Moderation - my latest blood test

[Goose]

So I went for a long overdue checkup the other day.

I will admit that because I had completed my first batch of whiskey was perhaps overindulging for a while and I was told my liver was inflamed as indicated by a high ALT and Gamma GT enzyme, whatever that is.

So naturally now I will substantially reduce and see how it looks in 3 months.

Does anybody else check these numbers ?

[harold01]

With results like that I would be overindulging a little more if its a good drop

[still_stirrin]

… Does anybody else check these numbers ?

It is a part of my annual CBC (complete blood count) workup as well.

I was diagnosed with hepatitis C 18 years ago and underwent chemotherapy for 6 months. It took the virus below detectable (essentially cured) and since then the “viral load” has been controlled. My gastroenterologist advised me to quit alcohol completely, but at least curtail chronic (daily) drinking, which I have done.

Twenty five years ago I brewed (and consumed) a lot of beer on a regular basis. Now, I allow myself to “sample” a little on special occasions, otherwise it’s just plain old water.

Liver disease is not something you want to proliferate because the effects are not good. The enzyme levels are simply an indicator of liver function, not really overall liver health. So, watch things closely and pay attention.
ss

[Salt Must Flow]

I had some strange issues going on and went to the Dr. about 5 months ago. I was having problems sleeping if I didn't drinking enough to 'stay asleep' if that makes sense. If I didn't drink X amount, I would wake up gasping for air as though I had sleep apnea, a panic attack or something. The wife said I would talk in my seep a lot too. If I drank less I'd have this problem so often throughout the night that I couldn't get hardly any sleep. Naturally I assumed I was an alcoholic and these were withdraw symptoms. A blood test was done and all kinds of results weren't quite right. Turns out my main symptoms were due to having a severe lack of vitamin D. I was given a really great D supplement and Lorazepam to help sleep. After taking the vitamin D ONCE, I slept through the night perfectly (but still drank in fear of the symptoms if I didn't). In total disbelief, I wanted to prove to myself whether drinking was part of the cause. I reduce consumption by 25% for 3 days and slept perfectly fine. I reduced by 25% again for 3 days and no issues at all. I continued tapering and stopped drinking entirely. It took 12 days to totally quit and I stopped taking the Lorazepam at night after 3 days of zero consumption. To my shock, my symptoms were entirely vitamin D related. Now I pretty much only drink on weekends and cannot bring myself to consume anywhere near as much as I used to EVERY DAY. Turns out I was only drinking to make myself sleep through the symptoms of the vitamin D deficiency.

[Goose]

I've never considered myself an alcoholic (ie the type that needs a bottle of vodka in the morning just to get started for the day. However, the American CDC definition of "heavy' alcoholic consumption is "Heavy drinking: For women, heavy drinking is 8 drinks or more per week. For men, heavy drinking is 15 drinks or more per week." That is like 2 pints of 5% beer a day or 118 ml of 40% spirits.

I have friends that do this in a session, let alone a week, though they would not do it every day. They are also not what I define as "chronic" alcoholic ie need it to function to get through the day, but they still binge on occasion. In my case, I always felt I had a natural "enough" indicator that kicked in but perhaps a developing tolerance was moving the line further away.

The blood test was a bit of a wake up call so that I've decided to abstain from spirits for 3 months and then see the effect. It wont stop me making, I enjoy that process even more than sampling my own wares. I am also an avid beer brewer, and will be enjoying a pint or two on a daily basis (yes still "heavy drinking according to the CDC) but no binge drinking anymore. Shall see.

[NormandieStill]

As I see it (and I'm not an expert on the subject), regular drinking is more of a problem WRT alcoholism than binge drinking. Drinking irregularly to excess is bad for your liver, but is less likely to render you dependant than a few drinks every day. But there's a difference between heavy drinking, alcoholism leading to dysfunction and "functional alcoholism". I've met more than one functional alcoholic. Their alcohol use (for some time at least) had no effect on their ability to function at work, or socially, although eventually the permanent mild hangover started to become noticeable at work.

Anyway, look after your liver so you can continue to enjoy sampling your produce. But watch those daily beers. 1 1/2 pints per day (as an average of your one to two) is 3 units of alcohol per day or 21 units per week. In the UK this is considered to be 50% more than the recommended maximum.

[still_stirrin]

… regular drinking is more of a problem WRT alcoholism than binge drinking…

+1.

My gastroenterologist said that “chronic drinking” (a beer or 2 every day) is worse than “acute drinking” (binge drinking every couple of months). She said that the liver’s ability to heal itself can sustain better between drinking bouts than it can when you consume on a daily basis. Either way, alcoholism can lead to cirrhosis of the liver and that can become cancerous. Incidentally, “sonogram guided biopsies” are not fun.

Liver enzymes (ALT & AZT) are 2 indicators of liver function and don’t directly correlate to alcohol consumption. The enzymes can become elevated for other causes, like a reaction to certain medications for example, or dietary habits (alcohol not withstanding). Your doctor will want to monitor them and recommend lifestyle changes to get the numbers back to the “normal range”.

I’m not passing judgement on anyone here, nor am I saying, “do this or don’t do that”. I just mean to add validity to this thread and answer the OP’s questions with my own personal experience.
ss

p.s. - When you’re young and you think you’re “immortal”, this hobby can become “an addiction”. But, if you’re “a senior” like I am, then you likely don’t want to “push your luck” to the edge of the cliff just to see what’s on the other side of the ledge.

[Twisted Brick]

So naturally now I will substantially reduce and see how it looks in 3 months.

Does anybody else check these numbers ?

Yes, annually.

I'm a regular (almost daily) sipper of 100pf whiskey so felt it wise to abstain for 5 weeks prior to my blood test last month. To better 'clean up my act' I also 'leaned out' my diet and drank lots of water. Results for ALT, AST, GFR, A1C came back right in the middle of acceptable range. Tests for bilirubin (indicator of jaundice, hepatitis and cirrhosis) and albumin (test for liver/kidney disease) also came back fine. The point is that 4-6 weeks of abstaining from all alcohol works wonders and allows your body and organs to heal. (This used to be an annual thing, but kinda fell off).

In 12 weeks you should feel great.

[zach]

I just had my first high AST score. I didn't notice it until I saw this post. Thanks for the topic.

Time to abstain for a month or two and give the liver some rest.

[Renhoekk]

I hear ya I have to admit I’m a little concerned about my guts - my dad has had problems with ulcers and so on. I mostly drink straight spirits and it’s always in the back of my mind that it’s not great for my stomach. But then I also suffer from “won’t happen to me” syndrome

[Goose]

So naturally now I will substantially reduce and see how it looks in 3 months.

Does anybody else check these numbers ?

Yes, annually.

I'm a regular (almost daily) sipper of 100pf whiskey so felt it wise to abstain for 5 weeks prior to my blood test last month. To better 'clean up my act' I also 'leaned out' my diet and drank lots of water. Results for ALT, AST, GFR, A1C came back right in the middle of acceptable range. Tests for bilirubin (indicator of jaundice, hepatitis and cirrhosis) and albumin (test for liver/kidney disease) also came back fine. The point is that 4-6 weeks of abstaining from all alcohol works wonders and allows your body and organs to heal. (This used to be an annual thing, but kinda fell off).

In 12 weeks you should feel great.

Thanks Brick, but wouldn't it be enlightening to also know the state of your system during your "normal" lifestyle rather than the one of abstinence and diet ? Who knows your system may not be affected by your preferred lifestyle as much as you think, so those 5 weeks of self deprivation may not be needed (though of course I highly doubt it ).

[Chauncey]

Sorry mom, but I'm a drunk...
Miss you mom, but I'm so drunk,ssooo drunk

[Twisted Brick]

Thanks Brick, but wouldn't it be enlightening to also know the state of your system during your "normal" lifestyle rather than the one of abstinence and diet ? Who knows your system may not be affected by your preferred lifestyle as much as you think, so those 5 weeks of self deprivation may not be needed (though of course I highly doubt it ).

Goose, my daughter raised the exact same question. Measuring the effects of my normal lifestyle makes perfect sense. I chose to clean up (and work out like I was in my 30’s) because I am not keen on a doctor having to prescribe meds for any functions he might find out of whack. Plus, I've shed 10lbs so I can fit into my tux on said daughter's upcoming wedding day.

[Goose]

Thanks Brick, but wouldn't it be enlightening to also know the state of your system during your "normal" lifestyle rather than the one of abstinence and diet ? Who knows your system may not be affected by your preferred lifestyle as much as you think, so those 5 weeks of self deprivation may not be needed (though of course I highly doubt it ).

Goose, my daughter raised the exact same question. Measuring the effects of my normal lifestyle makes perfect sense. I chose to clean up (and work out like I was in my 30’s) because I am not keen on a doctor having to prescribe meds for any functions he might find out of whack. Plus, I've shed 10lbs so I can fit into my tux on said daughter's upcoming wedding day.

lol I also have a daughter that lectures me. I guess it doesn't really matter what spurs you to take action to get healthy so long as you do it, and your results are certainly encouraging.

On reflection reading the comments above, I've always considered myself to be doing the right thing by having a tipple every day but never or rarely drinking to the point of drunk, at least by my own judgement. I now know that this is completely wrong and its the cumulative affect of consumption that is the most important.

And it makes sense. The analogy is dieting with the goal of weight loss. Some practice intermittent fasting, but its been shown that the result is the same between control groups that consume the same amount of food over the period studied, and only those that lost weight consumed less in totality whether they practiced fasting or regular meals.

[Stags]

Just throwing it out there.

I have had test results 3x that high my doc didn’t bat an eye at.

That said. I do abstain for 30 days every year in January. It helps.

I also intentionally don’t do that before my physical to get a more accurate picture

[shadylane]

"Moderation - my latest blood test"

Everything in moderation is the best game plan.

Plan B.
Is to leave this world with a body that's worn the fuck out.
With a shit load of kinfolks and friends that will remember you.
Long story short, none of us will get out of here alive.

It's human nature, and Ok trying to delay the inevitable.
But don't forget the ride.

[Yonder]

“ Everything in moderation is the best game plan.”

Including moderation.

[zach]

So my follow up test AST, ASL came back in the middle of normal range. I did dial back a little, but one should not take one test as being definitive.

[tombombadil]

Booze can be a cause of high triglycerides as well.
I cut way back after seeing my triglycerides being through the roof.
I'm down to a few servings once every week or two.
Triglycerides are back to normal now.

One benefit is it's easier to stock up when you're not drinking every day. I'm running out of closet space, have had to give a bunch away before I can make more.

[6 Row Joe]

Milk Thistle. Look it up and see what it can do for your liver.

[rubberduck71]

Milk Thistle. Look it up and see what it can do for your liver.

Can you macerate in neutral & make a medicinal gin????

[6 Row Joe]

Milk Thistle. Look it up and see what it can do for your liver.

Can you macerate in neutral & make a medicinal gin????

Huh? Milk Thistle comes in capsule form and you take it like medicine. You don't turn it into gin.

[Dougmatt]

Milk Thistle. Look it up and see what it can do for your liver.

Can you macerate in neutral & make a medicinal gin????

Huh? Milk Thistle comes in capsule form and you take it like medicine. You don't turn it into gin.

Or maybe you do?!? Brilliant!

[The Baker]

Milk Thistle. Look it up and see what it can do for your liver.

Can you macerate in neutral & make a medicinal gin????

Huh? Milk Thistle comes in capsule form and you take it like medicine. You don't turn it into gin.

I thought milk thistle grew in the ground.

Geoff

[Twisted Brick]

.
I got a chuckle out of duck's question, but milk thistle is a flowering herb, not unlike some of the botanicals that go into making gin. The active ingredient silymarin has been extracted from the plant's dried seeds for 2000 years, quite a long time before capsules were invented.

Another entertaining addition to gin is the butterfly pea blossom which makes one's gin turn blue.

[rubberduck71]

Huh? Milk Thistle comes in capsule form and you take it like medicine. You don't turn it into gin.

Sorry -- it was my lame attempt at humor!

[Dee Envy]

Ya. I eat the raw Milk Thistle seeds. They come from.... You guessed it, the Milk Thistle plant. It is a very common thistle with high liver healing properties.
I also make my own Turmeric capsules which is also a liver healing herb/spice. It has to be mixed with black pepper or olive oil to be active.

[Yummyrum]

Not sure if I should be bragg’n or touching wood .
A few weeks ago I had some strange Amnesia thing that had me in hospital for a day and a bit . Admitted with a BP over 200
Had to have Brain MRI , Carotid Artery Ultrasounds and a fuck load of blood tested .
Saw quack last Friday . Found nothing wrong with my brain or blood flow . Cholesterol was a little high but not worth doing anything about . Sodium level saw low , which surprised me because I have always poured salt on everything. I’m the guy that gets a handful of peanuts then adds a twist od salt to my hand before scoffing .

I sheepishly asked about Liver function . He said it was all good . Only one marker was up , but he said that could happen if I had been bitten by an insect or had a glass of wine the night before my test . I guess it could have been the whole bottle and a bit of wine I drunk .

Only thing he was worried about was my high blood pressure . But again , he said it was not worth medicating me for that .

They could not find any reason for my Amnesia thing and put it down to some random thing mostly blokes over 50 get maybe only once and rarely twice called TGA ( Transient Global Amnesia)

Anyway , it has made me and mrs Yummy look at our drinking . According to the definition we are high functioning Bing drinking Alcoholics .

I had an uncle like that . At 75 he suffered alcohol induced dementure .I am only 58.

[zach]

Hope you can get that blood pressure down. I started bp meds a few years back with no side effect and have maintained a normal level since. I'm surprised that with a 200 you are not taking meds, as I was just over 140 when I started.

[harold01]

Yummy
I put salt on my anchovies