About using rice…

[BoomTown]

Well, used my little wine press to recover 5 gallons of beer from a 6 gallon fermenter. The mash was that corn/wheat/rice batch I wrote about earlier.

>>>>SNIP. SNIP <<<<<

Meantime, have a 2nd corn/rice/wheat grain bill all set to mash tomorrow.

I’m hoping for a whiskey with a light mouth feel, nutty, vanella,sweet, slightly peppering spirit, when cut to 90p. Will snag an ounce or two during the Harts part of the run, but most will become low-wine for a soon-to-be spirit run after I collect 20/25 Liters.

OK, this beer run of the 1st Mash produced about 3 L at 60%, run fast. Sucked off the first 150ml, and tossed that. Saved all the rest, having run the tails out to 20% ABV.

Did not do any tasting…the suspense is killing me, but DECIDED to wait for the Spirit run to create a melded standard of output from 5 batches. Am midway through 2nd ferment now, am tinkering with the grain bill portions a bit, trying to boost the OSG to 1.065 or better, and studying how best to pitch the enzymes. Records will reveal the actual recipe amounts for the grains used.

Temperature recommend on the 2 (8oz) bottles seem out of sync with some of the contributors to this thread, and close reading of the bottles’ labels don’t reveal exactly what the enzymes are, (they’ve been repackaged to small bottles for sale from Amazon, and apparently who ever did it wasn’t going to reveal its origins). Guess that’s what I get for for being too price focused. Will be replacing both enzymes with actual brand packaged product where the best practice information is complete.

Oder from this 2nd mashing is stronger, musky smelling than I’d expected…not entirely unpleasant, but like entirely pleasant either, but have to respect my SO’s attitude about that going forward.

Will mill out a 3rd grain bill tomorrow. Will be tinkering with the alignment issues inherit with the DY-168 Grainmill first. Trying to clear up that vibrating issue a bit more.

Am encouraged by the comments about tastes achieved by some of the guys here, and leaning forward on batches 3 thru 5.

[NZChris]

I ran mine down to 28% in the receiver, 9% ABV at the spout. Plenty of rice flavor coming over late so I kept on stripping until around where I stop when running whiskey, etc.. After the spirit run, the heart cut selection was about 80%.

If I made a mistake, it might have been removing too much foreshot doing the strip. Next time, I'll take it off in three small samples rather than one, then return any that might have valuable esters to add back for the spirit run.

[BoomTown]

Beer run of 2nd Corn/Rice beer last Saturday and Sunday. Tossed 250ml into the Fients/Heads&Tails jug, collected about 2230 ml of low wine. Ran it down to about 10% ABV yield. Made 2 more 6-gallon mash batches, bumping the rice and corn up a notch aiming for that elusive OSG of 1.065. Didn’t quite get there, Actual OSG of 1.053 - better but not there yet.

Still haven’t tasted any of this stuff yet. Will run these 2 batches Saturday, if they finish out. Will likely need 2 more beer runs making 2 or 3 liters each gto have enough for a full spirit run. Was hoping to finish before St Patrick day, but not likely.

Also twiqued the spreadsheet, adding in formula that tracks the cost of raw materials per batch. Hadn’t done this since we had the Legitimate Distilling operation going back in ‘16. Am a bit surprised at the increases in costs of materials.

[BoomTown]

The suspense was more than I can bear!

My 4th Corn/Rice/Wheat mash yielded 17 liters @ 8%. Final gravity at .995. Running it off (fast) now from Pot through 2”x32”. Column, with two plates, and it’s running at 60%.

In a moment of weakness, After 500ml, I snagged 85ml into a glass beaker. I know from experience that this sample is from the top of the Hearts. Cut the Snag back to 100p. Temperature of the cut-Snag is 70°F. Planning to Snag another sample after 2 Liters, towards the end of hearts part. But couldn’t resist doing a taste test, it is new recipe for me.

Taste is a sweet, slightly licorice, nose gives off hints of damp leather. Mouth gets slightly oily feel. Tastes Linger forward on the tongue and forward part of the pallet, triggers a saliva flood from around the molars following the swallow. Granted, it’s just off the condenser, and given a few days, I’d expect it to evolve a bit. But this whole run is being added as a Low Wine.

Oddly, I did two, six gallon buckets; one finished yesterday- the other is still Fermentering. This is unusual for my Mashes, normally they will finish by EOB, day 5. This 2nd Bucket is still working (vigorously) nearing 8 days now. Haven’t broken its seal yet, and won’t till the monitor stops it’s bubbling.

So, will likely have my 15 L of Low Wine for a Spirit Run by end of this Beer. Run. Aiming for Sunday for the Spirit Run.

[BoomTown]

You want to use a particular enzyme for rice, aspergillus niger, to convert the startch. It's basically a fungus that can be bought concentrated or as a combo with yeast known as a Chinese yeast ball.

Use the Aspergillus for conversion like malt. Good news, it will also convert the corn!

there are rice posts here on this site.

DAD, I’ve been researching ‘aspergillosis niger’ as you’ve suggested it. A couple questions emerge, if you have the time maybe you have additional insight to share.

It’s clear that A. Niger’s primary role is in creating citric acid. Given that I introduce ¼ tsp of citric acid as I prepare the water, and before heat and then infusing the grains, is the A. Niger still necessary?

The temperature sensitivity of the Alfa and Gluco Amylase enzymes were an early stumbling block for me. The labels on the 8oz bottles simply were wrong, and once my process was adjusted to the optimum temperature ranges, results have been as anticipated. What temperature points will best suite A. Niger?

I’m not finding a commercial source for the A. niger enzyme through my normal Google searching, is there a source you’d recommend?

Research does also indicate that the A. Niger can cause respiratory issues. How can it be used safely to minimize that risk?

[squigglefunk]

its a mold I believe not an enzyme but this mold creates said enzymes as a natural part of its process breaking down the starches and then the yeast comes in behind and converts the sugars ? something to that effect when using either aspergillus niger or oryzae (koji)

there are angel yeast packets call "rice leaven" I think this is just the koji mold (probably the oryzae)

[BoomTown]

So, another initial summary about this Blue Corn/White Rice/Red Wheat experiment.

After 4, six gallon mashes fermented using DADY, the combined Low Wine collected was 10.6 Liter, from Beer runs performed at High heat. The ABV of the Low Wine is 37%. The pattern established for these Mash cycles settled in at 12 days from OSG of 1.055 to 0, about twice the time line of my non-rice mashes.

Fients and Heads ran at 86% ABV, with 80% Heat. After they started to run, I cut the heat back to 50%. Am anticipating .45 Liters of Fients and Heads at this ABV, if the run follows earlier patterns. At the run, odor of hi-end alcaloides is stronger than my traditional runs, leading me to test for Heads deeper into the expected volume than anticipated. The Heads to Hearts break was precisely where my historical data predicted, based on my ABV measurement (now running at 83%) and confirmed by taste test.

Noted in the contributions from some folks (read the thread) that a different, more Rice specific yeast/enzyme may produce different Mash results, and IF I decide to continue using Rice, I’m inclined to experiment with those. I chose to continue through my regular processes to isolate the impact of substituting Rice for my usual Rhar Malted Barley. The Rice and Glucoamalaze enzymes
and subscription of Blue Corn for my traditional T.S. Yellow Cracked Corn are the variables to my established processes. I’m planning to compare fragrance and taste at 90 day intervals comparing using notes taken of my traditional recipe.

At the still, tasting a sample cut back to 90p, my observation is that there are significant differences between this and my original recipe. This White liquor is sweeter, milder, with a full, but subdued mouth feel. Very slight burn. The taste linger keeps saliva flowing for several minutes after the swallow, the taste too lingers to the rear of the teeth, middle top of tongue. Very pleasant, neutral odor. May decide to keep some with no further processing.

I anticipate collecting 3.6 Liters of Hearts at 83% ABV, which I will cut to 65% ABV and store over medium Charred White Oak. Oak to fluid ratio will be 15 square inches per Liter.

So far, I’m very pleased with this liquor. Will revisit the thread with updates or edits as needed. Hoping the narrative proves useful to someone else.

Thanks for following.

Catching spirit

[DAD300]

~$30usd a quart and you use very small amounts, 2.7grams per 100liters

Don't inhale/sniff it...Asperillias Niger is the stuff that causes Legionnaire's disease

https://bsgdistilling.com/amylo-300-1-kg/

[BoomTown]

It must have been a while since you bought your. I just bought 1 Liter for $69, fob Alexandria VA. Thanks for the recommendation

[squigglefunk]

Don't inhale/sniff it...Asperillias Niger is the stuff that causes Legionnaire's disease

lol I knew I didn't like the smell of the YLAY... that there mold is deadly

[squigglefunk]

https://bsgdistilling.com/amylo-300-1-kg/

amylo-300-1-kg.jpeg

although this is the enzyme not the mold eh? Is the enzyme still deadly to smell?

[BoomTown]

Granted, this stuff hasn’t been aged, it it certainly tastes great
.Biggest adjustment is the extended length of the fermenting cycle.

[BoomTown]

Well Gosh a Wash….just squeezed out 10 gallons of 8% beer, ready to run as time allows. This Blu Corn, Yellow Corn, Long Brown Rice, definitely takes an extra 4 days to ferment using DADY. Will be using the new (to me) enzymes next batch, instead if Glucoamalyze, the ‘optimum temperature’ slots are the same.

Meantime, I’ve grown fond of the White heart liquor, cut to 90p, over ice. It’s different, mild mouth but full texture and blooming taste. The Oak Aged is looking in treaging, but is still too young for a brown to be considered.

Will grind out another 10 Gallon worth of grains tomorrow, may set up a beer run…but will be rainy here. Oh well.

[BoomTown]

I am in the middle (I actually think it finished today but had to do my taxes) of a fermentation of long grain rice that I didn't mill I tried to do it as easy as possible without yellow label angel yeast, which I intend to strip an redistill into a neutral. So far my favorite neutral has been made from 100 oats so I can't wait to compare

Hello RB

How’d your whole, long grain rice Mash turn out? I’m milling my 3 grains twice, to about like a course corn meal consistency. I squeeze through a wine press, and recover about 95% of my fluids, but maybe that’s over kill at the mill?

[Ridgeback816]

I am in the middle (I actually think it finished today but had to do my taxes) of a fermentation of long grain rice that I didn't mill I tried to do it as easy as possible without yellow label angel yeast, which I intend to strip an redistill into a neutral. So far my favorite neutral has been made from 100 oats so I can't wait to compare

Hello RB

How’d your whole, long grain rice Mash turn out? I’m milling my 3 grains twice, to about like a course corn meal consistency. I squeeze through a wine press, and recover about 95% of my fluids, but maybe that’s over kill at the mill?

It came out really well very clean maybe a little too much so. I did like leaving the rice whole I was able to drain off the wash and it cleared very quickly. I more recently did a 50 percent rye whiskey with the remainder equal parts oats wheat and barley. Then I took the spent grains and mashed in rice onto of that again left the rice whole still drained easily and had a better mouth feel so instead of sugar heads on top of whiskey grains I am going to stick with rice heads

[gsugg]

Just a comment for anybody that is interested in rice, using the Angel Yeast, etc. Go to homebrewsake.com; guy there named Will that is super knowledgeable about sake and production with Koji. He has items for sale you need for the sake process at reasonable prices. He has a couple of great step by step recipes on making sake and preparing your own koji from spores. If you read through his instructions, you'll tie into the process on another thread about using the angel yeast and not having to mash. (Thread is "No Mash, No Sugar" I believe). I followed his instructions to the letter and produced a sake on my first attempt that I think is as good as any I've ever purchased. If you have any questions, please feel free to PM me or post here. Greg