Buffalo wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 4:48 am
How big is your fermenter?
I have a 32 gallon Brute, did two 20 gallon batches using the original 40 gallon recipe with the easy large batch mashing method. However, I'm on the lookout for a cheap 40-55 gallon blue barrel - the Brute gets real soft with 180 F mash and I've read here about them failing.
Maybe, if you have some old barrel hoops laying about...
Alright well I'm having a hard time with cuts. I'm decent with the fermenting and distilling but definitely still figuring out cuts. To date, I've made high corn (basically corn with a touch of oats) mashes. And I'm distilling infrequently enough that it feels like I'm starting over each time. This recipe with the wheat and rye
I'm also new to aging so determining what will mellow/transform in barrel is...hard. This is destined for a Badmo.
40 gallon mash yielded 7.5 gallons of low wines at 29%, of which I charged the boiler with 6.5 gallons.
Off the spout, I thought hearts jar 7 (75%) was safely into hearts and I was likely to keep 6 as well. Tails started coming in around 14, with 16 & 17 potentially keepers as well.
After airing for a day, I still started at jar 7 but extended all the way to 21 (60%). That was last night.
This morning, I made a sample blend of 7-21 and thought it was headsy. I went back through testing and made narrower cuts, ended up blending 10-19, about a gallon at 69%. After walking away for a bit and coming back, it tastes sharp - maybe a little chemically and also still some grunge that I associate with tails but may not be.
I'm having a hard time distinguishing sharp/chemical from just alcohol bite with rye spice. Proofing down to ~35% to taste. I'm not chasing yield here, but I did think I would yield more than a gallon. So I'm cognizant wanting to make good cuts but not cut out what would be quality product with some age.
Compounding this I started getting a cold yesterday and definitely have one today. I'm tempted to just throw everything back in the boiler and try again since I've already blended 10-19. But before I do that, figured I'd see what y'all say.
I've read the various popular cut threads there...it's hard without an in person guide.
ckdistills wrote: ↑Sat Sep 02, 2023 12:54 pm
Alright well I'm having a hard time with cuts.
Everyone is different, but to even express an opinion we need volumes in each jar. Jar numbers alone tell nothing.
of course! There is also pic a few posts back but on the previous page. An opinion would be great. I know there isn't much that can be gleaned from what I've posted. I guess I'm asking (1) am I generally in the realm where hearts are likely (believe I am!), and (2) with this recipe, any tips or guidance about what others have seen about when flavors tend to come over. Like is it possible I'm confusing rye spice with heads?
Prior to jar 1, I collected about 6oz of fores.
Primarily collecting in 16oz / 500ml jars before moving to 32oz jars in tails.
So jars 1 - 22 had 13-14 oz each except for when it seemed like the taste was changing in the middle of the jar and I'd swap it for a new one. Those are:
12: 2/3 full
13: 1/3 full
17: 1/3 full
Jars 23-28 were 32 oz quart jars, except for 24 which was an 8oz jelly jar
Just to close the loop here, thank you for the PM help I got and also to my recovering taste buds, I ended up blending 7-22 (nearly identical to my original cuts) into the Badmo. That ended up being 1.3 gallons, of which I kept ~7oz white for library comparison purposes later. Starting another ferment tomorrow to finish filling the barrel.
ckdistills wrote: ↑Mon May 08, 2023 2:02 pm
Quick update. I use a 32 gallon Brute to ferment so doing the full 40 gallon recipe in two 20 gallon batches (~10% backset). Mashed in corn & oats yesterday, alpha amylase at 178. This morning it had dropped to 140, mashed in malts & gluco amylase (I'm in the habit of using enzymes regardless). Earlier this afternoon got a temp corrected 1.057 gravity reading at 130 degrees, pulled insulation off the Brute to bring it down to pitching temp, will be using FermPro 921. Smells delicious.
How much headspace did you have in the Brute? I’m going to try 20 gallon in a 30 gallon fermenter.
Housemoney wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 5:16 am
How much headspace did you have in the Brute? I’m going to try 20 gallon in a 30 gallon fermenter.
Housemoney,
I can get up to 50# of grain and 23 gallons of water in these without the cap overflowing. These are 30 gallon. It leaves about 2.5 inches.
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Housemoney wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 12:08 pm
Thanks, I’m in Walmart now. Is the Martha White self rising corn meal what I need to get?
Absolutely not.
If you must by small packages of corn meal, ensure it's ingredients consist only of corn. That stuff has baking powder, and several other ingredients in it.
I recommend Bobs Red Mill brand corn meal.
Fear and ridicule are the tactics of weak-minded cowards and tyrants who have no other leadership talent from which to draw in order to persuade.
Housemoney wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 5:16 am
How much headspace did you have in the Brute? I’m going to try 20 gallon in a 30 gallon fermenter.
Most I've had was 53 lbs of grain with 24 gallons of water. That was as full as I'm comfortable with in my 32 gallon Brute. I like that fermenter Deplorable has - the plastic on the Brute gets pretty soft when you pour in boiling water.
Housemoney wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 5:16 am
How much headspace did you have in the Brute? I’m going to try 20 gallon in a 30 gallon fermenter.
Most I've had was 53 lbs of grain with 24 gallons of water. That was as full as I'm comfortable with in my 32 gallon Brute. I like that fermenter Deplorable has - the plastic on the Brute gets pretty soft when you pour in boiling water.
Yep. CROW was the last AG I mashed in my 32 g brute. I wasn't comfortable with how much it buldged out on the sides. IMHO they're fine adding 160° water to malts, but holding 190° and all that grain for 3 hours plus made me nervous.
Fear and ridicule are the tactics of weak-minded cowards and tyrants who have no other leadership talent from which to draw in order to persuade.
I use this corn meal, works great. Good flavor and a good bulk buy shipped right to my door.
Because it’s so fine, it gelatinizes very quickly and provides a good yield with little fuss.
Thanks for the link. I ordered it this morning. If they ship quickly I should be able to mash in this weekend. Got killed on shipping from 3 different suppliers. I’ll have to check out our restaurant supply store to see what they carry.
I get the 50lb bags from restaurant Depot for I think 30 something dollars. Maybe more now... Been a little while since my last all grain. Maybe this winter time will free up.
"Come on you stranger, you legend, you martyr, and shine!
You reached for the secret too soon, you cried for the moon.
Shine on you crazy diamond."
I just put yeast on another batch of this destined for an Oregon Oak Badmo Barrel. 2.15 pounds per gallon and 1.065 OG, pretty much the same as the first batch. I toasted my oats a bit darker than the last batch I made. Closer to the dark roast in this picture from page 1. Partially because I was looking for a little more toasted flavor, and partially because I am not as good as I thought at multi-tasking. At any rate, the dry toasted oats had an incredibly nutty flavor, like toasted almonds. After a couple years in a M4 barrel, it should make a damned fine bourbon.
image.png
I've also come to the realization that when I follow SCD's easy large batch mashing process, if I start on a Friday evening after work, by the time I get up Saturday morning, it's ready to unwrap, and cool. By the time I finish my morning rituals, it's at 155F and ready for the malts.
A few hours of rest, and I can crash it and pitch the yeast starter.
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+1 on the dark roast like the top 1/3 in photo, for CROW and SCB. It's really nice on Oregon white oak too - less vanilla/caramel and more grain IMO. (I think you tried some...) Will be awesome after snoozing in a badmo barrel for a year or two.
BoilerMaker wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:38 pm
+1 on the dark roast like the top 1/3 in photo, for CROW and SCB. It's really nice on Oregon white oak too - less vanilla/caramel and more grain IMO. (I think you tried some...) Will be awesome after snoozing in a badmo barrel for a year or two.
I did try some. What doesn't fit in the Badmo will go on some of the Oregon oak sticks.
Fear and ridicule are the tactics of weak-minded cowards and tyrants who have no other leadership talent from which to draw in order to persuade.
Sorry if this has already been asked and answered, but would this recipe work as a sour mash? I have been trying to find a good all grain bourbon to fill a 30L barrel. Would a medium toast on American white oak be a suitable barrel for this? When I'm not distilling or brewing, I'm smoking brisket and ribs so think I will smoke the oats - has anyone else done this? Cheers!
DropBear1986 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 11:58 pm
Sorry if this has already been asked and answered, but would this recipe work as a sour mash? I have been trying to find a good all grain bourbon to fill a 30L barrel. Would a medium toast on American white oak be a suitable barrel for this? When I'm not distilling or brewing, I'm smoking brisket and ribs so think I will smoke the oats - has anyone else done this? Cheers!
I did it as a sour mash, came out great and went into a medium toast Badmo. I’m also fairly new so take that all for what it’s worth!
Curious if anyone in NZ has made this and what grains you used. I've been checking out the Gladfields Malt alternatives page and they suggest their Wheat Malt as an alternative to Red Wheat. This is fine, but they suggest exactly the same as an alternative to White Wheat. So I'm losing some of the flavour profile by replacing two grains with one. Cheers.
Morepork wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 7:13 pm
Hey guys,
Curious if anyone in NZ has made this and what grains you used. I've been checking out the Gladfields Malt alternatives page and they suggest their Wheat Malt as an alternative to Red Wheat. This is fine, but they suggest exactly the same as an alternative to White Wheat. So I'm losing some of the flavour profile by replacing two grains with one. Cheers.
I've made this with just white wheat malt and using both red and white. I personally couldn't tell the difference. YMMV
Fear and ridicule are the tactics of weak-minded cowards and tyrants who have no other leadership talent from which to draw in order to persuade.
Deplorable wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 6:35 am
I've made this with just white wheat malt and using both red and white. I personally couldn't tell the difference. YMMV
Traditionally the red provides a little bit more spice than white. I developed the wheat mix in honey bear, and threw some red in the absence of any rye. I brought the mix over to this recipe, but this recipe has rye in it. So it might be you don't tell a difference because any spice would be attributed to the rye. All that saying, use what you have. They are the spices in the meal, not the base ingredient. The formula is there to be pretty easy to work with. Chalk it up to the terroir of your particular spirit in your particular part of the world.
"Come on you stranger, you legend, you martyr, and shine!
You reached for the secret too soon, you cried for the moon.
Shine on you crazy diamond."
82Winger wrote: ↑Wed Dec 27, 2023 1:51 pm
Does this recipe call for milling the wheat and rye? Anxious to try. Thanks
Yes, you'll need to crush/mill the malts. From your question I'm assuming you don't have much experience with all grain, apologies if that isn't the case. A few pointers. Have you gelatinized corn before? If not, read up on that as it can trip folks up. And then pay attention to temp ranges when you add your malts so you don't denature them and get no conversion. Or use enzymes (I usually do both just because I have enzymes and it doesn't take much). SCD's Easy Large Batch Mashing technique is fantastic if you have a large enough fermenter.
Yes I do need to learn more. I have made some recipes with success and some not. One other question I have is why do you add the oats at the same time as your corn? Is that too hot for the oats? Just going by the chart here...
image.png
Thanks again
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of course! There is also pic a few posts back but on the previous page. An opinion would be great. I know there isn't much that can be gleaned from what I've posted. I guess I'm asking (1) am I generally in the realm where hearts are likely (believe I am!), and (2) with this recipe, any tips or guidance about what others have seen about when flavors tend to come over. Like is it possible I'm confusing rye spice with heads? 
