Buccaneer Bob's Silver, Gold, and Black Rum Recipe

[Mischka43]

First of all, thanks to Buccaneer Bob for sharing this recipe. You rock man! Love the taste and the process and it's so easy to follow.

I do have a question though. Has anyone ever had their wash fermenting out in 48hrs?

Here is what happened.

I have made 5 generations of 25L batches previously, so my dunderpit is in full swing.
In anticipation of my new 50L still arriving soon, I started a big batch (~160L) in a 220L Barrel.
Previously I just used an airlock on a 25L fermenter and let it sit for a while, sometimes weeks before I had time to make a run. So this is the first time I am actually monitoring the process closely using the hydrometer.
I used ~40kg of molasses and 5kg sugar, unfortunately I had only about 6L of dunder left to add in order to keep the Pit going.
I was aiming for an OG of 1090 and ended up with 1095. I used a couple of Lemons to adjust the PH to 5.3
I hydrated 300g of bakers yeast and pitched at 25degrees.
Before pitching I stirred the sh*** out of the wash to aerate as much as possible. I did so again before going to bed that night and also the next morning.
By that time the wash was already frothing like crazy.



Coming back that evening, the action was actually stronger than pouring a glass of coke. Like a 100mm layer of foam that seemed to disappear quickly but was replenished at the same rate from underneath. This made it impossible to get a hydrometer reading.

In the morning of day 3 however all foam had gone and there was only slight bubbling. The hydrometer read at 1042. By the evening it had settled bang on 1040 and has been there for the last couple of days.

This seems to be very very fast to me in terms of fermentation time. Does anybody else have similar experiences?

A few more comments:
1. Most of my previous molasses washes ended up around 1030 final gravity, and this one had way less sugar in it. So I assume that the rest is just unfermentable "junk" and I am ok with this.
2. The only interesting other think I noticed, was that the wash maintained the 25 degrees temperature all by itself with an ambient temperature of 22 during the day and 15 degrees at night...

Thanks for your comments

[Buccaneer Bob]

Hi Mischka43, yeah, I've had some ferocious ferments, but nothing like that. Holy cow!

And an FG of 1.040 is actually pretty good for molasses. With my feed-grade molasses, I usually come out around 1.050. So yeah, you're doing good with that.

Thanks for the feedback.

[Kareltje]

I was looking for some new rum recipe and this struck me, so I tried to work out a suitable modus operandi for me. Especially while I want to make some runs with two thumpers.
I did not read the whole thread so maybe I missed an earlier comment on this, but I became more and more surprised as I chewed on your procedure. I see three very specific parts in your procedure.

1) You add taste into your mash by boiling sloppings and dunder into your initial recipe. That is quite common. But than:
2) You are very keen in removing initial tastes in your distillate: cleaning the molasses by letting solids set down before adding yeast. And than in the strip run collecting the destillate through a cloth to keep out the oils and even screening the destillate for floating oils and collecting them from the surface. And then for the spirit run you advise a very slow start and again a collection through cotton cloth. So I gather your white rum must be as clean as possible. Almost a neutral. Seems to be more effort than most people do.
3) But then on purpose you add taste from the spillings from the strip run. Spillings that are considered waste by most distillers.

And you are not very specific on your dunder. You seem to have a dunderpit, but I did not see how you made it. It also seems you use the concepts spilling and dunder like synonyms.

What are your ideas about these ideas?

[Buccaneer Bob]

Hi Kareltje, how's it going?

2) You are very keen in removing initial tastes in your distillate: cleaning the molasses by letting solids set down before adding yeast. And than in the strip run collecting the destillate through a cloth to keep out the oils and even screening the destillate for floating oils and collecting them from the surface. And then for the spirit run you advise a very slow start and again a collection through cotton cloth. So I gather your white rum must be as clean as possible. Almost a neutral. Seems to be more effort than most people do.

Yeah, no, it's nowhere near neutral.

In the first run, it's going to taste like something that was wrung out of a dirty dishrag. That's why I recommend adding extra water on the spirit run, to sponge-up some of that twang.

And even after the second run, it's still gonna have some of that dishrag twang. But if you put it on some oak for a bit, and maybe oxidize it with some shaking, it will actually get pretty darn nice.

And if you mix in some "Dark Rum Essence", it's going to be magical.

2) 3) But then on purpose you add taste from the spillings from the strip run. Spillings that are considered waste by most distillers.

And you are not very specific on your dunder. You seem to have a dunderpit, but I did not see how you made it. It also seems you use the concepts spilling and dunder like synonyms.

What are your ideas about these ideas?

I guess I call "dunder" what you are calling "spillings". But it is that thick black liquid left in the still after you finish your stripping run.

Use a bit of that to make a "Dark Rum Essence" and put the rest into a bucket and let microbes have at it for awhile. You'll get some mold on top and sludge on bottom, but somewhere in the middle will have some twangy funk that you can use to add complexity to your rum.

Anyway, moreover, I have taken a "proof is in the pudding" view of this process. It has room for improvement, but if you follow the recipe as it's written, you should end up with some really nice rum.

[MonkeyRumKing]

Hi all. I'm trying this recipe for the first time and it's also my first attempt at anything after my sacrificial run of course. I can't go by taste yet because I have no frame of reference. I've been taking SG and I've come up with a question for which I cannot seem to find a previously posted topic. My OG prior to adding sugar was 1.105, which seems high based on other's posts. My SG just before adding the sugar was 1.060. That's a potential ABV of 6.82%. My SG after adding the sugar was 1.108 and now, 15 days from the start of my ferment, it's at 1.058 which is a potential ABV of 7.6%. My question is, do I add those two potential ABV numbers together? If so, I think this is about done. Two days ago it was 1.059 and now it's 1.058. Sorry if this answer is out there. Thanks in advance for your help.

[Rum Agol]

I get 5.8 and 6.45 from the calculator. 1.058 seems high to me even for an all molly rum with a lot of unfermentables which this isnt. Have you tasted it? does it taste sweet? Why did you add extra sugar 1.105 fermented dry would give you about 13.5% which is high anyway. I dont think youve followed the receipe correctly.

[MonkeyRumKing]

Sorry for the confusion. I only used the sugar suggested in the recipe. I didn't add any above and beyond that. The sugar isn't added to the wash right away. The molasses ferments for a few days, then you add the sugar. I'm trying to figure out if you add the potential ABV calc before the sugar to the calc after. Otherwise I won't get anywhere near 14%, unless I'm totally not getting something.

[StillerBoy]

Two days ago it was 1.059 and now it's 1.058. Sorry if this answer is out there.

You were provided with an answer concerning if there was fermenting going on in your thread..
viewtopic.php?t=87741
by NZChris » Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:19 pm
As long as it keeps dropping it's ok.

The answer provided was, "if it had stopped fermenting the SG would have also stopped, but since it is still moving, then there's still fermentation activity going on, but very slooowly, which was caused by the improperly addition of the extra sugar.. the recipe was not followed properly.. the recipe calls for a good stir before adding the additional sugar which was not done, the yeast were hurt big time..

As to calculating the ABV potential, that will be almost impossible cause of the manner the addition was made..

Mars

[MonkeyRumKing]

Gotcha. Thanks Mars. I was pretty sure it wasn't done because it dropped, but what I really wanted to know is if I could figure out potential ABV. Now I know I can't. Thanks to everyone again. I really appreciate the help!

[NZChris]

You know how much alcohol you had before you added the sugar, the second SG drop will tell you the alcohol you got after the addition.

[StillerBoy]

You know how much alcohol you had before you added the sugar, the second SG drop will tell you the alcohol you got after the addition.

Maybe / maybe not.. all base on assumptions that the fermentation did what it should of done.. but the yeast were badly damaged with the addition, and who know what other issues there were, not discounting what the ABV of wash was at the time of the addition.. many things could of cause what has happening, but one is for sure, the addition was not made properly and damage the yeast..

Maybe more / maybe less, it wouldn't be determine until it's stripped, and that went the answer will be provided, until then it just a guess game and a waste of time..

If the SG doesn't move for a few days, strip it and get the learning lesson..

Mars

[NZChris]

You know how much alcohol you had before you added the sugar, the second SG drop will tell you the alcohol you got after the addition.

Maybe / maybe not.. all base on assumptions that the fermentation did what it should of done.. but the yeast were badly damaged with the addition, and who know what other issues there were, not discounting what the ABV of wash was at the time of the addition.. many things could of cause what has happening, but one is for sure, the addition was not made properly and damage the yeast..

Maybe more / maybe less, it wouldn't be determine until it's stripped, and that went the answer will be provided, until then it just a guess game and a waste of time..

If the SG doesn't move few a few days, strip it and get the learning lesson..

Mars

The SG is dropping, so the yeast is still alive and working.

[StillerBoy]

The SG is dropping, so the yeast is still alive and working.

Right.. but what amount of yeast are still alive and working,, that's the sixty four thousand dollar question, not discounting what off flavors are being generated, otherwise it would have been done by now, as rum don't take over 2 weeks to be done if done properly..

Only time will be the determinator..

Mars

[MonkeyRumKing]

Thanks again guys. I'll report back on my sugar shock post when it's all said and done.

[shadylane]

Thanks again guys. I'll report back on my sugar shock post when it's all said and done.

Thanks, keep us posted on the outcome.
We learn more from mistakes than success.

[dunluce]

Thanks to Buccaneer Bob again for a great recipe.

This may have been covered elsewhere, but I do a small bit of a change in procedure that some others might find useful. Instead of the normal addition of the yeast, I actually start working on my yeast right away. I have some yeast stored in the fridge in a mason jar, about a 1/2 a litre of solution from what I prepare. My thinking is that if the molasses solution needs 2 hrs to cool down, then that is plenty time to produce a vigorous batch of yeast. I also believe getting a small 2hr taste of the molasses first is beneficial.

(Sorry for the metric....substitute 'quart' for 'litre' and it will be close enough (or vary to your taste)

1. Take the stored yeast out of the fridge. I keep it in a 1.9L Mason jar, and pour off most of the liquid, trying not to disturb the sleeping layer of yeast on the bottom.
2. Top up with 3/4 of the way with water, shake, and redistribute equally into 4 mason jars (I have lots on hand, you may want to try another container method).
3. At this point, I figure the little yeasties are just waking up from their frigid slumber, so I let them go ahead and get their morning coffee before bothering them again.
4. I now carry on with the recipe, pouring the molasses into the water pot.
5. I refill the molasses container with warm water and swirl to get as much molasses out of the container as possible.
6. At this point, the yeasties have finished their morning coffee and are looking for breakfast, so let's feed them. 1 tbsp of sugar into each jar, and then I pour in some of the molasses water from the container to give them a taste of what is to come. Jars are filled 2/3 of the way to give lots of room to work.
7. Put a lid on tight, give a quick shake to oxygenize, and loosen the lid even quicker (don't make yeast bombs, the spouse will NOT be amused).
8. Let the yeasties get their groove on for a couple of hours until it is time to rack the solution into the fermenter and add the yeast.
9. Save some of the yeast solution, and store in the fridge until next batch.

I have a nice ferment going on, and it does seem to be more vigorous using this method.

[Buccaneer Bob]

Well thank you, Dunluce, for the input on your yeast handling. That sounds like a great plan.

[WayFastJett]

question about dunder. i had to start my pit over. i have a 20L pail it was about 2/3's full with 3 generations. when i went to take some out for gen 4 there was a dense layer of bluish green mold on top. while disposing of it it was very "dusty" so lots of spores (respirator and out doors during the disposing). not sure if i did something wrong or if this would have been ok but need some input and maybe some pics of good running pits if possible.

[WayFastJett]

question about dunder. i had to start my pit over. i have a 20L pail it was about 2/3's full with 3 generations. when i went to take some out for gen 4 there was a dense layer of bluish green mold on top. while disposing of it it was very "dusty" so lots of spores (respirator and out doors during the disposing). not sure if i did something wrong or if this would have been ok but need some input and maybe some pics of good running pits if possible.

this one is about 4 weeks old, was covered with cheese cloth and in a cool room. the above cleaning was a 30minute soak with brew masters cleaner then before filling a spray of star san. not sure if this is how its supposed to be or not but dont want to use unless i know this isnt a big issue so long as i use a racking cane and carefully take only some from below.

[Buccaneer Bob]

question about dunder. i had to start my pit over. i have a 20L pail it was about 2/3's full with 3 generations. when i went to take some out for gen 4 there was a dense layer of bluish green mold on top. while disposing of it it was very "dusty" so lots of spores (respirator and out doors during the disposing). not sure if i did something wrong or if this would have been ok but need some input and maybe some pics of good running pits if possible.

this one is about 4 weeks old, was covered with cheese cloth and in a cool room. the above cleaning was a 30minute soak with brew masters cleaner then before filling a spray of star san. not sure if this is how its supposed to be or not but dont want to use unless i know this isnt a big issue so long as i use a racking cane and carefully take only some from below.

Looking down inside the bucket, I don't see a lot of dunder in there (maybe a liter or two?). If that's the case, I would probably throw out that little bit and start over.

Going forward, if you have plenty of time on your hands, you could stir your dunder once a day to keep the mold at bay.

Or you could let the top develop a big spongy layer of mold and then, very carefully, siphon your dunder from underneath the sponge.

I've done it both ways, and both work well.

[acfixer69]

God dam you rummies are a daring gang. Bless ya lookin for the angels share.

[welly]

Am coming to the tail end of fermentation of a 40L batch of this. I'm looking forward to seeing what happens to it! I've not had anything consistently ferment for the length of time it has been doing - it's been going basically for two weeks constantly and it's still bubbling away, although dropped to a few seconds between bubbles in my blow off tube/jar. So it's a pretty healthy fermentation I'd say. Used the dunder from a batch of Saltbush Bill's all molasses rum.

Am looking forward to getting this into the still, perhaps next weekend

[Wildcats]

Am coming to the tail end of fermentation of a 40L batch of this. I'm looking forward to seeing what happens to it! I've not had anything consistently ferment for the length of time it has been doing - it's been going basically for two weeks constantly and it's still bubbling away, although dropped to a few seconds between bubbles in my blow off tube/jar. So it's a pretty healthy fermentation I'd say. Used the dunder from a batch of Saltbush Bill's all molasses rum.

Am looking forward to getting this into the still, perhaps next weekend

Looking forward to seeing how this goes for you.

[welly]

Am coming to the tail end of fermentation of a 40L batch of this. I'm looking forward to seeing what happens to it! I've not had anything consistently ferment for the length of time it has been doing - it's been going basically for two weeks constantly and it's still bubbling away, although dropped to a few seconds between bubbles in my blow off tube/jar. So it's a pretty healthy fermentation I'd say. Used the dunder from a batch of Saltbush Bill's all molasses rum.

Am looking forward to getting this into the still, perhaps next weekend

Looking forward to seeing how this goes for you.

Likewise! If all goes well, I'm hoping this will be the start of a multi-generational rum and I'll just keep making it and seeing how it improves. Toying with the idea of some sort of dunder pit - I have been keeping dunder from other batches but just keeping it in a demijohn jar rather than covering it but letting it open to the elements. I may try it with at least some of the backset from distillation.

[welly]

I've just taken a gravity reading and it read about 1.100 which seems to be odd. I must confess I didn't take a gravity reading at the start but honestly, up until a couple of days ago the blow off tube on my fermenter I've got dunked into a glass of starsan was bubbling away like there was no tomorrow. It feels like fermentation has been massively healthy and frantic. It was like that for about a week and a half possibly longer. It's still bubbling away but less frantic now.

Ingredients wise, I just doubled everything in the recipe to make a 40 litre batch and was pretty careful that I didn't go over the scaled up amounts. I'll leave it but pretty surprised the gravity reading is still so high.

Just to clarify, I used 8L of molasses, 4L of dunder, following the instructions (but scaling up), and then after a couple of days I added 5kg of sugar which I mixed with water to dissolve it and then added it to the fermenter which topped up to just over 40L. So everything seems to be correct scale wise.

All a bit odd and unexpected! I'd have expected it to be more or less done now after 2 weeks.

Also, had a bit of a taste and it was still sweet but certainly not "rot your teeth" sweet.. and a bit sour at the same time. I'm in no huge rush to run this through the still so will leave it at least until next weekend and see where we are end of next week.

[NZChris]

I've just taken a gravity reading and it read about 1.100 which seems to be odd. I must confess I didn't take a gravity reading at the start but honestly, up until a couple of days ago the blow off tube on my fermenter I've got dunked into a glass of starsan was bubbling away like there was no tomorrow. It feels like fermentation has been massively healthy and frantic. It was like that for about a week and a half possibly longer. It's still bubbling away but less frantic now.

SG readings are only really important when you suspect something has gone wrong.

There are plenty of posts saying that SG can't be relied on for molasses washes. Ignore them all and record the SGs anyway, as the SG drop is useful.

Even when you make a sugar addition during a ferment, the SG drop after the addition means that you can estimate how much of that sugar has been converted into alcohol.

[welly]

I've just taken a gravity reading and it read about 1.100 which seems to be odd. I must confess I didn't take a gravity reading at the start but honestly, up until a couple of days ago the blow off tube on my fermenter I've got dunked into a glass of starsan was bubbling away like there was no tomorrow. It feels like fermentation has been massively healthy and frantic. It was like that for about a week and a half possibly longer. It's still bubbling away but less frantic now.

SG readings are only really important when you suspect something has gone wrong.

There are plenty of posts saying that SG can't be relied on for molasses washes. Ignore them all and record the SGs anyway, as the SG drop is useful.

Even when you make a sugar addition during a ferment, the SG drop after the addition means that you can estimate how much of that sugar has been converted into alcohol.

Cheers Chris!

That makes sense and 99/100 I take an OG reading. For some reason I didn't this time, which is annoying. But never mind, it's definitely fermenting and it was fermenting hard so surely some alcohol was being produced! I'll run it in a week or so and see what ABV it starts coming off the still at.

[Garouda]

Another example of dunder, I need my boiler, so I transferred it into a plastic tank.

After two months, end of March in fact, we can clearly see various moulds growing on the surface...

[WayFastJett]

I've just taken a gravity reading and it read about 1.100 which seems to be odd. I must confess I didn't take a gravity reading at the start but honestly, up until a couple of days ago the blow off tube on my fermenter I've got dunked into a glass of starsan was bubbling away like there was no tomorrow. It feels like fermentation has been massively healthy and frantic. It was like that for about a week and a half possibly longer. It's still bubbling away but less frantic now.

Ingredients wise, I just doubled everything in the recipe to make a 40 litre batch and was pretty careful that I didn't go over the scaled up amounts. I'll leave it but pretty surprised the gravity reading is still so high.

Just to clarify, I used 8L of molasses, 4L of dunder, following the instructions (but scaling up), and then after a couple of days I added 5kg of sugar which I mixed with water to dissolve it and then added it to the fermenter which topped up to just over 40L. So everything seems to be correct scale wise.

All a bit odd and unexpected! I'd have expected it to be more or less done now after 2 weeks.

Also, had a bit of a taste and it was still sweet but certainly not "rot your teeth" sweet.. and a bit sour at the same time. I'm in no huge rush to run this through the still so will leave it at least until next weekend and see where we are end of next week.

my wash is pretty much same 8kg molasses, 4-6L dunder, 4L trub, and 2 days later 4KG, 1 tablespoon cirtic acid and using bakers yeast. my SG is in the 1.060-1.065 range and my estimated range after sugar is 1.100. after 3 weeks my FG is 1.020-1.022. i have done 7 complete batches with these results and #8 is looking same with a week to go before running. sounds to me you are getting roughly same results.

[welly]

How do we feel about a 1.111 original gravity using DADY yeast? I think it's possibly a touch high but not beyond the realms of possibility! I was using Black Treacle rather than molasses and it turns out black treacle has a lot more sugar in than molasses.