First large batch mash
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- venkman
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First large batch mash
Well, last week I got my keg mostly built out for use. Got a nice 1" drain, a 2" tc ferrule down low, with a Dernord 5500watt element, and some nice casters. Using a basic cheap 220v SCR controller for now. I'm going to put a larger ferrule on top and a fill port at some point, but for now the Sanke 2" serves my purposes.
I have all the 2" column/condenser/defleg parts to run this as a CM Reflux or a Pot, so I put everything on and did a full vinegar cleaning run. Then I used an old bottle of Everclear cut down to 30% with water along with some feints I had left over from my last two Vevor runs to do a sacrificial ethanol cleaning run.
I decided now with a clean system, I would use the ideas I got from SCD's Easy Large Batch Mashing and make a slight twist on Booner's Casual All Corn because of what I had on hand.
This past Saturday I did a keg charge of fully boiling water over 25lbs of cracked corn into a blue HDPE barrel. I let that sit while I heated up the next charge. I did a second charge over another 25lbs into the same barrel, then stirred everything real good with a drill mixer. When the temp hit about 185F, I added 3lbs of flaked rye and 2lb of toasted Quaker oats. That comes out to 90% corn, 6% rye, and 4% oats. Then I put in SebStar HTL at the recommended application rate.
I let that sit all day and overnight with the barrel wrapped up in blankets. Sunday morning, the temp was 148F. I added the recommended amount of SebAmyl GL, let it work for about two hours and then unwrapped all the blankets to let everything cool.
It was late afternoon on Monday before temp came down to 90F. At that point I added about 2 Tbsp of DAP, stirred. The PH came in at 4.9 and SG was 1.052. I pitched about 100g of bakers yeast. Now we wait... I saw some bubbling starting up when I checked it before bed. Tuesday morning it was roaring away. I checked it again this morning and the floating grain/yeast cap had sunk and it looked to be clearing a bit, but still very actively bubbling. I checked SG and it's at 0.998 (temperature adjusted - it read 0.996 at 80F) and still bubbling away.
Excited to see how dry it gets and VERY excited to do my first run on the new keg. It tastes dry and bitter. I plan to do this batch in two stripping runs and then a pot distillation spirit run of the low wines. My focus this time around is going to be on making the best cuts I can, using smaller sampling jars. Any and all feedback/advice are welcome.
I have all the 2" column/condenser/defleg parts to run this as a CM Reflux or a Pot, so I put everything on and did a full vinegar cleaning run. Then I used an old bottle of Everclear cut down to 30% with water along with some feints I had left over from my last two Vevor runs to do a sacrificial ethanol cleaning run.
I decided now with a clean system, I would use the ideas I got from SCD's Easy Large Batch Mashing and make a slight twist on Booner's Casual All Corn because of what I had on hand.
This past Saturday I did a keg charge of fully boiling water over 25lbs of cracked corn into a blue HDPE barrel. I let that sit while I heated up the next charge. I did a second charge over another 25lbs into the same barrel, then stirred everything real good with a drill mixer. When the temp hit about 185F, I added 3lbs of flaked rye and 2lb of toasted Quaker oats. That comes out to 90% corn, 6% rye, and 4% oats. Then I put in SebStar HTL at the recommended application rate.
I let that sit all day and overnight with the barrel wrapped up in blankets. Sunday morning, the temp was 148F. I added the recommended amount of SebAmyl GL, let it work for about two hours and then unwrapped all the blankets to let everything cool.
It was late afternoon on Monday before temp came down to 90F. At that point I added about 2 Tbsp of DAP, stirred. The PH came in at 4.9 and SG was 1.052. I pitched about 100g of bakers yeast. Now we wait... I saw some bubbling starting up when I checked it before bed. Tuesday morning it was roaring away. I checked it again this morning and the floating grain/yeast cap had sunk and it looked to be clearing a bit, but still very actively bubbling. I checked SG and it's at 0.998 (temperature adjusted - it read 0.996 at 80F) and still bubbling away.
Excited to see how dry it gets and VERY excited to do my first run on the new keg. It tastes dry and bitter. I plan to do this batch in two stripping runs and then a pot distillation spirit run of the low wines. My focus this time around is going to be on making the best cuts I can, using smaller sampling jars. Any and all feedback/advice are welcome.
Time, patience, and perseverance will accomplish all things.
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Re: First large batch mash
Keg build is looking good man.
I'm running 2 of those controllers and find them adequate. I overpowered them by more than double over the element power.
Only thing I'd suggest is to get some copper into the vapour path if you can.
I'm running 2 of those controllers and find them adequate. I overpowered them by more than double over the element power.
Only thing I'd suggest is to get some copper into the vapour path if you can.
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- venkman
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Re: First large batch mash
Thanks MooseMan. I have that column section below the sight glass packed pretty well with copper mesh. But I didn't plan on using that section when I run it in pot mode. Maybe I'll rethink that and just run it like it's set up in the pic, but with the dephlegmator turned off? What do you think? This batch is going to be corn whiskey for aging, so I definitely want to run it in pot mode. Will the passive reflux from that extra column height mess me up?
When I was doing the cleaning run, I ran it with no cooling at all for the vinegar and let that go for a half hour, then turned on just the product condenser and ran like that for another half hour. Then when I did the sacrificial alcohol run I played around with the dephleg cooling and power, just to get a feel for how the whole rig runs with my water pump and barrel of water. The water barrel got too hot to get a good steady balance through the run, so I might need a fresh water feed and drain to waste if I'm going to try that. I have a lot to learn all around, but I'm going to put reflux skills on the back burner for now, as it's secondary consideration for me. I may start playing around with some vodkas and gins sooner or later, but for now the first bunch of batches will be whiskey. My old lady likes vodka, but we both like whiskey.
When I was doing the cleaning run, I ran it with no cooling at all for the vinegar and let that go for a half hour, then turned on just the product condenser and ran like that for another half hour. Then when I did the sacrificial alcohol run I played around with the dephleg cooling and power, just to get a feel for how the whole rig runs with my water pump and barrel of water. The water barrel got too hot to get a good steady balance through the run, so I might need a fresh water feed and drain to waste if I'm going to try that. I have a lot to learn all around, but I'm going to put reflux skills on the back burner for now, as it's secondary consideration for me. I may start playing around with some vodkas and gins sooner or later, but for now the first bunch of batches will be whiskey. My old lady likes vodka, but we both like whiskey.
Time, patience, and perseverance will accomplish all things.
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Re: First large batch mash
Well, disclaimer I'm no master at this but if that was my rig, and I wanted a corn whisky, I'd run it as follows.
On top of the boiler, sight glass, bare section, elbows, PC.
Stuff a bit of loose scrubbie into the sight glass if you can, and on the end of the PC spout maybe, if you can get something to fit? You just need some copper in there to contact the vapour/distillate in my option.
I wouldn't "Pack" the section with scrubbie though, you'll strip flavour out of your whisky.
On top of the boiler, sight glass, bare section, elbows, PC.
Stuff a bit of loose scrubbie into the sight glass if you can, and on the end of the PC spout maybe, if you can get something to fit? You just need some copper in there to contact the vapour/distillate in my option.
I wouldn't "Pack" the section with scrubbie though, you'll strip flavour out of your whisky.
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- Salt Must Flow
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Re: First large batch mash
No, it will not mess anything up. I use copper mesh (4 rolls) at the base of my riser when I do stripping runs. I also use copper mesh (4 rolls) at the base of the riser when I do spirit runs with a basic pot still. Yes, you can leave the dephlegmator turned off and use it as a riser segment. It will only lengthen the height of the riser as long as you don't run any water.venkman wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2023 5:51 pm Thanks MooseMan. I have that column section below the sight glass packed pretty well with copper mesh. But I didn't plan on using that section when I run it in pot mode. Maybe I'll rethink that and just run it like it's set up in the pic, but with the dephlegmator turned off? What do you think? This batch is going to be corn whiskey for aging, so I definitely want to run it in pot mode. Will the passive reflux from that extra column height mess me up?
I also use copper mesh (4 rolls) at the base of my column when I do spirit runs with my reflux column.
- venkman
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Re: First large batch mash
Update: I had about 28 gallons of water that went into the fermenter with the corn. I racked off 14 gallons and ran a stripping run on it. While that was running I started clearing all the corn, squeezing with the mop press. That's still sitting to settle out and be run, but it looks like I have about 11ish gallons of beer from that batch left to run. The corn soaked up a lot of liquid that never came back out. The first stripping run (14 gallons) yielded me about 3.5 gallons of low wines at 30% abv. That works out to just over 7% in the original beer which is where I thought I was. That was encouraging. So the remaining 11 gallons for the next strip should net me 2.6ish gallons of 30% abv low wines.
I decided since we're talking about 6 gallons of low wines, I'd want more for a spirit run. I went ahead and started up another large batch of (almost) the same recipe. This time, I did 3 keg charges of boiling water (45 gallons) and 80lbs of corn. I didn't have any more flaked rye or oatmeal on hand for this second batch. Gravity was a little higher, 1.060. Pitched it yesterday and today it's going crazy.
If it finishes out as dry as the first batch, and assuming I'll lose a similar portion of the liquid that goes in, I figure this will get me about 11 more gallons of 30% abv low wines. So in total, 17, ie. probably more than I can fit in a single spirit run. I haven't decided whether to run the two batches separately or what. Too much low wines. A good problem I guess haha. What to do? I was thinking I'd blend all the low wines together, 17 or so gallons, then just save some back for later, running the boiler as full as I can and still leave headroom. The larger volume should make cuts easier, right? Anyone care to weigh in? Thanks all.
I decided since we're talking about 6 gallons of low wines, I'd want more for a spirit run. I went ahead and started up another large batch of (almost) the same recipe. This time, I did 3 keg charges of boiling water (45 gallons) and 80lbs of corn. I didn't have any more flaked rye or oatmeal on hand for this second batch. Gravity was a little higher, 1.060. Pitched it yesterday and today it's going crazy.
If it finishes out as dry as the first batch, and assuming I'll lose a similar portion of the liquid that goes in, I figure this will get me about 11 more gallons of 30% abv low wines. So in total, 17, ie. probably more than I can fit in a single spirit run. I haven't decided whether to run the two batches separately or what. Too much low wines. A good problem I guess haha. What to do? I was thinking I'd blend all the low wines together, 17 or so gallons, then just save some back for later, running the boiler as full as I can and still leave headroom. The larger volume should make cuts easier, right? Anyone care to weigh in? Thanks all.
Time, patience, and perseverance will accomplish all things.
- venkman
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Re: First large batch mash
I'm going to keep updating this thread as a sort of journal of my first big run. Maybe in a couple years when this batch is aged out, I can sip on it and look back and see what I did right or wrong.
The second ferment finished out today. It came in at 0.998, not quite as dry as the first batch but not bad. Should be just over 8% abv. I still hadn't stripped the second half of the first batch because it's been a crazy, busy week. I decided to strip that today to make room for straining this second ferment (I only have two 60 gal barrels). Out of what looked to be about 11 gallons, I only got about 8.5 or 9. There was a lot of yeast and sludge in the bottom that had settled out and I didn't try to mess with the last bit in the bottom of the barrel.
I fired up the still and got that strip running, then rinsed the sludge out of the barrel. I set up the mop wringer press on the empty barrel with a brew bag and started straining the corn off the second ferment. I ended up with four 5 gallon buckets full of mostly dry corn and what I estimate to be between 38 - 40 gallons of beer. It's a bit cloudy so I'm going to wait until Sunday to run it, let it settle out a bit. I plan to just do 3 stripping runs back to back and set that back.
Just as I got everything cleaned up, the strip was coming to an end. It was around 18% abv coming off the spout and came to under 2 gallons at 30% abv. I added it to what I had stripped last Sunday so I've got 5 gallons of 30% abv low wines sitting in a sixtel. Achievement!
That was from from two strips and I'm planning to do 3 on Sunday. I have another empty sixtel but I think I might need another one before then.
The second ferment finished out today. It came in at 0.998, not quite as dry as the first batch but not bad. Should be just over 8% abv. I still hadn't stripped the second half of the first batch because it's been a crazy, busy week. I decided to strip that today to make room for straining this second ferment (I only have two 60 gal barrels). Out of what looked to be about 11 gallons, I only got about 8.5 or 9. There was a lot of yeast and sludge in the bottom that had settled out and I didn't try to mess with the last bit in the bottom of the barrel.
I fired up the still and got that strip running, then rinsed the sludge out of the barrel. I set up the mop wringer press on the empty barrel with a brew bag and started straining the corn off the second ferment. I ended up with four 5 gallon buckets full of mostly dry corn and what I estimate to be between 38 - 40 gallons of beer. It's a bit cloudy so I'm going to wait until Sunday to run it, let it settle out a bit. I plan to just do 3 stripping runs back to back and set that back.
Just as I got everything cleaned up, the strip was coming to an end. It was around 18% abv coming off the spout and came to under 2 gallons at 30% abv. I added it to what I had stripped last Sunday so I've got 5 gallons of 30% abv low wines sitting in a sixtel. Achievement!
That was from from two strips and I'm planning to do 3 on Sunday. I have another empty sixtel but I think I might need another one before then.
Time, patience, and perseverance will accomplish all things.
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Re: First large batch mash
All coming together very nicely for you venkman, great to read about your experience with it so far.
I think with the way you organise yourself and your kit, you are going to become a pretty competent distiller in no time at all.
I think with the way you organise yourself and your kit, you are going to become a pretty competent distiller in no time at all.
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- venkman
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Re: First large batch mash
Thanks MooseMan! I took your advice. When I ran it, I put some copper mesh in the riser. Not so much as to be "packed", but a fair amount. I was also able to put some in the cap between the product condenser and the takeoff spout, so the distillate runs over it before it exits the spout.
Time, patience, and perseverance will accomplish all things.
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Re: First large batch mash
Perfect, should help to clean up your product nicely man, I reckon you'll be happy with it once you've got some ready to bottle and sample.
Looking forward to hearing about it!
Looking forward to hearing about it!
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Re: First large batch mash
I will be looking forward to hearing back from you about your spirit run. I enjoy reading your progress. Thanks for sharing man. Cheer's 
- venkman
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Re: First large batch mash
Not much news to report, Wildcats. I got more stainless storage space ready. Life kicked in and too many other things needed to be done on Sunday, so I didn't do the stripping runs until after work today. I've cranked out 3 strips of about 13gal each. Just ran them as hard as I could keep them knocked down. Collected all 3 down to below 20% off the spout. The total collection totaled about 8 gallons at 39% abv. A little higher than the first ferment.
So now I'm sitting on 5 gallons of low wines at 30% abv and 8 gallons at 39%. I think I'll mix them and run all 13 gallons as a single spirit run. The 5 gallon batch has some rye and oatmeal in it, and the 8 gallon is all corn. But I processed them all the same way and I think I'll come out with a good bourbon-ish whiskey either way.
Since the time that I started this batch, I've done more reading and come across Jimbo's easy 1/2 barrel Wheated Bourbon recipe. If I had this to do over, I'd have done that recipe. I love a wheated bourbon and as I got further into that thread's comments, Jimbo's current method is not much different than what I did here, other than that he put in wheat malt and used an ale yeast. Cheers to experimentation, I guess!
I don't have any stock built up. So, my plan here is to take 1/2 gallon of whatever hearts cut I take and nuclear age it. For the oak/minor improvement where I can get some instant gratification on this deal. The rest, I intend to put up on toasted/charred oak, and not touch it for 2 years. Then I'll probably start up another batch to do the same split; some to have and some to age. Likely the next one will be Jimbo's Wheated bourbon, now that I know that's a thing. I saved some backset from this run, maybe I'll use it to start a batch of Jimbo's recipe as a sour mash.
Stay tuned for the spirit run!
So now I'm sitting on 5 gallons of low wines at 30% abv and 8 gallons at 39%. I think I'll mix them and run all 13 gallons as a single spirit run. The 5 gallon batch has some rye and oatmeal in it, and the 8 gallon is all corn. But I processed them all the same way and I think I'll come out with a good bourbon-ish whiskey either way.
Since the time that I started this batch, I've done more reading and come across Jimbo's easy 1/2 barrel Wheated Bourbon recipe. If I had this to do over, I'd have done that recipe. I love a wheated bourbon and as I got further into that thread's comments, Jimbo's current method is not much different than what I did here, other than that he put in wheat malt and used an ale yeast. Cheers to experimentation, I guess!
I don't have any stock built up. So, my plan here is to take 1/2 gallon of whatever hearts cut I take and nuclear age it. For the oak/minor improvement where I can get some instant gratification on this deal. The rest, I intend to put up on toasted/charred oak, and not touch it for 2 years. Then I'll probably start up another batch to do the same split; some to have and some to age. Likely the next one will be Jimbo's Wheated bourbon, now that I know that's a thing. I saved some backset from this run, maybe I'll use it to start a batch of Jimbo's recipe as a sour mash.
Stay tuned for the spirit run!
Time, patience, and perseverance will accomplish all things.
- venkman
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Re: First large batch mash
Ok, back here to finish documenting this run. I had a family medical situation that had all my attention for the past few weeks, but my low wines were keeping fine in a few sixtel kegs. This past weekend I was able to complete the spirit run on this batch.
Saturday around noon, I filled the boiler with 13gallons of low wines at about 35.5% abv and prepped my collection jars while it came up to temperature. When I got first drips, I got the water flow to the PC adjusted so that the inlet end of the condenser was very cool and the outlet was pretty warm, with a good gradient of heat. The water flow was pretty low and the spent water was pretty hot, but not too hot to touch. 120F I'd estimate. I also adjusted the boiler power down so that I was happy with the takeoff rate. I don't have a power meter on my controller, so after some very fine adjustments, I measured the voltage across the element with a TrueRMS multimeter and did some math, and it was set to right at 1500W.
I took off about 500ml of fores then started collecting. I was collecting 500ml per jar. Since this was my first big run after coming here and learning a few things, I wanted to have an idea of ABV on each sample jar and I wanted more specifically to give my senses some practice. I took drips off the spout and rubbed them for feel. I rubbed them on my arm to smell. Just trying to get a baseline for what I might be looking for. The first jar was coming in around 87% abv and smelled sickly sweet, with a hint of acetone.
The smell and feel continued to change a bit as it went, but about 3 liters into collecting (jar 6), something changed and the product smelled much better. I took mental note. The ABV here was 80% and the thermometer at the top of the riser read 79C. I had a gut feeling that I was into hearts here so I raised the power to the boiler slightly and increased the takeoff rate just a little bit. I meant to measure the voltage again for reference, but I didn't. I have a visual indicator on the knob and I remember about where I set it, but I'll have to measure next time. My guess is around 1800W.
I let everything run like this, continuing to feel and smell occasionally. After a good while, I started to catch a whiff of what I presumed to be tails (funky, musty) and checked ABV. It was around 65%. After about another 2 liters, the distillate began to look cloudy and smell even more terrible (50%abv). I ran and kept collecting through a few more jars, collecting down to 40% abv off the spout. I killed the power around 4:30pm, covered everything with a cheesecloth to keep the fruit flies off it, and cleaned up my equipment. And this time, I did what I didn't do before. I walked away and let it be until Sunday.
Cuts were my biggest worry here so I had spent a lot of time reading Novice Guide to cuts, as well as this thread about consistent dilution - viewtopic.php?t=68702 . I had made a small copper straw with evenly spaced marks in order to get a consistent small sample diluted to 35% abv. This worked wonderfully. I started in the middle of where I thought hearts were and worked my way toward heads. When I got to jar 7, I thought I could taste a tiny bit of heads, but barely perceptible. Still great flavor. I had made a previous mental note that jar 6 might be my cutoff and I was thrilled that tasting the dilluted product seemed to be bearing out what my nose had told me the day before. I tasted jar 6 and it was definitely a little different. Jar 5 was absolutely heads and I didn't want it.
Then I went the other direction and found that my senses were telling me the same story. The flavors changed as I went down the line, but right where I had first smelled that tiny hint of tails, I could taste it too. I tasted the next jar and it was very tailsy, damp dog funk. I wanted to keep pretty tight cuts since this is my first run, but I ended up deciding that tiny hint of tails would be fine since I plan to age on oak. I took the leap and put my selections into a clean stock pot. After tasting, I decided to keep just 100mls from jar 6 also. I was very happy with the final product. It was sitting at 70% ABV, so I did the calculation and added enough spring water to bring it down to 58% for aging. I arbitrarily chose that number because I've seen some of you aging at 62%, others at 55%. I need to read more on that, but I felt like 58% was safe.
In the end, I came away with 2.75 gallons of product. Eleven quart mason jars. Got some 70mm PTFE discs for lid liners. They fit "regular" mouth mason jars. I cut some oak strips to 1" x 0.5" x 5" and toasted them in the oven for 3hrs at 330. I put them in the freezer to cool, then charred them with the torch till they just cracked, like alligator skin. Tossed them in water, then loaded up the jars. And now... we wait.
But I couldn't just wait. So I took one of those jars and did 3 rounds of "nuclear" aging, just to get an idea. I have to say, I'm pretty happy with it right out of the gate, so I'm excited to take another jar down at Christmas and see how they're doing.
This week, I'm going to start a batch of Jimbo's Easy 1/2 Barrel Wheated Bourbon. Hopefully I've learned from this run. I want to take more detailed notes next time about ABV, temperature, power, jar numbers, etc. But thanks to you fine folks at this forum, I've put up something that I think I'm going to be proud of.
Saturday around noon, I filled the boiler with 13gallons of low wines at about 35.5% abv and prepped my collection jars while it came up to temperature. When I got first drips, I got the water flow to the PC adjusted so that the inlet end of the condenser was very cool and the outlet was pretty warm, with a good gradient of heat. The water flow was pretty low and the spent water was pretty hot, but not too hot to touch. 120F I'd estimate. I also adjusted the boiler power down so that I was happy with the takeoff rate. I don't have a power meter on my controller, so after some very fine adjustments, I measured the voltage across the element with a TrueRMS multimeter and did some math, and it was set to right at 1500W.
I took off about 500ml of fores then started collecting. I was collecting 500ml per jar. Since this was my first big run after coming here and learning a few things, I wanted to have an idea of ABV on each sample jar and I wanted more specifically to give my senses some practice. I took drips off the spout and rubbed them for feel. I rubbed them on my arm to smell. Just trying to get a baseline for what I might be looking for. The first jar was coming in around 87% abv and smelled sickly sweet, with a hint of acetone.
The smell and feel continued to change a bit as it went, but about 3 liters into collecting (jar 6), something changed and the product smelled much better. I took mental note. The ABV here was 80% and the thermometer at the top of the riser read 79C. I had a gut feeling that I was into hearts here so I raised the power to the boiler slightly and increased the takeoff rate just a little bit. I meant to measure the voltage again for reference, but I didn't. I have a visual indicator on the knob and I remember about where I set it, but I'll have to measure next time. My guess is around 1800W.
I let everything run like this, continuing to feel and smell occasionally. After a good while, I started to catch a whiff of what I presumed to be tails (funky, musty) and checked ABV. It was around 65%. After about another 2 liters, the distillate began to look cloudy and smell even more terrible (50%abv). I ran and kept collecting through a few more jars, collecting down to 40% abv off the spout. I killed the power around 4:30pm, covered everything with a cheesecloth to keep the fruit flies off it, and cleaned up my equipment. And this time, I did what I didn't do before. I walked away and let it be until Sunday.
Cuts were my biggest worry here so I had spent a lot of time reading Novice Guide to cuts, as well as this thread about consistent dilution - viewtopic.php?t=68702 . I had made a small copper straw with evenly spaced marks in order to get a consistent small sample diluted to 35% abv. This worked wonderfully. I started in the middle of where I thought hearts were and worked my way toward heads. When I got to jar 7, I thought I could taste a tiny bit of heads, but barely perceptible. Still great flavor. I had made a previous mental note that jar 6 might be my cutoff and I was thrilled that tasting the dilluted product seemed to be bearing out what my nose had told me the day before. I tasted jar 6 and it was definitely a little different. Jar 5 was absolutely heads and I didn't want it.
Then I went the other direction and found that my senses were telling me the same story. The flavors changed as I went down the line, but right where I had first smelled that tiny hint of tails, I could taste it too. I tasted the next jar and it was very tailsy, damp dog funk. I wanted to keep pretty tight cuts since this is my first run, but I ended up deciding that tiny hint of tails would be fine since I plan to age on oak. I took the leap and put my selections into a clean stock pot. After tasting, I decided to keep just 100mls from jar 6 also. I was very happy with the final product. It was sitting at 70% ABV, so I did the calculation and added enough spring water to bring it down to 58% for aging. I arbitrarily chose that number because I've seen some of you aging at 62%, others at 55%. I need to read more on that, but I felt like 58% was safe.
In the end, I came away with 2.75 gallons of product. Eleven quart mason jars. Got some 70mm PTFE discs for lid liners. They fit "regular" mouth mason jars. I cut some oak strips to 1" x 0.5" x 5" and toasted them in the oven for 3hrs at 330. I put them in the freezer to cool, then charred them with the torch till they just cracked, like alligator skin. Tossed them in water, then loaded up the jars. And now... we wait.
But I couldn't just wait. So I took one of those jars and did 3 rounds of "nuclear" aging, just to get an idea. I have to say, I'm pretty happy with it right out of the gate, so I'm excited to take another jar down at Christmas and see how they're doing.
This week, I'm going to start a batch of Jimbo's Easy 1/2 Barrel Wheated Bourbon. Hopefully I've learned from this run. I want to take more detailed notes next time about ABV, temperature, power, jar numbers, etc. But thanks to you fine folks at this forum, I've put up something that I think I'm going to be proud of.
Time, patience, and perseverance will accomplish all things.
- subbrew
- Distiller
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Re: First large batch mash
Nice write up. I run pretty similar gear. A few things I thought of as I read the thread here.
If you want to do a fients run, either via a packed column for neutral or via a pot for a franken whiskey, go ahead and run out the tails a bit farther. Might as well collect that alcohol. On stripping runs I go down to about 8% at the spout. On spirit runs, once I am well into tails I crank the power and run to 15% or so at the spout, usually get an extra gallon of 20 to 25% tails. If I ever get my reflux column together I hope to pull some of that out as neutral. I have about 20 gal of fients sitting in a couple of kegs waiting for me to get my butt in gear.
I use the same power controller as you showed and an equally cheap meter so take the numbers with a bit of salt. But on a spirit run I usually start the run around 950 w and over the course of the run will move up to about 1200 at the end. So you might want to try backing down power a bit and see if you get less smearing and a larger yield.
If you want to do a fients run, either via a packed column for neutral or via a pot for a franken whiskey, go ahead and run out the tails a bit farther. Might as well collect that alcohol. On stripping runs I go down to about 8% at the spout. On spirit runs, once I am well into tails I crank the power and run to 15% or so at the spout, usually get an extra gallon of 20 to 25% tails. If I ever get my reflux column together I hope to pull some of that out as neutral. I have about 20 gal of fients sitting in a couple of kegs waiting for me to get my butt in gear.
I use the same power controller as you showed and an equally cheap meter so take the numbers with a bit of salt. But on a spirit run I usually start the run around 950 w and over the course of the run will move up to about 1200 at the end. So you might want to try backing down power a bit and see if you get less smearing and a larger yield.
- venkman
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- Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2023 4:02 pm
- Location: Foothills of NC
Re: First large batch mash
Thanks for the pointers subbrew! I haven't really thought about neutrals yet but I kept the feints that I collected. I'll go deeper into the feints next time.
I want to make an edit to the previous post. When you mentioned running so much lower it got me questioning my back-of-the-napkin math in calculating the power. I made an arithmetic error. I was running 80v across the 8.8ohm element, so double checking that, it should have been drawing roughly 9amps, thus 720W NOT 1500W. I *think* I bumped it up to about 90v when I adjusted, so around 920W, but again I didn't measure. The numbers didn't seem right to me either but I typed up what notes I had scribbled without double checking my math.
I want to make an edit to the previous post. When you mentioned running so much lower it got me questioning my back-of-the-napkin math in calculating the power. I made an arithmetic error. I was running 80v across the 8.8ohm element, so double checking that, it should have been drawing roughly 9amps, thus 720W NOT 1500W. I *think* I bumped it up to about 90v when I adjusted, so around 920W, but again I didn't measure. The numbers didn't seem right to me either but I typed up what notes I had scribbled without double checking my math.
Time, patience, and perseverance will accomplish all things.
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- Distiller
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Re: First large batch mash
Fantastic write up venk, nice amount of detail and really interesting to read, thanks for taking the time to put it down in writing.venkman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 5:08 am Ok, back here to finish documenting this run. I had a family medical situation that had all my attention for the past few weeks, but my low wines were keeping fine in a few sixtel kegs. This past weekend I was able to complete the spirit run on this batch.
Saturday around noon, I filled the boiler with 13gallons of low wines at about 35.5% abv and prepped my collection jars while it came up to temperature. When I got first drips, I got the water flow to the PC adjusted so that the inlet end of the condenser was very cool and the outlet was pretty warm, with a good gradient of heat. The water flow was pretty low and the spent water was pretty hot, but not too hot to touch. 120F I'd estimate. I also adjusted the boiler power down so that I was happy with the takeoff rate. I don't have a power meter on my controller, so after some very fine adjustments, I measured the voltage across the element with a TrueRMS multimeter and did some math, and it was set to right at 1500W.
I took off about 500ml of fores then started collecting. I was collecting 500ml per jar. Since this was my first big run after coming here and learning a few things, I wanted to have an idea of ABV on each sample jar and I wanted more specifically to give my senses some practice. I took drips off the spout and rubbed them for feel. I rubbed them on my arm to smell. Just trying to get a baseline for what I might be looking for. The first jar was coming in around 87% abv and smelled sickly sweet, with a hint of acetone.
The smell and feel continued to change a bit as it went, but about 3 liters into collecting (jar 6), something changed and the product smelled much better. I took mental note. The ABV here was 80% and the thermometer at the top of the riser read 79C. I had a gut feeling that I was into hearts here so I raised the power to the boiler slightly and increased the takeoff rate just a little bit. I meant to measure the voltage again for reference, but I didn't. I have a visual indicator on the knob and I remember about where I set it, but I'll have to measure next time. My guess is around 1800W.
I let everything run like this, continuing to feel and smell occasionally. After a good while, I started to catch a whiff of what I presumed to be tails (funky, musty) and checked ABV. It was around 65%. After about another 2 liters, the distillate began to look cloudy and smell even more terrible (50%abv). I ran and kept collecting through a few more jars, collecting down to 40% abv off the spout. I killed the power around 4:30pm, covered everything with a cheesecloth to keep the fruit flies off it, and cleaned up my equipment. And this time, I did what I didn't do before. I walked away and let it be until Sunday.
Cuts were my biggest worry here so I had spent a lot of time reading Novice Guide to cuts, as well as this thread about consistent dilution - viewtopic.php?t=68702 . I had made a small copper straw with evenly spaced marks in order to get a consistent small sample diluted to 35% abv. This worked wonderfully. I started in the middle of where I thought hearts were and worked my way toward heads. When I got to jar 7, I thought I could taste a tiny bit of heads, but barely perceptible. Still great flavor. I had made a previous mental note that jar 6 might be my cutoff and I was thrilled that tasting the dilluted product seemed to be bearing out what my nose had told me the day before. I tasted jar 6 and it was definitely a little different. Jar 5 was absolutely heads and I didn't want it.
Then I went the other direction and found that my senses were telling me the same story. The flavors changed as I went down the line, but right where I had first smelled that tiny hint of tails, I could taste it too. I tasted the next jar and it was very tailsy, damp dog funk. I wanted to keep pretty tight cuts since this is my first run, but I ended up deciding that tiny hint of tails would be fine since I plan to age on oak. I took the leap and put my selections into a clean stock pot. After tasting, I decided to keep just 100mls from jar 6 also. I was very happy with the final product. It was sitting at 70% ABV, so I did the calculation and added enough spring water to bring it down to 58% for aging. I arbitrarily chose that number because I've seen some of you aging at 62%, others at 55%. I need to read more on that, but I felt like 58% was safe.
In the end, I came away with 2.75 gallons of product. Eleven quart mason jars. Got some 70mm PTFE discs for lid liners. They fit "regular" mouth mason jars. I cut some oak strips to 1" x 0.5" x 5" and toasted them in the oven for 3hrs at 330. I put them in the freezer to cool, then charred them with the torch till they just cracked, like alligator skin. Tossed them in water, then loaded up the jars. And now... we wait.
But I couldn't just wait. So I took one of those jars and did 3 rounds of "nuclear" aging, just to get an idea. I have to say, I'm pretty happy with it right out of the gate, so I'm excited to take another jar down at Christmas and see how they're doing.
This week, I'm going to start a batch of Jimbo's Easy 1/2 Barrel Wheated Bourbon. Hopefully I've learned from this run. I want to take more detailed notes next time about ABV, temperature, power, jar numbers, etc. But thanks to you fine folks at this forum, I've put up something that I think I'm going to be proud of.
I have a strong feeling that you are gonna be a very competent distiller in a pretty short space of time man.
Lovely to hear that your are happy with your product right away too. It's a great feeling isn't it!
Make Booze, not War!
- venkman
- Novice
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- Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2023 4:02 pm
- Location: Foothills of NC
Re: First large batch mash
Appreciate the words of encouragement MooseMan. I am excited to get another run going and some process / logistics. I want to put up some aging stock right now and I want to get more runs under my belt just for practice and improvement. I only get time to still is on weekends, and not every weekend. I want to figure out a process that makes the most of my time running the boiler. I could start a batch one weekend, run it the next weekend while also starting another batch, etc.
Time, patience, and perseverance will accomplish all things.
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Re: First large batch mash
This is awesome, thanks for the informative and detailed write up. Seems like you are having fun!