Run cloudy or clear for AG whiskey wash?

[BrewinBrian44]

Hi guys,

After reading numerous threads on here about running an AG wash cloudy vs clear, I see a lot of mixed opinions from experienced members that know way more than I.

So far, I’ve ran 4 stripping runs of NCHooch Carolina Bourbon and each time I’ve just squeezed the crap out of the grains with my brewing bag and ran it cloudy. Only solids making it into the still are yeast and all washes finish at or below 1.000 SG. No idea if this is right or wrong, but in NCHooch’s recipe, he says he runs it cloudy.

I have a still spirits boiler and haven’t noticed any burnt spots on the bottom after a run, so I’m assuming no scorching of solids is happening. It’s a relatively low wattage boiler, so that might be helping me in this case.

If there’s a flavor/smell you get from running with lots of yeast in suspension, can anyone describe it? I have noticed all my bourbon low wines have a tequila like smell, but I’ve been told that’s a common heads smell.

[8Ball]

Everything that makes it past the paint strainer bag goes into my propane fired boiler. Don’t think I’ve ever ran anything clear. Most likely you are smelling the heads as was mentioned to you previously. Cuts, oaking, and aging will be your final indicators. Keep good notes.

[BrewinBrian44]

Just dumped the cloudy backset from last nights run. There was definitely a decent amount of yeast solids that settled to the bottom. One thing I noticed:

When wet, the bottom of the t500 boiler looked nice and uniformly clean, but when it air dried a bit, there's a distinct film in the shape of the heating element. It was super easy to scrub away. Is this normal? I've seen this in the past, but this time around there was a bit more.

As far as heat input, I'm basically running the thing full blast to warm up. When vapor temp reaches 170deg I reduce to 80 percent power to prevent puking. After I'm about 1/3 into collection, I crank to full power for the rest of the run. Last night the run took me 3hrs from switch on to switch off to collect 1.25 gallons of low wines.

[BrewinBrian44]

Everything that makes it past the paint strainer bag goes into my propane fired boiler. Don’t think I’ve ever ran anything clear. Most likely you are smelling the heads as was mentioned to you previously. Cuts, oaking, and aging will be your final indicators. Keep good notes.

Thanks for the feedback!

[werkkrew]

I'm struggling with the question myself right now. Historically what I have done with all grain (specifically Bourbon/high corn) washes is strain them out prior to fermentation. Generally I sparge 100% barley batches and use a laundry bag / mob wringer on my gooey corn/rye mashes. At the end of fermentation I rack off the trub/sediment and run my washes "relatively" clear.

I have done a few fermentations on-grain and my process there was to strain it in the same manner (laundry bag/mop wringer), except this time after fermentation, and run it immediately when it was still quite cloudy.

I have yet to have anything scorch on me, I don't know if that's just dumb luck or my ULWD heating element doing its job. I also can't say I have noticed a significant difference in flavor between the stuff I have fermented on/off grain or run clear vs. cloudy. Although I haven't done a directly side-by-side of the same exact recipe done in different ways.

Anyhow, it's been a long time since I fermented on grain and I recently made a batch of SCD's CROW Bourbon which I fermented on grain. After about 8 days it had fermented out dry and I strained it all out and dumped the cloudy wash back into the fermenter with plans of letting it actually clear out this time. I have seen a lot of arguments on both sides of this debate and I wanted to avoid the potential risk of off flavors from the yeast trub. I know the "big boys" in the Bourbon world ferment and distill on-grain, so I don't see how running a wash cloudy is introducing any flavors that shouldn't probably be there anyhow.

I am up against a wall now as I have to distill this batch tomorrow because my sister is coming in on Friday with her family to stay for a couple weeks and I won't get a chance to distill during that time.

Right now after sitting for 5 days my strained wash has settled as far as I think it will go (I have been marking the line on the side of the fermenter with tape since I can see exactly where the sediment line is). If I run the cleared portion of the wash I am throwing out probably 30% or more of the total batch, which I am really hesitant to do. The total batch I made was 12 gallons, after straining I had about 10.5 gallons, and after settling the cleared portion is probably around 7-8 gallons.

So I'm struggling with the decision - do I run only the cleared part and toss the sediment/trub into the next batch or something, or do I whip it back up with a paint stirrer and run the entire batch cloudy? I don't want to be greedy but I also don't want to throw out such a significant portion of my wash.

Thoughts?

[bilgriss]

For those with internal elements, running with lots of solids can increase risk of a scorch. But that's easy to mitigate by just heating slowly.
As for flavor, in theory you are cooking those solids and they should have some flavor contribution. But in reality, if you are making a corn whiskey, you already cooked the corn and that's part of the profile anyway. So I don't think it's anything to worry about.
Run It!

[werkkrew]

For those with internal elements, running with lots of solids can increase risk of a scorch. But that's easy to mitigate by just heating slowly.
As for flavor, in theory you are cooking those solids and they should have some flavor contribution. But in reality, if you are making a corn whiskey, you already cooked the corn and that's part of the profile anyway. So I don't think it's anything to worry about.
Run It!

The off flavors I was concerned about are the yeast, I have read that dead yeast "rupture" when they are cooked and can release bad flavors. I have no idea if this is accurate or not but I am leaning toward stirring it back up and running it.

[bcook608]

Hi guys,

After reading numerous threads on here about running an AG wash cloudy vs clear, I see a lot of mixed opinions from experienced members that know way more than I.

So far, I’ve ran 4 stripping runs of NCHooch Carolina Bourbon and each time I’ve just squeezed the crap out of the grains with my brewing bag and ran it cloudy. Only solids making it into the still are yeast and all washes finish at or below 1.000 SG. No idea if this is right or wrong, but in NCHooch’s recipe, he says he runs it cloudy.

I have a still spirits boiler and haven’t noticed any burnt spots on the bottom after a run, so I’m assuming no scorching of solids is happening. It’s a relatively low wattage boiler, so that might be helping me in this case.

If there’s a flavor/smell you get from running with lots of yeast in suspension, can anyone describe it? I have noticed all my bourbon low wines have a tequila like smell, but I’ve been told that’s a common heads smell.

Generally when people refer to solids in the boiler, they're referring to grain. There should be enough convection in the boiler once things are up to temp to keep yeast from settling on your element. As stated before, you MIGHT in theory have a higher risk of scorching or off flavors if you heat up on full blast, but I run my 1500w element on full open during warm up and I've never had any issues with flavor. If you're worried about it, you can separate it from the grain, then allow to settle for several days in a cold environment and rack the clear wash off of the top, but you'll lose some volume that way.

That being said, I always just pour my wash into the boiler and use my eye to stop before too much of the yeast bed is disturbed. Other than that, I don't do anything fancy.

[Setsumi]

You are worried about off flavours on a cloudy wash, are you doing a strip run and then a spirit run?

[werkkrew]

You are worried about off flavours on a cloudy wash, are you doing a strip run and then a spirit run?

I can do it that way but I was leaning towards a one and done through 2 or 3 plates.

[jonnys_spirit]

It's personal choice. I recommend trying both ways and seeing what you think

Cheers,
j

[MooseMan]

If you want to claim as much of that grain juice goodness as possible, (And I don't blame you!) If you can get it chilled somehow, it will floc more suspended particles and the trub will solidify a bit more?

Iced water through a wort chiller works, chill plate, big empty fridge/freezer etc. Even frozen water bottles will do the job to a point.
Can always put into smaller vessels to chill it, if that helps?

Also, some carrageenan or glycerol stirred in can help clear/drop solids when cold crashing?

[squigglefunk]

most are fermented and distilled on grain