Air for agitation

[Tōtōchtin]

I am curious why no one mentions using pressureized air to agitate a thick grain. The added internal pressure would be easy to mitigate, so I can't see that as the problem. Nor using one way valves, so what am I missing?
Tōtō

[greggn]

I am curious why no one mentions using pressureized air to agitate a thick grain.

Contamination by introducing far more bacteria than would be encountered via ambient air. Also wild yeast. Unless you're using a highly-filtered medical grade source then the problem is cost.

[Tōtōchtin]

Thanks for your reply. If it would induce more bacteria or wild yeast I would think the rum heads would be doing it. If it is a problem a good filter over the intake would solve that. I have a dive master in the family so I was thinking about using an old tank and putting a solenoid valve on a timer.
Tōtō

[NZChris]

I put an aquarium pump in the head space in the fermenter to agitate with the ferment’s own CO2,

[Tōtōchtin]

NZChris I was thinking about using it for making rye whiskey. Never had made any but from what I read I am going to need more then an aquarium air pump to get this type of grain moving around. Pero I don't have any hands on experience to back up my ideas yet. Not seeing it at a distillery leads me to believe I am barking up the wrong tree.
T

[NZChris]

I stir the grain bed once a day for the first few days using an SS paddle.

I don't know that stirring it constantly would make much difference but, if you wanted to do that with a large air pump, blowing air through it would be a great way to make a large batch of Malt Vinegar.
Use CO2.

[Tōtōchtin]

I stir the grain bed once a day for the first few days using an SS paddle.

I don't know that stirring it constantly would make much difference but, if you wanted to do that with a large air pump, blowing air through it would be a great way to make a large batch of Malt Vinegar.
Use CO2.

Now that time a has past a bit and I've learned a couple of things,well at least one thing. I see now by your co2 comment you're thinking about fermentation. I was thinking about pumping air into the boiler to move that rye mash around so not to burn on the element. Now I see that is being done with steam that is the direction I'll be heading.
I want to thank you and all the others who have put up with all my questions. The delay in getting parts was a very good thing. I've gone plan A to plan V.A.32.003. I feel like a government contractor with all my cost over runs.
Tōtō

[Tōtōchtin]

I saw last night Alan Bishop had the same idea about using air to agitate the mash in a boiler. Alan and his crime partner used a submarine style boiler and ran a really thick rye made with no scorching problems.
He must have taken such an original idea from my post.

[Salt Must Flow]

Air from an air compressor can introduce oil. People who spray coatings for instance often wear a full face mask with air supplied from an air compressor, but they use a special filter. You wouldn't believe how nasty those filters get after a while. They get disgusting.

I imagine using compressed air to agitate a mash would make a horrible mess. Lots of splatter.

[Tōtōchtin]

Air from an air compressor can introduce oil. People who spray coatings for instance often wear a full face mask with air supplied from an air compressor, but they use a special filter. You wouldn't believe how nasty those filters get after a while. They get disgusting.

I imagine using compressed air to agitate a mash would make a horrible mess. Lots of splatter.

Or you could buy an oil less compressor which could also be used to pull a vacuum/pressure on a barrel with spirits. I wanted to use this idea to run grains in a boiler. Mine has a top so no mess. Google his still on tube.


Tōtō

[NZChris]

Pumping Oxygen into a fuel rich boiler sounds like buying a ticket for a holiday in the Burns Unit.

[Tōtōchtin]

Air is actually a low percent of oxygen. How many stills have you heard about blowing up running a bad still and a piss poor tender? Sorry but so little gas is being used you could hook it up to a Nitrogen bottle. I am making 2 steam boilers for my rye, but I see this as a feasible sys if you like corn and rye whiskey.
I have ran extractors using highly more volatile agents then ethenol pumping in high pressure air into the tubes and then pulling a good vacuum.
The only ignition source is under a bunch of water and low grade ethenol. I guess you could ignite a bubble that could rise to the surface and ignite something. I would worry about the electric fuel pump in your gas tank that was assembled by some 3 grade level Chinese guy.
Tōtō

[NZChris]

One of the reasons you don't hear about stills blowing up is because the O2 has been driven out by the vapor. You are suggesting adding it back, which would mean that you have fuel and O2 in the boiler and exiting the condenser. Get the fuel/air ratios right and there is a possibility that an external ignition source could flash back into the boiler.

[Wildcats]

Wait for it....

[Northsouth]

Something to study, perhaps.. It turns a bit caboomy..

[Bradster68]

My cement mixer on a drill makes my mash a frothy aerated bubbly sensation for the yeast.. Takes 5 min

[elbono]

It turns a bit caboomy..

I think that's spelled with a K.

[Tōtōchtin]

I came back to this because I thought someone might think I'm not safety minded. Not so. My family thinks I'm a crazy adrenaline junkie.Im still here because I plan well and use good equipment.

But if he is worried about what little time he uses the air he can just crack a bottle of tasteless inert gas. That would stop that worry. What's the difference having the top off stirring the mash while running gas.
He plans on fermenting a corn mash in his still then distill it then drain it out of a large valve. If you like grains there's some good ideas there.
Tōtō

Just turn off the video once he starts selling his ideas.

[NZChris]

What's the difference having the top off stirring the mash while running gas.

The vessel is open and cannot contain the pressure needed for an explosion, so if it did get ignited it would go 'woof', not bang, and the fire could be put out by throwing a wet cloth over it.

[Tōtōchtin]

I agree but that woof will cause you to be the next burning man. Put a bottle of inert gas feeding the the intake of the compressor would solve your worries. Did you look at the man's still? It's a guy you said can't be a good distiller with all that shiny equipment behind him. I thought that was a narrow view but that's one thing I like about your posts
Tōtō

[NZChris]

I agree but that woof will cause you to be the next burning man.

It would just be a flame in a still, enough give you a fright and teach you a lesson, it's not going to spray you with boiling liquid, which is what has put self-appointed Master Distillers and their workers into Burns Units. There are two threads about still explosions that I know of, look them up, it wasn't fire that burnt the distillers.

[Salt Must Flow]

I've always liked the idea of making like a magnetic stir plate for inside of a boiler. Something similar to what is shown on this page used for creating artificial wave motion in aquariums. Would have to be stainless, brass or copper inside the boiler. Magnetically secured through the boiler so it would be easily removable. It would probably be cheaper to just install a small prop through the wall of the boiler and just leave it.

[Northsouth]

It turns a bit caboomy..

I think that's spelled with a K.
16983653832350.jpg

my bad

[The Baker]

It's too late to worry about the spelling after it goes BOOM!

Geoff

[Tōtōchtin]

Well the inert gas takes care of that,cheap bottle of co2. As for new ideas some people didn't want to sail past the horizon because they feared falling over the edge or being locked up for saying the earth is not the center of the universe.
Some ideas take more time to develop for some.
Stay safe,
Tōtō