Hoochy's experimental CM/LM column
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Hoochy's experimental CM/LM column
It all started one day when I asked myself, what the change in ABV is between plates on a column. I decided to build something that might help answer the question and what follows is my trials and tests with a 6 plate bubble cap column.
First I fabricated some collection cups. Then I drilled the bubble "tees" to accept a collection manifold
Then I assembled a collection manifold with Stainless steel tubing and Sawage Lock fittings The plates, a 4" bubble cap assembly" were rearranged as to have the downcomer located in the center of the plate with a collection cup under each downcomer.
First I fabricated some collection cups. Then I drilled the bubble "tees" to accept a collection manifold
Then I assembled a collection manifold with Stainless steel tubing and Sawage Lock fittings The plates, a 4" bubble cap assembly" were rearranged as to have the downcomer located in the center of the plate with a collection cup under each downcomer.
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Re: Hoochy's experimental CM/LM column
I ran this set up and soon decided to add more mods to make it better. I replaced all the inexpensive thermometers with Vernier thermoprobes and Logger Pro 3 software to monitor 8 temps, 1 at boiler 2 thru 7 were plates 1 thru 6 and Temp 8 the top of the "u" bend above the Deph. This is a sample graph of the results from that run and I hope to make another run really soon with good temps and ABV per plate.
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Re: Hoochy's experimental CM/LM column
As far as ABV and plate relationship, I find that most of the increase in ABV occurs in the lower 3 or 4 plates, then the change per plate above that is smaller and smaller. There is still a lot to be tested, and I will do my best to keep you up to date.
Hoochy
Hoochy
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Re: Hoochy's experimental CM/LM column
That's looking good..
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Re: Hoochy's experimental CM/LM column
That's a very cool piece of equipment, but if those are swagelock fitting they probably have a neoprene o-ring at each connection. I'm not trying to be an ass, just concerned for your safety.
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Re: Hoochy's experimental CM/LM column
No worries firewater69 Swage Lock are stainless steel on stainless steel compression style fittings, no neoprene there
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Re: Hoochy's experimental CM/LM column
Like the research, interesting to hear the most increase happens in plates 3-4.
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Re: Hoochy's experimental CM/LM column
So here are some results from the first configuration
The first run results showed:
plate 6 90 ABV
plate 5 80 ABV
plate 4 60 ABV
plate 3 50 ABV
plate 2 41 ABV
plate 1 36 ABV
The first run results showed:
plate 6 90 ABV
plate 5 80 ABV
plate 4 60 ABV
plate 3 50 ABV
plate 2 41 ABV
plate 1 36 ABV
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Re: Hoochy's experimental CM/LM column
It is a challenge trying to set up everything for a perfect run, where everything is tuned in just right, but I am confident that if I keep messing with it I will get everything set just right for a run, and I will document it and post it as soon as possible.
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Re: Hoochy's experimental CM/LM column
Very interesting stuff you got going on Cap, love the flute, I hope to build one soon. I'll be following your thread. Keep up the good work.
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Re: Hoochy's experimental CM/LM column
You da man capt
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Re: Hoochy's experimental CM/LM column
But those numbers were from the moment that you took the readings, and if you waited the lower plates abv would rise right? What was the boiler charge?
I've never run a flute. I just love to learn.
Goddam beauty of a set up you got there.
I've never run a flute. I just love to learn.
Goddam beauty of a set up you got there.
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Re: Hoochy's experimental CM/LM column
The boiler charge was at 10% I collected 200 mils from each plate for those abv's and that was the first run, without the modifications. The abv per plate is expected to drop as the run progresses and the lower plates more rapidly and is why fogging on the lower galsses is a good indicator the run will soon be over. The temp graph above shows how more stable in temp the uppers plates were compared to the lower ones.
Hoochy
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Re: Hoochy's experimental CM/LM column
Good stuff Hoochy, I cant wait to see where this goes. Looks like your doing a lot of research and exerting a lot of effort and cost to help other members fully understand how plated f columns work.
I look forward to your next posts.
I look forward to your next posts.
You design it, I make it. Copper and Stainless. Down under. PM me.
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Re: Hoochy's experimental CM/LM column
More than happy to share emptyglass. Others have contributed and is just my turn to give back.
Here is a simple summary about how I play with this rig. The boiler is charged with a 10% wash, brought to temperature and 100 mils of fores and 300 or so mils of heads is collected through the Deph. and out of the top "u" bend into the first product condenser and eventually into the parrot. The column is then placed in full reflux for approximately 15 to 20 minutes and collection begins through the collection manifold. Normally pull around to 300 mils for each plate to check on a ABV and temperature and it is done at the early stages of the run and near the beginning of the hearts as this is the fraction that we are more concerned with. This allows me to do several samplings of each plate while in the hearts.
Soon as a wash finishes I will be doing another test, with a temperature graph. Should be a fun run.
Hoochy
Here is a simple summary about how I play with this rig. The boiler is charged with a 10% wash, brought to temperature and 100 mils of fores and 300 or so mils of heads is collected through the Deph. and out of the top "u" bend into the first product condenser and eventually into the parrot. The column is then placed in full reflux for approximately 15 to 20 minutes and collection begins through the collection manifold. Normally pull around to 300 mils for each plate to check on a ABV and temperature and it is done at the early stages of the run and near the beginning of the hearts as this is the fraction that we are more concerned with. This allows me to do several samplings of each plate while in the hearts.
Soon as a wash finishes I will be doing another test, with a temperature graph. Should be a fun run.
Hoochy
Re: Hoochy's experimental CM/LM column
Very interesting thread. Im new to flutes, did 5 runs so far on a new 2 plate setup. Some questions.....
You mention leaving the defleg water off and pulling fores and heads pot style. Then going into reflux for the run? Is that typical for flutes? I went the other way, doing 100% reflux for a few minutes to stack up the first crap that boils off (aldehydes, acetone etc) in the column, and then closed off the defleg a bit to let it start flowing up into the product condensor. Is that incorrect?
Is it coincidence that you started collecting tails when the first plate window fogged, or is that your indication that tails have started? For tails I noticed the vapor temp at the output shoots up and the stream trails off to real slow. At that point I closed down the defleg and ran pot mode for tails. Seem right?
Im still trying to wrap my head around the fluid dynamics that happens in a reflux still like this. Which components are first to vaporize, first to condense on teh defleg, which hang out on the plates, fractions on different plates and how heads/tails are compressed. Any words of wisdom from the flute guys here on this fluid mechanics is much appreciated
You mention leaving the defleg water off and pulling fores and heads pot style. Then going into reflux for the run? Is that typical for flutes? I went the other way, doing 100% reflux for a few minutes to stack up the first crap that boils off (aldehydes, acetone etc) in the column, and then closed off the defleg a bit to let it start flowing up into the product condensor. Is that incorrect?
Is it coincidence that you started collecting tails when the first plate window fogged, or is that your indication that tails have started? For tails I noticed the vapor temp at the output shoots up and the stream trails off to real slow. At that point I closed down the defleg and ran pot mode for tails. Seem right?
Im still trying to wrap my head around the fluid dynamics that happens in a reflux still like this. Which components are first to vaporize, first to condense on teh defleg, which hang out on the plates, fractions on different plates and how heads/tails are compressed. Any words of wisdom from the flute guys here on this fluid mechanics is much appreciated
Last edited by Jimbo on Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hoochy's experimental CM/LM column
Wow cpt, very cool build! I am excited to see how this evolves. Just out of curiosity, I assume you can only take very small quick samples off of the collection cups so you don't lose pressure and dump the upper plates, is that right or am I over complicating this?
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Re: Hoochy's experimental CM/LM column
Sorry jimbo, meant to say to adjust water flow thru the deph for a slow, drip drip collection of fores and heads.
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Re: Hoochy's experimental CM/LM column
If you shut it off completely and run in quazi pot style you will lose the ability to compress the bad stuff at the top.
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Re: Hoochy's experimental CM/LM column
Yes the first plate fogging is a great indicator that tails are on the way if not already starting to smear up the column, good time to switch jars and keep a good eye ...and the abv will start to drop faster whan this is happening.on a 4 pkate, hearts run 93 to 88, then is usually tails
Re: Hoochy's experimental CM/LM column
Jimbo congrats on the new plated column and welcome to the plated club,Captin is spot on,his column and mine run almost Identical, he And I have talk a few times on the ph and it is amazing how 2 totaly diferent stills can run with almost the same exact numbers and volumes,you will amazed once you get it down pat which should not take long they are easy to learn!
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Re: Hoochy's experimental CM/LM column
Very impressive, and inspiring, Captain. I hope a plated column is out there on my horizon somewhere, I love following these threads to learn more about them. Using this thing as an experimental platform and explaining the results really helps me understand what is going on in there. Thanks for sharing the info and the photos!captainshooch wrote:It all started one day when I asked myself, what the change in ABV is between plates on a column. I decided to build something that might help answer the question...]
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Re: Hoochy's experimental CM/LM column
Glad to help anyway I can Michigan. If you ever converted from propane to electric, and seen how great it is, hang on when you start with plated columns. Is gonna be a fun ride I am sureyou will enjoy
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Re: Hoochy's experimental CM/LM column
Very nice ..Interesting ...Very good thread.
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Re: Hoochy's experimental CM/LM column
Hey Captainshooch,
I know this is a crazy old thread, but im curious now that you've a ton of time with this if you'd change anything on the build? Also, curious if you've done the same experiment with a boiler charged with 40% low wines? If so what was the abv coming off the plates?
Thanks!
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Re: Hoochy's experimental CM/LM column
Hoochy did other stuff in other places, he also did temps of spirit on each plate, he hasn't been around for a while , you may be waiting for an answer for a fair while.
Here is a photo of one of his later rigs, he was working on this last I chatted with him.
Here is a photo of one of his later rigs, he was working on this last I chatted with him.
Re: Hoochy's experimental CM/LM column
Fair enough, thanks
I saw that on the post a pic of your rig thread, very cool!
I saw that on the post a pic of your rig thread, very cool!
There are two types of people in this world.
1. Those that can extrapolate from incomplete information.
1. Those that can extrapolate from incomplete information.