next ferment you would increase the molasses in the recipe by 60% over what you used this time.

I figured out my ABV to be 5.91% after fermentation, though I know everyone said it's not very accurate.

My first ferment was 5 gals. and I did it in two 2 gal strips. The first half I stripped to 30% (total in the vessel), but only ended up with 6 cups. When I did my 2nd strip at some point I decided to add the 6 cups from my first strip in with my second strips collection vessel and strip till the WHOLE 2 batches came out to 25%, that's why I didn't actually mention what my second strip was, it was all combined.

I now understand the math in the first paragraph. So I got 5% on my first ferment and want 8%. that is a 3% difference, so I'm confused why I would do 60% more...

[sadie33]

Use the OG & FG to find out how much alcohol was produced the same as you can for any wash, wine, beer etc., then calculate how much sugar there was in the fermenter.

If you recorded how much molasses you put in the fermenter, you can then work out how much sugar was in it per Kg, lb, Liter, gallon, whatever measurement you were using.

I feel like I should know how to do this, but don't know how...I used my OG & FG and got 5.91% ABV

I had to scale the SB recipe down from 7.1 gal to 5 gal and came up with 1.6 gal of molasses, or 9.5 cups (it was easier to measure in cups).

Is there some mathematical equation that will now tell me how much sugar was in my molasses because I don't know how to figure that.

[NZChris]

There might be, but I'm not a maths teacher, especially when around someone using non-metric weights and volumes.

Roughly speaking, a 10% sugar wash will produce around 5% ABV.

[JustinNZ]

Re: I now understand the math in the first paragraph. So I got 5% on my first ferment and want 8%. that is a 3% difference, so I'm confused why I would do 60% more...

Funnily enough I am a maths teacher and I might just use this on Monday. Maybe changing the context. Anyway, 60% of 5 is the same as 60/100 x 5, which a good calculator will tell you is 3. And 5 + 3 = 8. That’s where the 60% came from.

[NZChris]

That makes no sense to me either. Sometimes it's better to do the math in the morning after a cup of coffee.

[JustinNZ]

Hehe. Sleep well.

[Sporacle]

now understand the math in the first paragraph. So I got 5% on my first ferment and want 8%. that is a 3% difference, so I'm confused why I would do 60% more...

So if the initial amount of mollases say for example is...
1 unit and it yielded 5abv
2 units in the same volume will theoretically yield 10abv

So in order to increase from 5 to 8 you need a unit increase of 1 to 1.6, for mollases volume to the same original ferment volume.

That equates to a 60% increase in volume of mollases.

For my ferments that would mean

10 litres of mollases to 25l of water for a 35l wash
To
16 litres of mollases to 19l of water for a 35l wash
That's a 60% increase.

Sadie
Was the ferment happy?
Is there any problem with just doing another wash and stripping that?

[sadie33]

now understand the math in the first paragraph. So I got 5% on my first ferment and want 8%. that is a 3% difference, so I'm confused why I would do 60% more...

So if the initial amount of mollases say for example is...
1 unit and it yielded 5abv
2 units in the same volume will theoretically yield 10abv

So in order to increase from 5 to 8 you need a unit increase of 1 to 1.6, for mollases volume to the same original ferment volume.

That equates to a 60% increase in volume of mollases.

For my ferments that would mean

10 litres of mollases to 25l of water for a 35l wash
To
16 litres of mollases to 19l of water for a 35l wash
That's a 60% increase.

Sadie
Was the ferment happy?
Is there any problem with just doing another wash and stripping that?

The ferment was happy, but didn't yield very much product. I figured if I increased the sugar, I would increase the yield.

I don't think I will use this molasses again. It is very bitter and doesn't really taste very well. I ended up adding some brown sugar to my last wash. I started with 1/2 a pound. I tried it and it still didn't taste very sweet so I added another 1/2 pound. It tasted a little better, but not much. I didn't want to add more than that, so we'll see what it does. Hopefully I will get a bit more then last time.

[subbrew]

I now understand the math in the first paragraph. So I got 5% on my first ferment and want 8%. that is a 3% difference, so I'm confused why I would do 60% more...

8% is 3% more than 5% in absolute terms but it is 60% in relative terms. i.e % change from 5 to 8, = (8-5)/5 x100 = 60%. So if you want the same change in your fermentables you need to add 60% more

[subbrew]

I had to scale the SB recipe down from 7.1 gal to 5 gal and came up with 1.6 gal of molasses, or 9.5 cups (it was easier to measure in cups).

Is there some mathematical equation that will now tell me how much sugar was in my molasses because I don't know how to figure that.

I think I see a math error. 1.6 gallons = 25.6 cups, 16 cups to the gallon.

Molasses can vary in the sugar content. Fancy has more than black strap but even that will vary between sources. As an approximation you can assume about 40 gravity points per # of molasses. But it is not all fermentable.

[NZChris]

I feel like I should know how to do this, but don't know how...I used my OG & FG and got 5.91% ABV

Don't ask me to explain how to calculate it, but if you want raise the ABV to around 8% by adding more of that molasses, you can do that by increasing the amount of molasses used by 35%.

I haven't noticed 'bitter' as being a VOC that comes over when distilling rum.

Brown sugar is white sugar with a coating of molasses on the crystals. I've never used it, as it is much cheaper to buy molasses and white sugar.

[bilgriss]

As a former secondary math school teacher who was asked dozens of times "when am I ever going to use this?", I deeply regret not telling them each that when they started stillin', they'd need to figure out how much more stuff they needed to add to get good likker, and simple algebraic formulas would get them months faster than trial and error.

[LWTCS]

Thing is,, ya git what you git if the analysis is not available.
The refinery typically doesn't render much lower than 50% sugars.
So if the feed store analysis says 30% sugars its definitely cut. And when its cut there may also be some preservatives added to add to shelf life. 50% blackstrap doesn't need preservatives.
50% blackstrap has an unpleasant metallic like taste. Modern blackstrap makes a heavy rum.
If your molasses tastes like it could be applied to your pancakes, it's going to make a relatively light rum.

Btw, molasses analysis is kind of a joke really.
Frequently the analysis will illustrate the differences between food grade and distillers grade as almost identical. Hence, ya git what you git.

[sadie33]

I now understand the math in the first paragraph. So I got 5% on my first ferment and want 8%. that is a 3% difference, so I'm confused why I would do 60% more...

8% is 3% more than 5% in absolute terms but it is 60% in relative terms. i.e % change from 5 to 8, = (8-5)/5 x100 = 60%. So if you want the same change in your fermentables you need to add 60% more

nope...still don't get it the relative terms...I will try to figure it out. I usually do, just takes me a bit.

[sadie33]

I feel like I should know how to do this, but don't know how...I used my OG & FG and got 5.91% ABV

Don't ask me to explain how to calculate it, but if you want raise the ABV to around 8% by adding more of that molasses, you can do that by increasing the amount of molasses used by 35%.

I haven't noticed 'bitter' as being a VOC that comes over when distilling rum.

Brown sugar is white sugar with a coating of molasses on the crystals. I've never used it, as it is much cheaper to buy molasses and white sugar.

I'm hoping next time I find a better molasses, I didn't really like it at all, but it's what I got. I didn't have any more molasses to add, and around here a bag of brown sugar is WAY cheaper then molasses. (at the grocery store anyway). Luckily I don't taste any of the bitter in my low wines. I'm curious what the brown sugar does to it, I might run it tonight and see. My second wash is done (another 5 gal), third one still fizzing (7.1 gal) the good thing is I used up all that icky molasses

[sadie33]

As a former secondary math school teacher who was asked dozens of times "when am I ever going to use this?", I deeply regret not telling them each that when they started stillin', they'd need to figure out how much more stuff they needed to add to get good likker, and simple algebraic formulas would get them months faster than trial and error.

LOL!!

[8Ball]

I now understand the math in the first paragraph. So I got 5% on my first ferment and want 8%. that is a 3% difference, so I'm confused why I would do 60% more...

You added enough stuff to make yourself a 5% batch. Now you need to figure out how much more stuff to use than the first time so you have an 8% batch. You have to divide 8 by 5 to get your answer: 8/5= 1.6

You need a total of 1.6 times your original amount, which is 60% more.

[sadie33]

You need a total of 1.6 times your original amount, which is 60% more.

THANK YOU!! I fully understand that! NOW I get it.

There was a girl in my high school math class that could explain things easily to me. My teacher would try really hard, but I couldn't get it. He would get so frustrated and finally ask Anne to explain it to me. Just the way she explained it-the light would go on. She would say basically the same thing, but just different enough I got it.

thanks 8Ball

[8Ball]

You need a total of 1.6 times your original amount, which is 60% more.

THANK YOU!! I fully understand that! NOW I get it.

There was a girl in my high school math class that could explain things easily to me. My teacher would try really hard, but I couldn't get it. He would get so frustrated and finally ask Anne to explain it to me. Just the way she explained it-the light would go on. She would say basically the same thing, but just different enough I got it.

thanks 8Ball

Anytime, Sadie. Glad I could help.

[sadie33]

Doing the stripping run now, coming off at 66%, way better then 55%.

I tossed 75 ml fores (I figured 150 for a 5 gal run).

Now I'm wishing I had put more then 1 bag of brown sugar in my 3rd ferment because it was the full 7.1 gal, not the 5 gal.

oh well. I learned tons from my first rum!! I was just looking at 5 gal Blackstrap molasses and it was only a couple bucks more then my nasty feed grade (have no idea how much it will cost to ship though). I have all summer to find deals and hoard molasses

[Saltbush Bill]

Saddie pay attention to Larrys post regarding the sugar content of molasses....being around 50%.
Mills here I'm told can extract a tiny bit more only a % or so.
Any molasses that you buy that is under about 48% in my opinion has been tampered with.
Least that is around these parts.
Also don't judge the end product on how the molasses tastes straight from the bucket.
The animal food grade stuff I use doesn't taste that great straight from the bucket.....but it makes a good Rum.

[sadie33]

Saddie pay attention to Larrys post regarding the sugar content of molasses....being around 50%.
Mills here I'm told can extract a tiny bit more only a % or so.
Any molasses that you buy that is under about 48% in my opinion has been tampered with.
Least that is around these parts.
Also don't judge the end product on how the molasses tastes straight from the bucket.
The animal food grade stuff I use doesn't taste that great straight from the bucket.....but it makes a good Rum.

Thanks SB, I don't think I will ever buy another molasses w/o a label. It had no ingredients listed so I have no idea what's in it. they did say it was sulfur-free, but that's all I know about it.

I'm thinking if I buy the blackstrap, I could use it in baking too and their won't be any questions about the quality.

I just finished and got 3Qts plus 2.5 cups at 23% from a 2.5 gal charge. I'm happy with that.

[Bolverk]

The animal food grade stuff I use doesn't taste that great straight from the bucket.....but it makes a good Rum.

I can second this, I just bought some tribute brand feed molasses (unsulfered) and at only 37% sugar, it was borderline foul tasting when I tried it from bucket, but hot damn did it make a good rum.

[still_stirrin]

The animal food grade stuff I use doesn't taste that great straight from the bucket.....but it makes a good Rum.

I can second this, I just bought some tribute brand feed molasses (unsulfered) and at only 37% sugar, it was borderline foul tasting when I tried it from bucket, but hot damn did it make a good rum.

Rum … when “funk” is a good thing. And “time” is your friend.
ss

[squigglefunk]

yeah I have read feed grade and even black strap molasses are getting lower and lower in sugar content as the process to make white sugar gets more efficient.

[Saltbush Bill]

yeah I have read feed grade and even black strap molasses are getting lower and lower in sugar content as the process to make white sugar gets more efficient.

As far as I am aware, they still can't remove more than much over 50% of the sugar , that is the figure for the most modern and efficient mills.
If they could extract more they would.
That figure is what I'm told by workers from a local mill here.
If there is a link to some positive proof of better sugar extraction I'm keen to see it.

[Yummyrum]

I think the only real way to know is to get a measured amount, say 5 kg and ferment it right out under the best conditions .
Strip it right down to zero and see how much alcohol you get .

Then do the same thing with 5 kg of sugar .

Then you can easily compare and work out the percentage of fermentable sugar in the Molasses .

Sounds simple , but its something I have never actually done . Looking forward to having more time to experiment again when I get to our new home .

[squigglefunk]

If they could extract more they would.
That figure is what I'm told by workers from a local mill here.
If there is a link to some positive proof of better sugar extraction I'm keen to see it.

I'm just going by what some rum distillers have shared with me and I think are talking the historical reference of using blackstrap molasses not like in the last few years it has changed.

most I conversed with to said not to use blackstrap at all.

[zed255]

Sadie,

I know it will cost more money, but if you buy 'fancy' molasses and use it for about 1/2 of your fermentable sugar and make up the other half with white sugar you will get a very palatable rum. I have done 100% fancy molasses and half and half and can say neither I nor any of my friendly rum heads can pick between them, so I save a little and do the molasses and sugar wash.

I buy 5kg jugs of Crosby's for about $20 CAD and 20kg bags of sugar for the same. I use 30kg fancy, 5kg blackstrap and 20kg sugar made up to about 200ish litres of wash, usually closer to 210 litre, a very full HDPE barrel. The fancy I get is about 65% sugar and the blackstrap is closer to 55% sugar, both are sold for human consumption.

My rum is after compared favourably to Dominican or Cuban styles.

[Saltbush Bill]

Traditionally Rum has never been made from fancy or blackstrap, food grade mollases......the cost alone would have been prohibitive
The raw rough by product straight from the sugar mills bulk storage tanks was more than sufficient.
If people are having trouble making good rum without having to buy the fancier grades of molasses, then you guys must be being sold some really shitty molasses that has been badly tampered with.