PFAS, "forever chemicals," PTFE/Teflon

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omarkeung
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PFAS, "forever chemicals," PTFE/Teflon

Post by omarkeung »

This information has been around for a while now, but here is a more current article highlighting the issues with Teflon and Teflon production (PTFE):
https://nypost.com/2022/08/09/forever-c ... man-study/

Basically, the production of PTFE (Teflon) creates "forever chemicals" that do not break down and cause several forms of cancer.

I know PTFE is the preferred material to use for gaskets in this forum (over silicone gaskets), but does this information change anything? I personally do not want to be contributing to the release of these chemicals that will be around forever poisoning the environment. Has anyone had any success using cork gaskets?
I don't mean the cork that is an amalgamation of many tiny particles of cork pressed together with an adhesive to form a shape. I mean an actual piece of cork from a cork tree. If anyone has, please let me know where I can find large contiguous pieces of cork to cut gaskets out of. I am experiencing a difficult decision when trying to determine my gaskets for my setup --I don't want to be poisoning myself, others, the environment, but I also want the gaskets to work and be (reasonably) durable.

Any suggestions any of you could provide would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
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contrahead
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Re: PFAS, "forever chemicals," PTFE/Teflon

Post by contrahead »

This article is a year old. Yes “high exposure” to polyfluoroalkyl substances (forever chemicals) might lead to infertility or cancer. Generally though exposure has been limited to items like Teflon coated cooking pans or water-resistant fibers in clothing. It was eye opening though, when the article stated than “more than 4,700 available types” of PAFS s have now been created.

Only a very tiny amount of surface area from a PTFE gasket, would be exposed to vapor in the column of a still. Small enough a surface to be of little concern. Not much health threat would be removed by eliminating such a gasket.

If you're going to worry; worry about the phthalates found in plastic liquor bottles, juice jugs and water bottles. Phthalates are EDCs (Endocrine Disrupting Chemicals) and they are found in packaged foods, shampoos, cosmetics, building materials, solvents, cleaning products, insecticides, pharmaceuticals, fragrances and children's toys. EDCs from plastics interfere with hormones and sperm counts and can cause birth defects or increase the risk of contracting breast or liver cancers.
Omnia mea mecum porto
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Yummyrum
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Re: PFAS, "forever chemicals," PTFE/Teflon

Post by Yummyrum »

Real cork is still used as seals on things like Saxaphones . It is sold in sheets to the musical instrument repairers .
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NZChris
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Re: PFAS, "forever chemicals," PTFE/Teflon

Post by NZChris »

Design your still to be sealed with flour paste and/or hemp, then you don't have to worry about it.
BoilerMaker
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Re: PFAS, "forever chemicals," PTFE/Teflon

Post by BoilerMaker »

This was discussed previously in a thread titled "forever chemicals" here: viewtopic.php?t=87990
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TwoSheds
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Re: PFAS, "forever chemicals," PTFE/Teflon

Post by TwoSheds »

Beyond the above, keep in mind that PTFE and similar are "forever chemicals" because they are so inert they don't break down readily. As such, a teflon gasket in a still should stay right where it is. IF you instead decide to machine it with a router, then you're creating a potential issue and should deal with the dust and cuttings appropriately.
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Kareltje
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Re: PFAS, "forever chemicals," PTFE/Teflon

Post by Kareltje »

We have had the same problems with asbestos, plastics and silicone: superior in use, but impossible to get rid of and very harmful in the production.
In thermodynamics there is a law of conservation of energy, I firmly believe there is a law of conservation of problem.
Each of the so called wonder materials have shown to cause unexpected wonder problems.
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Deplorable
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Re: PFAS, "forever chemicals," PTFE/Teflon

Post by Deplorable »

Humans worry about the most piddly shit. This earthe was here long before us, and will be here long after the last human draws a breath.
I am of the opinion that nothing man made will last "forever ". YMMV
Fear and ridicule are the tactics of weak-minded cowards and tyrants who have no other leadership talent from which to draw in order to persuade.
buchrob
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Re: PFAS, "forever chemicals," PTFE/Teflon

Post by buchrob »

Deplorable wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 4:38 pm Humans worry about the most piddly shit. This earthe was here long before us, and will be here long after the last human draws a breath.
I am of the opinion that nothing man made will last "forever ". YMMV
Especially not us. :oops:
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Yummyrum
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Re: PFAS, "forever chemicals," PTFE/Teflon

Post by Yummyrum »

LOL , I’m imagining archaeologists in the future digging up lumps of “everlasting gaskets “ from the “Home Distiller era”
kennstminet
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Re: PFAS, "forever chemicals," PTFE/Teflon

Post by kennstminet »

The main problem seem to be "forever chemicals" wich are toxic. PTFE is not toxic.
However, during manufacturing of PTFE a significant amount of toxic "forever chemicals" are created and released to the evironment.
Those toxic substances have poisened public US water systems.
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/03/busi ... index.html
Ifounditlikethat
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Re: PFAS, "forever chemicals," PTFE/Teflon

Post by Ifounditlikethat »

I just went down a PTFE rabbit hole the other day. It’s a lot like any other petroleum based polymer, you get what you pay for and you have to treat it right. Every time you handle most grades of Teflon microscopic particles come off of it due to its atomic structure. I’ve spent allot of time in a chemistry lab and our 2” PTFE based gaskets were $50 USD for a reason. Microscopic Teflon particles also like to hook up with hydrocarbon chains like ethanol and go for rides. Since it’s “inert” and non bio available, when the alcohol gets metabolized it stays put. While it takes allot of PTFE in your system to make you noticeably sick it also never goes away because your body can’t remove it. My advice after 12 years of playing with petroleum based polymers in a lab is to stay way from the bargain bin. The difference between the $5 one and $13 one is major. Look for something that comes with an FDA or equivalent certification. We used a special solution for new gaskets but you can soak them for 24 hours in some fore shots before their first run to “clean” them. There are also other polymers besides PTFE out there that are “safer” but the average person can’t just go out and buy them. Right now people like Elon Musk, DARPA and a few electronics/ battery companies are the only ones with access to them so it’s going to take a while before you can get a gasket made out of pDCPD off Amazon. Even then, I’m sure there will be a draw back to it for what we would use it for because it’s a petroleum based polymer, but I won’t be surprised to see an entire still made from it in 30 years.
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contrahead
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Re: PFAS, "forever chemicals," PTFE/Teflon

Post by contrahead »

Omnia mea mecum porto
cob
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Re: PFAS, "forever chemicals," PTFE/Teflon

Post by cob »

My analogy has always been that at some point in time

the planet will flush the toilet and that will be the end of humans.
be water my friend
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