2nd fermentation live muck addition

[overoaked]

just some documentation of current rum experiments.
I have been experimenting using slatbushbill’s all molasses recipe.

Procedure:
• Clean fermentation until complete (no change to recipe)
• Addition of live dunder / muck (varying % amounts of fermentation volume)
• Secondary fermentation. (varying time longest so far 50 days)

Results:
• Definitely increased ester production
• The more dunder / muck you add the more complex the resulting product
• Increasing the 2nd fermentation time increases ester production not sure what would happen the current 45 days maximum is increased. I suspect there is a increased risk of acetobacter infection taking over.

Has anyone else tried using similar techniques and what where your results

[Bolverk]

I've been reading up on homemade vinegar for this very reason.
My understanding is that acetobacter converts ethanol to aceditc acid pretty slowly. I think that 4-6 week range is probably ideal as too much ethel acitate starts to smell/taste like solvent.

Here's a good article on the use of cane acid (read Stephen from Boston Apothecarys comment down below)
https://cocktailwonk.com/2020/06/jamaic ... -acid.html

[Yummyrum]

Overoaked,
So, so far all you have done is ferment . How do you know what esters you have produced .

Have you distilled
Any of it yet ?

[overoaked]

Sorry I should have stated it had been distilled via a cooling management column set to output 80% ABV. I have tried pot stilling it but found the tails come in far to early and a lot of product is lost. The column helps me hold back the tails for longer

[PLAYMP]

Did you do anything to prepare or treat your dunder?

[overoaked]

My muck pit is a 220 ltr barrel kept at a 28 degrees centigrade using an aquarium heater. It is kept open to the air and has been inoculated with sugar cane and has fruit peal, fruit scraps and resistance starch added periodicity. The resistance starch was made by boiling potato and rapidly cooling in ice water. Varying amounts of this are drawn off and added to the fermenter for secondary fermentation

[NZChris]

Do you control the pH of the pit?

[overoaked]

No i don't control the pit pH. Only control measures put in place are a fine mesh bug net to keep out fruit flies and the like and a reduced opening to the air of 75mm. it was much easier to make a small bug net plug than to cover the entire top.

Should I be controlling the pH?
mite have to take a reading next time I calibrate the pH probe and if its too low buffer with shells

[overoaked]

I've been reading up on homemade vinegar for this very reason.
My understanding is that acetobacter converts ethanol to aceditc acid pretty slowly. I think that 4-6 week range is probably ideal as too much ethel acitate starts to smell/taste like solvent.

Here's a good article on the use of cane acid (read Stephen from Boston Apothecarys comment down below)
https://cocktailwonk.com/2020/06/jamaic ... -acid.html

that was an interesting read thanks

[NZChris]

Download and read this before it disappears. Page 428
https://iiif.wellcomecollection.org/pdf/b21537379

[overoaked]

Thanks for pdf link it was interesting to read the chapter on sugar syrups and confectionery. I could be missing something but from the pdf section on sugar refining it states they use lime (calcium oxides) to control pH by neutralizing organic acids. So to infer this to a muck pit / high ester rum production. Adding shells (calcium carbonate) would not be beneficial as a reduction in organic acids would result in lower esterification

[NZChris]

Thanks for pdf link it was interesting to read the chapter on sugar syrups and confectionery. I could be missing something but from the pdf section on sugar refining it states they use lime (calcium oxides) to control pH by neutralizing organic acids. So to infer this to a muck pit / high ester rum production. Adding shells (calcium carbonate) would not be beneficial as a reduction in organic acids would result in lower esterification

The reduction is due to the various precursors being locked in as lime salts, which are used to create easters later in the process.

Look up H. H. Cousins for another rabbit hole to go down.

[overoaked]

Think I will stick to no pH control as reducing organic acids will result in lower ester levels in final product the opposite of what i want to achieve.

The last rum run recently was a strip of 260lts with high % muck volume and long secondary fermentation 45 -50 days. So no cuts as of yet but the smell coming off the still was at times of over ripe fruit along with molasses. Looking forward to getting the spirit run done on this

[overoaked]

Look up H. H. Cousins for another rabbit hole to go down.

Now that is a deep rabbit hole thanks for that one. It has certainty given me ides on how I can increase flavor by esterification. From how it reads there is no real wrong way to make flavor in rum as long as it is not producing poisonous compounds in the final distillate product.

Does make me wonder if we should have a thread to document peoples techniques / processes and results as these can get lost and buried in individual threads

[Bolverk]

Does make me wonder if we should have a thread to document peoples techniques / processes and results as these can get lost and buried in individual threads

Yeah, I tried to make a thread where we collaborated and explained it in a simple way and got admonished for trying to make it too easy. I guess there is some sort of unspoken barrier to entry for high ester protection.

[OtisT]

You will get a lot more activity in your muck pit it you manage the PH for the things you are trying to propagate. Raise the PH and things will really take off.

[Saltbush Bill]

Yeah, I tried to make a thread where we collaborated and explained it in a simple way and got admonished for trying to make it too easy. I guess there is some sort of unspoken barrier to entry for high ester protection.

Your welcome to start a thread any time you like.

[Bolverk]

Your welcome to start a thread any time you like.

Yeah, I tried like 2 months ago.

viewtopic.php?t=89775

But instead of gettting help to simply the Cousins process for newbies to high ester protection I was told I need to focus on beginner stuff because it didnt look like I had ever made rum because I never posted about it.

[NZChris]

Your welcome to start a thread any time you like.

Yeah, I tried like 2 months ago.

viewtopic.php?t=89775

But instead of gettting help to simply the Cousins process for newbies to high ester protection I was told I need to focus on beginner stuff because it didnt look like I had ever made rum because I never posted about it.

You asked for help, you got help, and now you are complaining about it?

[Bolverk]

Chris, you were helpful

Sorry, I'm not trying to muck up the OPs thread....