Doing my first real rum spirit run tomorrow, some Q's

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Rumhead
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Doing my first real rum spirit run tomorrow, some Q's

Post by Rumhead »

Hi guys

So, I have now 19L of ~35% i am going to redistill tomorrow even if it is very palatable now, it needs some cuts on it. The problem is, i dont know what volume of distillate to come out of the spririt run.

I have a bunch of smaller vessels for cuts, but only for around 4-5L total volume. Upon that i have a gang of 1L jars, i think 6 or maybe 7.

I guessed that the total amount of distilate should be somewhere around 10-12L if im thinking correct. Problem is, i never measured why my potstill puts out on the stripping run, so it is hard for me to use the calculators.

The still is a 30L pot with a 1200W element, nad it has a 50cm long 2" copper pipe above the boiler and on top of that a variant of the usual pot head advised to build here on HD. Should be some people here who have a better knowing of probable output and what i should expect.

My plan for now is that after the foreshots, collect in 1L vessel a total amount of around 2,5-3L and then go over to smaller vessels and when in true hearts again go to 1L vessels for some liters and then again change over to smaller vessels and when in true tails again going large vessel. Will try to capture the so much talked about oils separate.

I need some advise and critique on my approach. What do you think and how would you have done it? Will start distilling in about 20 hours from this topic start

Please comment
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Re: Doing my first real rum spirit run tomorrow, some Q's

Post by Yummyrum »

Seriously no don’t do that , you’ll stuff it up.

You need to collect in small jars or glasses and do samples and cuts .
IMG_8023.jpeg
As you can see ,there are a lot of jars that may or may not be beneficial to your final Rum .
IMG_8025.jpeg
Have a look at this topic , it explains the process in a bit more detail
viewtopic.php?p=7500094#p7500094
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Re: Doing my first real rum spirit run tomorrow, some Q's

Post by NZChris »

The answers you need have already been posted on the forum. I suggest you learn how to use the Google search function.

Why the hurry? Rum can be made that takes years to age, or to be enjoyed young and white. Spend some time deciding what it is that you want to make, then do the research needed to make your desired product long before stilling day.
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Re: Doing my first real rum spirit run tomorrow, some Q's

Post by Saltbush Bill »

As yummy has already said , don't waste your time, on a still charge that size you need smaller jars and more of them.
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Re: Doing my first real rum spirit run tomorrow, some Q's

Post by Rumhead »

Sometimes you got to work with what you have. This is one of those times. I do know whats advised, as mentioned.

Jars might grow on trees where you live but over here you have to buy a product to get the jar and hence, it takes time to collect jars. The only jars i can buy in large amounts are from 0,5l and up, and the 0,5 are not cheap at all. The 1,0L could sometimes be found for a reasonable sum. I have my family saving jars for me but i still can't get enough in time as i suppose we are alot more eco friendly over here, not many products on the shelf in stores that are in glass.

Thank you for your advise. Will sort it out.
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Re: Doing my first real rum spirit run tomorrow, some Q's

Post by OtisT »

Rumhead,
You should check out some of the calculators available from the parent HD site. There is one there that will help you calculate the total volume you should expect to collect (assuming you collect it all). From the home page choose the calculators page. On the list of calculator pages open “Calcs from Rad14701”. In there, look at the “Distillate to Water Calculator” to calculate the volume you will collect and the volume that will remain in your boiler.

There are three input values and you can easily measure two of them. You can measure the volume and ABV of what you put into your boiler. The unknown value for you will be the average ABV output of your still. This number is relational to the ABV of what you have in the boiler.. This is something you should measure on your own still. Until you can measure this, try using 72% for starters on a 35% ABV spirit run on a pot still.

Once you know the volume you plan to collect, you can figure out how many jars of what size you need. Read the posts suggested above on how to make cuts. You won’t be making anything good until you understand how to make cuts.
Last edited by OtisT on Sat May 27, 2023 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Doing my first real rum spirit run tomorrow, some Q's

Post by Yummyrum »

High rumhead
I apologise that I misread your OP . :oops:
I now see that you were indeed trying to use your larger jars to collect the “bulk” of the heads before switching to your available smaller jars for the heads-hearts transition , and again doing the same after bulk of hearts collected.

So on that note , I would only say that Rum in my experience needs just a few more heads jars than say Whisky , so if anything , try to spare as many smaller ones on the heads -hearts transition area . Tails has no place in Rum in my opinion , so once I detected it , I would bulk collect it for further recycling ( NZChris will probably disagree here)

Regarding jars , yes all mine were collected from pasta sauce or the likes .

But you don’t need to actually use jars . There has been several occasions where I have raided the kitchen and used all the glass beakers and then pinched all the ceramic cups when I have mis calculated the size of a run .

Even a stack of paper cups is worth having on standby .

Hope its going OK for you .
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Re: Doing my first real rum spirit run tomorrow, some Q's

Post by shadylane »

Rumhead wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 12:34 am
So, I have now 19L of ~35% i am going to redistill tomorrow even if it is very palatable now, it needs some cuts on it. The problem is, i dont know what volume of distillate to come out of the spririt run.

Please comment

Ya got 6.65L of total alcohol in the low-wines.
Figure on keeping between 1/2 and 3/4 of that after redistilling and cuts.
The actual volume will vary depending on the ABV.

Side note.
If you're not sure how many jars are needed, hold off on the spirit run until you get some more.
Start buying things that come in small glass jars.
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Re: Doing my first real rum spirit run tomorrow, some Q's

Post by shadylane »

Rumhead wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 12:34 am
My plan for now is that after the foreshots, collect in 1L vessel a total amount of around 2,5-3L and then go over to smaller vessels and when in true hearts again go to 1L vessels for some liters and then again change over to smaller vessels and when in true tails again going large vessel.
Use small jars and only partially fill them during the heads.
Once into the hearts, start using bigger jars and fill them more.
When you suspect the hearts run is near its end, switch back to small jars.
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Re: Doing my first real rum spirit run tomorrow, some Q's

Post by NZChris »

I might calculate that I want to use twenty, or more cut jars, but I never actually use that many.

In the middle of the run, there should be quite a few jars that don't have any flaws and are obviously going to be included in the heart cut, so don't have to be kept separate. These jars can be combined into larger glassware to free up some jars for the end of the run.
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Re: Doing my first real rum spirit run tomorrow, some Q's

Post by HDNB »

lemme try and ballpark it for you.

like shady said, you'll have just uner 7 litre absolute alcohol. assume filling your pot still at 35% you will take off at 70%, so about 1/2 of what goes in will come back out. so about 10L in total.
The foreshots maybe 250mL is lots. toss it out.
the first litre will be heads for sure, so collect in a big jar.
the next couple liters will hold your transition point to hearts, so collect in a few jars if possible and you'll be able to find the break.
litres 3, 4 and 5 will be hearts if you hold a nice steady heat input.
somewhere in 6 or 7 will be the break to tails so back to smaller jars to find it.
once you get to tails, you can collect the remainder in a big vessel and / or even mix with the obvious head cut. keep this for a future run, you can add it to the next spirit run (of the same type of spirit) to improve the keep.
when the output drops abv, you're done whenever you feel like stopping.

this will give gross cuts without much selection for blending a particular flavour profile....that is some distillers will add back smaller fractions of late heads to give a whisky a bit of zip, or blend small fractions of different tails that they find interesting. especially if extended aging is anticipated. without small jars, this will be difficult/impossible

but if you are looking for clean hearts to drink white or age for a short time, this should give you enough wiggle room to get a good drop.

btw, glass is very eco. it recycles like a MoFo.
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Re: Doing my first real rum spirit run tomorrow, some Q's

Post by Dougmatt »

Let’s see:

19L at 35% = 6.65L at 100% as shady noted.

I usually pull ~70% off my rig on spirit run so base take would be 6.65 / .7 = 9.5L (or less if your net proof is higher, more if lower)…

So for the run:

Did you pull fores on your strips? If not you will need to dump those based on how much wash you stripped, but let’s assume 400ml in fores.. Next I personally hate early rum heads to the point I toss them with my fores so I double it to 800ml tossed. So at this point, I’ve used no jars as I rinse and reuse everything up to this point.

After that I collect small amounts per jar (jar size is irrelevant) until I’m in hearts, then switch to large amounts (sometimes right into a gallon jug) until I start to expect tails then back to small amounts until I’m sure it’s tails, then I either shut down OR run it all into a tank as feints..

Hope this helps.

Edit: posted at same time as HDNB.. similar thinking.
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Re: Doing my first real rum spirit run tomorrow, some Q's

Post by Saltbush Bill »

NZChris wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 4:59 pm In the middle of the run, there should be quite a few jars that don't have any flaws and are obviously going to be included in the heart cut, so don't have to be kept separate. These jars can be combined into larger glassware to free up some jars for the end of the run.
Easy enough for some one who's been in the hobby for years......probably not so easy for a newb who's still learning the ins and outs... in the beginning it's still easier and they are much less likely to make mistakes using many smallish jars.
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Re: Doing my first real rum spirit run tomorrow, some Q's

Post by Twisted Brick »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 7:31 pm
Easy enough for some one who's been in the hobby for years......probably not so easy for a newb who's still learning the ins and outs... in the beginning it's still easier and they are much less likely to make mistakes using many smallish jars.
+1

Not to mention the incremental lessons learned over the course of one's early cut sessions add up for later batches, and the more transitions to sample the better.
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Re: Doing my first real rum spirit run tomorrow, some Q's

Post by NZChris »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 7:31 pm
NZChris wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 4:59 pm In the middle of the run, there should be quite a few jars that don't have any flaws and are obviously going to be included in the heart cut, so don't have to be kept separate. These jars can be combined into larger glassware to free up some jars for the end of the run.
Easy enough for some one who's been in the hobby for years......probably not so easy for a newb who's still learning the ins and outs... in the beginning it's still easier and they are much less likely to make mistakes using many smallish jars.
That is advice for newbies who haven't accumulated enough jars yet, but want to do a run. If it is bad advice, I've never seen a post that explains why.
It makes choosing the heart cut easier for newbies and old hands, because they aren't compromising their taste buds by doing unnecessary tastings.

Regardless of what method you use, or how skilled you are, you should double check your choice after your taste buds have had time to recover and before you commit it to a single vessel, especially if you are intent on pushing the limits to make a highly flavored product.
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Re: Doing my first real rum spirit run tomorrow, some Q's

Post by JustinNZ »

Hey man, welcome to rum! I think I know what you’re after, so I’ll share a bit of data, but… it’s just a very loose guide and ultimately you need to follow your nose like everyone’s said.

Based on averaging my cuts from my last four pot still spirit runs of SBB All Molasses rum, with low-wines around 40%, I took (volume in jars straight off still)

Heads 17%, hearts 53% and tails 30%. This is post a fairly small foreshore cut.

Heads was pretty consistent, but hearts varied a bit as did tails, of course.

Disclaimer: playing by numbers is not ideal and this is just to help you put your jars in order if you’re expecting roughly 10L off the still. Smell and taste the next day is the way to go, as tricky as that can be. I really struggle with tails.
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Re: Doing my first real rum spirit run tomorrow, some Q's

Post by NZChris »

Numbers from other distillers, especially if they are not running the same still and wash, should be avoided.
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Re: Doing my first real rum spirit run tomorrow, some Q's

Post by Rumhead »

Just to clarify, i am not a new distiller, have taken plenty of cuts before but been a while since then. Just not ever done it on a rum spirit run before.

So the still is warming up and ill read thru your advise. I only have stripping runs to go on, for rum, but i found it fairly noticeable where the heads ended and tails come.

I am going to measure the temp and abv of the foreshot and also write down time and collect nr and ABV on each jar, maybe a h/h if uncertain and a h/t at the end of hearts.
If i get a baseline ABV of what it produces out of the spout with this 50cm riser i use to promote passive reflux, i should somewhat see how it changes too. But taste and smell as always firstly.


This rum is a really clean panela rum with only one lite of blackstrap grade A+, so the cuts should be wide. My friend found the 35% palatable, but i felt for certain it lacked some cuts :)
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Re: Doing my first real rum spirit run tomorrow, some Q's

Post by Rumhead »

FYI,

Yesterday cleaning the still using heads and later ättika(acetic acid 12%) i inadvertently created a bunch of ethyl acetate. Kinda nice to see how that vile stingy acetic acid turns to prickly apple/pears thing, so tried tasting both and that was kinda the wow moment, the alcohol was largely gone and also the acetic. Only quite sour taste(like sour candy) and that same prickly apple/pear taste.

So i am going to start a miniscule low strength wash and turn to cane vinegar. Might be handy when i star using my dunder pit. Will start new pits, seeded with bought microbes so im certain or kinda certain of whats in it.
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Re: Doing my first real rum spirit run tomorrow, some Q's

Post by NZChris »

What is important, is that you choose a heart cut that you like. One jar too far at either end can be hard to fix.

Personally, I like to get my ducks in a row before I put the heat on for the stripping run, and again for the spirit run.
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Re: Doing my first real rum spirit run tomorrow, some Q's

Post by NZChris »

I've always removed as much ethyl acetate as possible from everything I've ever made, but I've also read that it is an important flavor in rum from more than a couple of sources.

As usual, my next rum series will be different from all of my previous rums. The more you learn about rum, the more you learn how much more there is to be learned.
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Re: Doing my first real rum spirit run tomorrow, some Q's

Post by Rumhead »

HDNB wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 5:29 pm lemme try and ballpark it for you.

like shady said, you'll have just uner 7 litre absolute alcohol. assume filling your pot still at 35% you will take off at 70%, so about 1/2 of what goes in will come back out. so about 10L in total.
The foreshots maybe 250mL is lots. toss it out.
the first litre will be heads for sure, so collect in a big jar.
the next couple liters will hold your transition point to hearts, so collect in a few jars if possible and you'll be able to find the break.
litres 3, 4 and 5 will be hearts if you hold a nice steady heat input.
somewhere in 6 or 7 will be the break to tails so back to smaller jars to find it.
once you get to tails, you can collect the remainder in a big vessel and / or even mix with the obvious head cut. keep this for a future run, you can add it to the next spirit run (of the same type of spirit) to improve the keep.
when the output drops abv, you're done whenever you feel like stopping.

this will give gross cuts without much selection for blending a particular flavour profile....that is some distillers will add back smaller fractions of late heads to give a whisky a bit of zip, or blend small fractions of different tails that they find interesting. especially if extended aging is anticipated. without small jars, this will be difficult/impossible

but if you are looking for clean hearts to drink white or age for a short time, this should give you enough wiggle room to get a good drop.

btw, glass is very eco. it recycles like a MoFo.
This is exactly what i have expected to do. I figured the cuts would lie somewhere there so these points will be using smaller yars.

I checked that calculator out, i searched for it yesterday because i remember i have used it before but didnt find it. So, yeah, thanks for the help.

I buy as many jars i can, olives is nice but in a certain amount. Other than that, it is herring och ready to cook soup that is in suitable jars in the stores here. Everything else is tetrapak or aluminium.

As this is a clean rum, i feel kind of certain i wont f**ck it up if i only transition to the smaller jars when anticipated. I would have felt less certain it it would have been a molasses only wash, but this wash has some commonality to a sugar wash, but in a way, not really either :)

So we will see what comes of it. Will report back on the progress.

Might make two cuts when aired out, something a little heavier for oaking and something for drinking straight. Well see.

Ordered 8 different types of dominoes from stilldragon so a lot to try out there.

Think i like the aged agricoles better than ordinary rums, or maybe those aged agricoles i have tried have just been less oaked. I often find molasses based rums very oak heavy and i do not like that. Diplomatico Matauano was my latest purchase thats like that. Havent tasted any agricoles with such heavy oak influence yet, so might be way to early to draw a conclusion to that i prefer french oak.. especially as agricole often is aged in american oak too.
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Re: Doing my first real rum spirit run tomorrow, some Q's

Post by Rumhead »

NZChris wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 12:52 am I've always removed as much ethyl acetate as possible from everything I've ever made, but I've also read that it is an important flavor in rum from more than a couple of sources.

As usual, my next rum series will be different from all of my previous rums. The more you learn about rum, the more you learn how much more there is to be learned.
I have read plenty of you comments and tried to search your posts for a thread where you show what you do with your rum. I guess there isnt one? I would really like to see what you do and possibly gain some knowledge from it. Der Wo was very prolific in posting what he did and that gave us learners a good dose of needed knowledge to start seeking deeper by oneself. I gather that you have been doing rum a long long time. You have probably forgot more than i have learnt :)

Yeah, i can somewhat relate to you there, that wasnt something i relate to a fine rum. Im not well versed in spirits but i could see its place in a apple/pear distillate, in correct amounts.

I still dont know what a really fine rum is for me.. so need to order a bunch of samples from excellenrhum and try. I think aged agricoles are more my type. I have two here, both have one type of rumraisins note that is just so very delicious. And they arent sweetened, anyone of them. One very cheap and one not at all cheap.
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Re: Doing my first real rum spirit run tomorrow, some Q's

Post by LordL »

Rumhead wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 1:19 pm Sometimes you got to work with what you have. This is one of those times. I do know whats advised, as mentioned.

Jars might grow on trees where you live but over here you have to buy a product to get the jar and hence, it takes time to collect jars. The only jars i can buy in large amounts are from 0,5l and up, and the 0,5 are not cheap at all. The 1,0L could sometimes be found for a reasonable sum. I have my family saving jars for me but i still can't get enough in time as i suppose we are alot more eco friendly over here, not many products on the shelf in stores that are in glass.

Thank you for your advise. Will sort it out.
Try this site, they have everything you need, quite cheap!

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Re: Doing my first real rum spirit run tomorrow, some Q's

Post by Rumhead »

LordL wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 2:10 am
Rumhead wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 1:19 pm Sometimes you got to work with what you have. This is one of those times. I do know whats advised, as mentioned.

Jars might grow on trees where you live but over here you have to buy a product to get the jar and hence, it takes time to collect jars. The only jars i can buy in large amounts are from 0,5l and up, and the 0,5 are not cheap at all. The 1,0L could sometimes be found for a reasonable sum. I have my family saving jars for me but i still can't get enough in time as i suppose we are alot more eco friendly over here, not many products on the shelf in stores that are in glass.

Thank you for your advise. Will sort it out.
Try this site, they have everything you need, quite cheap!

https://www.glasoflaskor.se/Marmeladbur ... RDEALw_wcB
Yes, i know about that site, have been in contact with them, talking about procuring large amounts of bottles. I cant remember exactly now, but if i remember correctly it isnt cheap in small orders. Have you bought jars from them? I looked at jars at their site some months ago just for this use, and came to the conclusion that it for some reason really wasnt an option. But maybe i came to the wrong conclusion if youve been successful in ordering the amounts we are talking here, 20-30 pcs.

I am at 3,4L now and are transitioning to larger vessels after 3,6L.
Had to shut down for 15 min and connect a scr in jar 2 as i was making rocket fuel at 3-4l/h.
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Re: Doing my first real rum spirit run tomorrow, some Q's

Post by LordL »

Rumhead wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 4:06 am
LordL wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 2:10 am
Rumhead wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 1:19 pm Sometimes you got to work with what you have. This is one of those times. I do know whats advised, as mentioned.

Jars might grow on trees where you live but over here you have to buy a product to get the jar and hence, it takes time to collect jars. The only jars i can buy in large amounts are from 0,5l and up, and the 0,5 are not cheap at all. The 1,0L could sometimes be found for a reasonable sum. I have my family saving jars for me but i still can't get enough in time as i suppose we are alot more eco friendly over here, not many products on the shelf in stores that are in glass.

Thank you for your advise. Will sort it out.
Try this site, they have everything you need, quite cheap!

https://www.glasoflaskor.se/Marmeladbur ... RDEALw_wcB
Yes, i know about that site, have been in contact with them, talking about procuring large amounts of bottles. I cant remember exactly now, but if i remember correctly it isnt cheap in small orders. Have you bought jars from them? I looked at jars at their site some months ago just for this use, and came to the conclusion that it for some reason really wasnt an option. But maybe i came to the wrong conclusion if youve been successful in ordering the amounts we are talking here, 20-30 pcs.

I am at 3,4L now and are transitioning to larger vessels after 3,6L.
Had to shut down for 15 min and connect a scr in jar 2 as i was making rocket fuel at 3-4l/h.
I have bought batches of like 10 bottles per purchase. The jars can be had in some larger stores, so haven't had the need to buy them from that site. :)

3-4l/h, "pissin like a race horse", stripping? 😁
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Re: Doing my first real rum spirit run tomorrow, some Q's

Post by MooseMan »

Apologies if this doesn't help out, but it seems glaring to me.
Why can't you use glass bottles and why has no one yet mentioned it?
I too had less jars than I needed early on so I simply started keeping small glass bottles from tonic water, juice drinks, mini wine bottles etc.
Beer bottles will do for temp collection even.

I just collected in the jars, and poured into numbered bottles to free up jars as required through the run.
I did have a small glass funnel which also helped.
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Re: Doing my first real rum spirit run tomorrow, some Q's

Post by Tōtōchtin »

Living where it's hard to get jars might be a blessing. You should be able to go to your local trash dump without going thru cavity searches like the larger cities. I also know 5 star restaurants order more stuff in glass then the cheaper restaurants. Maybe country clubs etc.
Here a 5 gallon bottle cost over 100 fun tickets.
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Re: Doing my first real rum spirit run tomorrow, some Q's

Post by Rumhead »

So, finishing up. Paused a bit at 7L as i was clearly thru what was going to be used for blending. I measured my vessels and found out that if i do 0,4l cuts i have enough jars so i only took one liter in heart in a big jar. Tails come early in rum apparently.

Will let them air out until tomorrow evening or so, maybe longer. Will end up a light rum which way i do it anyway.

Next round of ferments will contain more molasses, and i will be doing two or three 25L ferment at the same time at 34c, speeding up the whole ferment/strip/finishing cycle.

My bucket of dunder is out on the balcony maturing, in it is a around 500g chopped up emmenthaler, two diced potatoes and a splash of non filtered vinegar. Will be starting separate ones, hopefully keeping somewhat more control on it.

Thanks for the help!
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Re: Doing my first real rum spirit run tomorrow, some Q's

Post by Rumhead »

LordL wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 4:46 am
Rumhead wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 4:06 am
LordL wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 2:10 am
Rumhead wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 1:19 pm Sometimes you got to work with what you have. This is one of those times. I do know whats advised, as mentioned.

Jars might grow on trees where you live but over here you have to buy a product to get the jar and hence, it takes time to collect jars. The only jars i can buy in large amounts are from 0,5l and up, and the 0,5 are not cheap at all. The 1,0L could sometimes be found for a reasonable sum. I have my family saving jars for me but i still can't get enough in time as i suppose we are alot more eco friendly over here, not many products on the shelf in stores that are in glass.

Thank you for your advise. Will sort it out.
Try this site, they have everything you need, quite cheap!

https://www.glasoflaskor.se/Marmeladbur ... RDEALw_wcB
Yes, i know about that site, have been in contact with them, talking about procuring large amounts of bottles. I cant remember exactly now, but if i remember correctly it isnt cheap in small orders. Have you bought jars from them? I looked at jars at their site some months ago just for this use, and came to the conclusion that it for some reason really wasnt an option. But maybe i came to the wrong conclusion if youve been successful in ordering the amounts we are talking here, 20-30 pcs.

I am at 3,4L now and are transitioning to larger vessels after 3,6L.
Had to shut down for 15 min and connect a scr in jar 2 as i was making rocket fuel at 3-4l/h.
I have bought batches of like 10 bottles per purchase. The jars can be had in some larger stores, so haven't had the need to buy them from that site. :)

3-4l/h, "pissin like a race horse", stripping? 😁
I live far away from everything more or less.. was happy when i found 1L jars at Rusta for 25sek, found it way cheaper than what i had found previous.

Yes very much so, have been a one year hiatus since i distilled something of value so didnt really think, but did rethink when i tasted it.. very very very hot stuff :)
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