electric heater, control setup

[six6guy]

evening everybody,

I'm new here, and have both thick skin and a strong sense of humor (for a software engineer)... so please feel free to laugh (at me/with me)

I have a 8g SS milk bottle with a 2" tri-clamp drain/heater port and I'm looking at hot water heaters. Amazon actually has three heating coils (Dernord brand and 4500w, 5500w, and 6500w) that look promising for me as they already have the 2" tri-clamp fitting and they have the American 220v plug right next to the tri-clamp. They look like this

I assume I can add insulation to the boiler area to protect the electrical wire insulation and the 220v plastic plug... maybe no plastic plug and use a hard wired version of the heat elements. If you guys have examples/ideas of what you have done/recommend here I'd appreciate your reply. Hell, even telling me what not to do is fine

To the point of this thread: How do you guys control the power output of the heating element? For safety reasons I'd like an on/off switch as a minimum, AND I think I'd like to use a rheostat so I can regulate the power output (indirectly the heat output). Ive found some rheostat units that can handle 220v and 10000w but they all have a disclaimer "do not use in flammable, explosive and humid environments". So if you use a rheostat what make/model is it? OR do you just switch the element it on (per say to be wide open hot) and then let it rip?

I guess I could find a multi tap transformer, so I have a few fixed outputs to work with, and then there wouldn't be a potential rheostat spark. This seems like it might be overkill, and not knowing what fixed taps I might need is another issue.


Thanks in advance
Brad

[Salt Must Flow]

Insulation helps to retain heat within the boiler, but heat from the boiler will not harm the wire insulation or the plug that connects to the element. If you ask me, I'd say you found the best heating element. I use Dernord 2" Tri-Clamp 5500W 240V heating elements. If you go with any element with exposed wire connections then you would have to figure out a way to cover/protect them. I prefer the Dernord elements because they're reliable, complete and do not require any homemade rigging to finish them.

There's quite a few different types of controllers. Some just buy an inexpensive SCR from eBay or maybe Amazon. I've never used one of those.

StillDragon has a basic, variable power controller kit and they also sell individual parts.

Auber Instruments has several different controller options. The DSPR1 is their most basic variable power controller that adjusts power from 0% to 100%. The DSPR400 is their deluxe controller. It functions as a variable controller as well as a PID controller. It has multiple user set temp alarms, many different settings and smart functions that I may never end up fully using. If I'm not mistaken, the other Auber units are mostly geared towards brewing. To build a DSPR400 you will need an enclosure/project box. You'll need a RTD Sensor, a Panel Mount for RTD Sensor, RTD Extension Cable (to connect the panel mount to the controller), a SSR (ideally 40A), a heatsink and Thermal Grease or a Thermal Pad. There are other bells & whistles that can be added like a power switch, alarm buzzer/light, alarm kill switch, LED indicator light as well as a fan to aid in cooling the heatsink. It may sound like a lot of BS to build a controller, but the Auber DSPR 400 is the best controller I've ever seen. I've built two of them and I don't know if there's a better one that's made these days.

Whatever type of controller you want, if you have any questions about the wiring, there are wiring diagrams available that people can direct you to. If you find a wiring diagram or draw one yourself, a lot of people here can double check it.

[Yonder]

There are excellent threads on controllers here, including 220 ones. The parts needed are all identified and readily available on Amazon.

[Yummyrum]

+1 with the Auber stuff . You definitely will need a controller on an 8Gal boiler after heatup with that element .

[six6guy]

Thanks guys. My eyes have already gone crossed for today, but looking forward to reading in the next few days..

Brad

[PLAYMP]

I will always go with those Dernord elements with the attached plugs even if it's a few extra bucks over the ones you have to wire yourself. Everyone has a different set up but I found with the natural jostling my element goes through in the set up and tear down process, I would always have to check the connections on my hard-wired element to make sure nothing came loose. These elements are built for hot water heaters and industrial settings where they aren't touched as much. There's a post on here I wish I could find but someone showed that theirs had a loose connection that had totally melted some of the plastic housing where the connectors were, disaster waiting to happen...

[BoilerMaker]

+1 on Auber (DSPR400)

I prefer a solid splash-proof connection of cord to element at the boiler, with the plug/receptacle at the controller. In my limited brew space there's a lot of foot traffic around the boiler, plus constant water/beer and cleaning splashing around, so it's nice to have that joint be worry free. The element is Camco 5500 watt stainless ULWD which always has good reviews with no rusting at the element base. When done I rinse off with water if needed and spray/wipe with starsan.

https://www.brewershardware.com/2-Tri-C ... apter.html

https://www.camco.net/stainless-steel-r ... bulk-02965

Camco 02964/02965 (5500W) and brewershardware TC20EEA

Camco 02964/02965 (5500W) and brewershardware TC20EEA

[Edit: Camco 5500W element is P/N 02965 purchased in bulk, or 02964 purchased individually.]

[Salt Must Flow]

+1 on Auber (DSPR400)

I prefer a solid splash-proof connection of cord to element at the boiler, with the plug/receptacle at the controller. In my limited brew space there's a lot of foot traffic around the boiler, plus constant water/beer and cleaning splashing around, so it's nice to have that joint be worry free. The element is Camco 5500 watt stainless ULWD which always has good reviews with no rusting at the element base. When done I rinse off with water if needed and spray/wipe with starsan.

https://www.brewershardware.com/2-Tri-C ... apter.html

https://www.camco.net/stainless-steel-r ... bulk-02965

Camco-02965_Brewershardware-TC20EEA_1.jpg
Camco-02965_Brewershardware-TC20EEA_2.jpg

I can understand that perspective. The Dernord elements I've always used are these 2" Tri-Clamp elements that come with an element guard to protect the wired connections. They're about $60, but you do need a length of cable plus a female Twist Lock plug.

That's precisely what I like about these Dernord elements. They have all the different options. They're definitely a more affordable option than having to buy a heating element THEN have to buy an element guard. Before these were even available I bought a Camco element and a Still Dragon Element Guard. Not cheap.

[Salt Must Flow]

I will always go with those Dernord elements with the attached plugs even if it's a few extra bucks over the ones you have to wire yourself. Everyone has a different set up but I found with the natural jostling my element goes through in the set up and tear down process, I would always have to check the connections on my hard-wired element to make sure nothing came loose. These elements are built for hot water heaters and industrial settings where they aren't touched as much. There's a post on here I wish I could find but someone showed that theirs had a loose connection that had totally melted some of the plastic housing where the connectors were, disaster waiting to happen...

I've seen that post too. It made me wonder if we should be putting a little Blue Loctite or Rocksett (threadlocker) on the threads.

[BoilerMaker]

I wonder if the Dernord elements are different and better quality than the ones I remember seeing yrs ago. All the better for us to have more affordable solutions that work well. The brewershardware element/triclamp adapter is quite large and has an inner grounding lug too, so working a 10/3 SOOW cord into it and attaching wires isn't so bad. I haven't used the Dernord so I can't compare that, or how substantial the terminals are. In any case, both would probably work for me, the main thing is to have something solid cause I'm not easy on equipment. I'll spend more on stuff if I don't have to f with it later. Y'all would be shocked to know how much I've spent on Alfa Laval clamps.

[Chucker]

I’ve used both the hardwired version and currently the plug style. I found the hardwired one rather restrictive in its terminal space to get a reliable connection. It seemed to work okay but inspection at the end of the season showed the plastic around the terminal screws to have melted at a bit. Not burned, but not what I wanted to see, either.
Any termination connection point has a potential for failure, so it needs to be monitored for any indication of excessive resistance.
For a controller I’ve just gone with a simple SCR. The SCR tends to run a bit warm so I ventilated the box and added a muffin fan to help it breathe. I’ve added a simple analog current meter so that I have a reference to the output when I adjust the dial, even if it isn’t necessarily accurate. These were simple, cheap Amazon parts that I added to a box with a local shutoff. I added a couple of simple indicators to let me know from across the garage if the breaker going to the local box is on. It’s nothing fancy but does the job.

[Salt Must Flow]

I wonder if the Dernord elements are different and better quality than the ones I remember seeing yrs ago. All the better for us to have more affordable solutions that work well. The brewershardware element/triclamp adapter is quite large and has an inner grounding lug too, so working a 10/3 SOOW cord into it and attaching wires isn't so bad. I haven't used the Dernord so I can't compare that, or how substantial the terminals are. In any case, both would probably work for me, the main thing is to have something solid cause I'm not easy on equipment. I'll spend more on stuff if I don't have to f with it later. Y'all would be shocked to know how much I've spent on Alfa Laval clamps.

The only thing I don't love about the Dernord element which includes the element guard is the plastic gland fitting. I replaced one with a metal one from a local hardware store without even trying it, but I used the plastic one on my 2nd element. Neither has given me any problems, but I'm not all that rough on stuff. They have a ground terminal too and I've never had any issues making the connections. The terminals seem just as sound as my other Camco element. I'm thoroughly satisfied with the Dernord elements. Even the plating on the element itself is holding up great (no rust or flaking). My older Camco has rust where the element meets the main body, but that's to be expected since it's not their newer stainless version.

[Sean_Jeremy]

Auber Instruments has several different controller options. The DSPR1 is their most basic variable power controller that adjusts power from 0% to 100%. The DSPR400 is their deluxe controller. It functions as a variable controller as well as a PID controller. It has multiple user set temp alarms, many different settings and smart functions that I may never end up fully using. If I'm not mistaken, the other Auber units are mostly geared towards brewing. To build a DSPR400 you will need an enclosure/project box. You'll need a RTD Sensor, a Panel Mount for RTD Sensor, RTD Extension Cable (to connect the panel mount to the controller), a SSR (ideally 40A), a heatsink and Thermal Grease or a Thermal Pad. There are other bells & whistles that can be added like a power switch, alarm buzzer/light, alarm kill switch, LED indicator light as well as a fan to aid in cooling the heatsink. It may sound like a lot of BS to build a controller, but the Auber DSPR 400 is the best controller I've ever seen. I've built two of them and I don't know if there's a better one that's made these days.

This is quite helpful as I too look at powering my boiler. Dernord element plus building a DSPR 400 (ordering everything from Auber) would be right around $260, though I assume there will be some wire/cord/plugs I'm probably not accounting for.

A simpler, but complete, controller with element from OakStills is $180: https://oakstills.com/products/variable ... v-240v-1ph

Price is close enough that I'm considering putting together the superior DSPR 400.

Thanks for clearly laying out another option.