Expected SG for this grain bill?

[realtree71]

10lbs crack corn (ground)
4lbs 2-row caramel malt
4lbs flaked rye

10-12gal water.

Planning to cook corn 170° about a hour with Amylase Enzyme
Then Add malt, then add rye.

I was hoping for 1.06 but not sure I'm there with the above.

Was hoping to avoid sugar but I'm thinking Im a little light here

I do have a few gal of dark corn syrup or i could add or just sugar.

[realtree71]

I also have about 6-8lbs wheat malt extract & flaked wheat

[elbono]

You are probably light on grain water ratio. Just a rough calc tells me below 1.055 at 10 gallons. When I want 1.060 I start with 2lb/gallon and do detailed calcs from there.

These webpages give the info to make a better calculation:
https://stillntheclear.com/moonshine-10 ... ppg-chart/
https://homebrewacademy.com/grains-and-adjuncts-chart/
WARNING-The first webpage assumes 85% efficiency, the second is 100% but has more grains listed.

[still_stirrin]

WARNING-The first webpage assumes 85% efficiency, the second is 100% but has more grains listed.

Hint: I use 75% brewhouse efficiency (Brewer’s Friend online calculator) when calculating potential. However, I lauter (sparge the grains) and ferment off-the-grains. So, I’d expect my potential to be a little lower.

My system is probably inefficient too because of the way I handle the sweet liquor. But the prediction is usually very close to my net yield when considering the potential lost in the mash/lauter tun as well as left behind in the fermenters. If I underestimate a little, it just covers the shrinkage on the backend. Plus, the brewhouse efficiency is generated with hundreds, if not thousands of mashes with my system.

Grains are almost as cheap as water when producing a lot of beers. In the end, it’s the quality over the quantity of the product.
ss

p.s. - If I were to use a higher extract efficiency, I’d just be disappointed with poor performance in the end. So, using a brewhouse efficiency proven over years of all-grain brewing using my equipment helps me plan the product with more certainty.

[Sporacle]

Ive just stepped into the all grain world as my everyday drinker. Got a fair bit of UJ tucked away so I'm running a corn/rye with enzymes.

Couple of hints that I've picked up from here is to add a touch of alpha to the corn when you are bringing it up to temp.
Take the corn all the way to a boil, stir and hold at a high temp then let it come down to enzyme temp add and stir.
Also add Gluco to finish off conversion.
Using this method took me a whole point higher compared to just dumping boiling water on my corn and holding, went from 1.050 to 1.060.

I would give the recipe at least two goes so you can compare efficiency and settle on a mash system that works for you

Good luck

[elbono]

WARNING-The first webpage assumes 85% efficiency, the second is 100% but has more grains listed.

Hint: I use 75% brewhouse efficiency (Brewer’s Friend online calculator) when calculating potential.

I get little better than 75 but I'm fermenting on the grain, I don't have my process down pat or enough data to know a real number. Hopefully I'll be around 80-85 eventually.

I was proud of myself when I figured out different references use different efficiencies. I do all the calcs by hand. For me that's easier than learning how to coerce the number I'm looking for from a calculator designed for making beer. Those guys can really complicate things.

As you say, the real objective is predicting what you'll get so you can adjust the starting point for the end point you want. My target is 115-120 proof after cuts, after a spirit run, after a strip run, after a ferment, after a mash. It'll be a while before get there.

[still_stirrin]

… the real objective is predicting what you'll get so you can adjust the starting point for the end point you want…

Agreed. A “professional brewer” knows his processes and his brewhouse efficiency, because it’s his JOB. We hobbyists often take a lot of that for granted. But when it’s your livelihood, it matters.

Using a calculator will help with recipe formulation not only for spirits production, but more importantly … your BEER production, even if it’s “distiller’s beer” you’re producing. Matching cereal grain flavors with the recipe matters not only to beer drinkers, but also spirit producers.

I suggest the Brewer’s Friend website, especially with their subscription, because you’ll be able to build an archive of successes and learn from the “not so successful” brews. It’ll also give you a great resource of recipes from the world of experienced home (and professional) brewers.

However, ultimately a recipe is just a recipe. How you process it and the tools you use will make any recipe YOURS because of “your signature”.

And keep in mind, EXPERIENCE is priceless.
ss

[elbono]

Back to the OPs question my advice is use more grain or less water. At 85% efficiency 2 lb grain to 1 gallon water will get you in the neighborhood of 1.060.

Less experience lowers your efficiency, using enzymes according to their instructions will raise efficiency. Watch temps and pH with man made enzymes but they are more tolerant of temperatures than natural enzymes from malts.

Any time I use high temp AA enzymes I use the matching low temp GA enzyme but I can't say you need to since I haven't tried just the high temp.

[Twisted Brick]

Regardless of a calculated brewhouse efficiency, all distiller's mash regimes are a little different. Sure its important to know the PPG of any given grain for recipe projections, but unless you're willing and equipped to tweak every phase of your processes, just starting with 2lbs/gal will provide a viable benchmark for all subsequent mashes. Like s_s says, the best teacher is experience.

Adding sugar to an AG conversion just to achieve a target SG only degrades the quality of your final product.

[jonnys_spirit]

Water doesn’t turn into etoh.
Grain does turn into etoh.

Once I wrapped my head around that I stopped worrying so much about SG and focused more on the consistency of the mash and what is easiest for me to work with

2#/gallon give or take depending on the day and not sweating the details too much

Cheers,
jonny

[Deplorable]

Water doesn’t turn into etoh.
Grain does turn into etoh.

Once I wrapped my head around that I stopped worrying so much about SG and focused more on the consistency of the mash and what is easiest for me to work with

2#/gallon give or take depending on the day and not sweating the details too much

Cheers,
jonny

+1
I don't sweat it. I just run with 2 to 2.3 pounds per gallon and know I'll be in the neighborhood of 1.06. Good enough for me.

[Sporacle]

That's great advice JS and Deplorable.
I know now that oh that tastes nice is about 1.050 and jeez that's sweet is 1.060

[realtree71]

Thanks all

[realtree71]

Do any of you ferment with the grain in? Or do you all remove it before you pitch yeast?

[Bradster68]

I ferment on grain, but you'll find everyone does it differently. Some ferment off grain, some sparge and lauter,some in a bag,you'll have to find a process that works for you. I'd say on grain to start out and then start playing around

[Deplorable]

Do any of you ferment with the grain in? Or do you all remove it before you pitch yeast?

On grain. I find it's easier to deal with the spent grains after the sugars have been converted to alcohol.

[realtree71]

Thanks

[Deplorable]

Thanks

Buy a mop bucket and some 5 gallon paint strainer bags.

[Swedish Pride]

Cook the corn at higher temperature for longer