Troubles running my new CM still

[MooseMan]

My hope is that the larger 2" dephlag that I have on order will "solve" my problem. Might it backfire? Can my RC be TOO large?

Learning!

Definitely not PoolGuy. If your condenser is too efficient, all you need to do is reduce the flow of coolant (Water) until you get the balance you want.

I like my output water to be as hot as I can get it with the still doing what I want.
So as long as the product temp is comfortably below vapour temperature, the output from the RC/PC can be as hot as it wants!

[Sporacle]

In my very limited experience, plated columns are all about balance. A properly sized deflagameter and a good quality needle valve are a necessity.
My deflagameter can't knock down full power input, it doesn't need to. All it needs to knock down is enough power to load the plates and compress.

[PoolGuy]

Makes sense. I will be waiting for the new larger dephlegmator before setting up the still again. I have some SS scrubbies coming as well, but I think that I will stick with the plates for my next run to "change one variable at a time" and see if I can get things balanced. I have ~3.5gal feints to play with, and might (hopefully) re-run some current product if things go well. Maybe start a couple batches of SSS to keep me busy while waiting.

I would like to learn to make a good neutral, then use that knowledge before diving into more adventurous "flavored" spirits.

Big THANKS again to all who have opined to try and help this novice out. I'll be makin' top shelf in no time .

[MooseMan]

I'm looking forward to reading about what you do.

Before you know what's going on, you will be down the rabbit hole.

[Yummyrum]

Nice pick up on the 40% boiler charge Haggy …… would stuff things up with the higher vapour production .

With Neutral as the aim , 30-40% in the boiler and running at 2kw would be more typical , however, that is something you would use with the column packed .

And certainly at this power , you will need the bigger Deflag .

Even with all the column packed , it is still shorter than it should be .A 2” Neutral machine’s packed column really needs to be about 40” long.

However , at this point , I’d be suggesting to put this head aside ( for maybe one day when you want to make a flavoured spirit ) and look at a dedicated still more suited to make Neutral .

A VM is a good option .

[Saltbush Bill]

I'm missed the 40% abv boiler charge to Yummy.......that still will run quite differently with just plain wash.......there is no need to run straight low wines in a plated column.

[PoolGuy]

.......there is no need to run straight low wines in a plated column.

Could you explain this for me Bill?

[Saltbush Bill]

Plated columns are and were originally designed do single runs.
They do not need low wines to make a good spirit in the way that a pot still does.
Running low wines in a pot still is the equivalent of double distilling.......or two distillations if you like.
A 4 plate column is already the equivalent of 4 distillations.
Having said that some folk do run a mix of wash and low wines in a plated column.
Learn to run it with only wash before trying to use other methods.
Walk before you try to Run

[shadylane]

Time to cut to the chase.
The OP want's neutral, Dilution and multiple runs can get the job done, but plates are the wrong tool.
Even worst, the plates being used are shit and a 2" column is too small for plates.

I'd recommend.
Set the storebought flue aside and buy a 2" x 48" SS spool and use the CM as a packed column.

[Yummyrum]

+1 Salty and Shady

[still_stirrin]

+1 Salty and Shady

+1 more.

PoolGuy, using the “wrong tools for the job” usually is a compromise to the process and the product. A plated column (flute) is best suited for full flavored spirits, not neutrals. When your “eyes bleed” from reading the website, you’ll understand.
ss

[PoolGuy]

Time to cut to the chase.

Ok. Ok. Ok.

I was at the junk yard today looking for 2" copper. What they had was all too short. They did have longer pieces of 2" SS.

- Can I use SS to make a spool? Or should I hold out for copper?
- How tightly do I want to pack the SS scrubbies?
- Can I use my existing 4-1/2" flute sections along with an added column section? It would give me windows, and reduce the length of what I need to buy/build.

I did find a scrap 2" tri-clamp and SS "cap". $2US. Maybe a CCVM is in my future, and I'll need a cap to run in pot still mode for stripping. Also embracing the "build it" phylosophy. I am handy with tools and not afraid to rise to my level of incompetence. See.... I am reading and learning.

Rabbit hole eh? Gotta' go wipe the blood out of my eyes. Thanks again for helping me understand the basics, bit by bit.

[shadylane]

Here's what I'd recommend.

[Yummyrum]

Time to cut to the chase.

Ok. Ok. Ok.

I was at the junk yard today looking for 2" copper. What they had was all too short. They did have longer pieces of 2" SS.

Now you talking .

Copper column stuffed with Staino scrubbers ….or a Staino
Column stuffed with copper mesh .

About same I’s say .


What ever is easier for you to deal with .

[PoolGuy]

My moment of truth is approaching. I have my new 2" deflegmator and it is significantly larger than the little guy that came with my "HooLoo" still.

Today I am stripping about 30 gallons of SSS. It is coming out around 44%ABV and I am preparing for spirit run with the goal of making something neutral.

I have a new 24" section of 2" column. My plan is to add one of my four plate/window sections to the top of this, and one to the bottom, for a total column height of 33". I WILL NOT INSTALL ANY PLATES. I could add another nine inches by also using the two remaining plate sections? ?? I have both SS scrubbies and copper mesh. My plan is to pack the new 24" SS section with copper mesh, and stuff some SS packing (scrubbies) into the two copper plate/window sections above and below. OK so far?

Questions:
- My "30 liter still" (ha ha ha) boiling pot holds about 5 gallons with a couple inches to spare. Should I, for some reason, charge the pot with less than a full 5 gallons?
- My plan is to dilute my 44% low wine with some SSS wash (or water?) to get down around 40%. Should I, for some reason, start with a lower ABV?

I'll be using the calculator on this site to provide targets for power input, collection rate, etc.

Thanks again for all of the help.

[PoolGuy]

ALSO... Do I need to do another vinegar run to clean up the new column section, deflag, SS scrubbies and copper mesh?

And sacrificial run? Please nooooooooooooooo.

[Yummyrum]

If you can physically clean the surfaces with a cloth , brush and detergent , then that would be good enough for me .

Regarding the boiler , less would be better . A bit of head space “buffers” the boil and makes the still run better IMO . But I have ran mine with barely a few inches and it has ran reasonably well .

Diluting down to about 30% seems to provide better results with the tails end .


I’d use water not wash for diluting .

My only other suggestion would be to use ine of those spare plate modules ( plate removed) unpacked , or packed just up to the window , under the dephleg so you can see the rain falling and watch for flooding .Also , as much packed volumn length as you can muster will help .

Good luck this round

[NormandieStill]

Clean those new additions mechanically as best you can, but I would still do a full vinegar/ sac run cleaning protocol to be sure. Do you have left over heads from your first run? Diluted down they make a good sac run that doesn't involve fermenting any wash.

For making neutral, diluting your low wines back down to maybe 20% if you can will help dilute the field and keep some of them back in the boiler. Obviously this limits the total alcohol in your run and the only way to be certain is to run the same amount with and without dilution and see what your yield is after cuts. I tend to add water to my max fill level and let the abv in the pit fall where it may. I don't make enough neutral to be considered an expert though.

Posted at the same time as Yummy

[PoolGuy]

My Frankenstein still, ready for her first neutral spirit run.

Column is 38" tall. Ran vinegar and sacrificial today. The RC worked like a charm (I think). I was finally able to control the reflux, fairly precisely, with the needle valve. The windows let me see how much was being dropped back into the boiler, so I could get an estimate of reflux ratio. Whoot Whoot! Just 1/2 a turn open on the needle valve was enough to put the still in full reflux.

Now is my ability to put this still in full reflux for the first time due to the fact that I have a new larger deflag? Or is it that the still was charged this time with10% low wine (diluted feigns) rather than the higher 40% I had been using weeks ago? Regardless, I think I am on the right track, and anxious to try my hand at a few spirit runs in the very near future.

Will certainly be taking NormandieStill and Yummyrum advice. Will shoot for a 25%-30%ABV charge, little less than a full boiler. Thanks again guys!

[Saltbush Bill]

Some time in the future, once you learn to run it a bit better, try running two or three plates under the packed section......you might find that you like it that way and that it produces an even better neutral.
It doesn't seem to be a popular idea here but plenty of folk have good success doing it that way.

[greggn]

Now is my ability to put this still in full reflux for the first time due to the fact that I have a new larger deflag? Or is it that the still was charged this time with10% low wine (diluted feigns) rather than the higher 40%

The higher the ABV the lower the boiling point thus a lower condensing temperature and a smaller PC becomes equally effective.


... and when you get to running a keeper be sure to lose the plastic collection pitcher and use either glass or stainless.

[rushchaser]

Try rolling up some copper mesh and putting it in the delphflag tubes, it can help increase its cooling power. Also check the height of the downcomer overflow compared to the height of the notches in the cap, there needs to be enough difference to get a good bubble interaction.

[howie]

looks like you rig is very similar to mine, as in height, deflag, PC.
i think the 8-pipe condensers are much more effective, both my deflag & PC are these.
the PC can handle everything my 2400w can throw at it.
the deflag can handle reflux power levels easily, but can't quite handle full power.(not that i use full power on reflux obv)
i have pipe insulation on my columns, i have seen the effect of wind, but i distill outside.
it looks like you're distilling inside, but it still might be worth insulating.

[Salt Must Flow]

If this column will house packing you should insulate the packed section of the column. I'd make a run to Lowes for instance. You can find pipe insulation there. The best insulation I've found there was like a slightly rubbery, Neoprene pipe insulation. That stuff is truly amazing insulation. It costs more than the Polyethylene foam insulation, but that's because it is MUCH better. For my 3" column I needed two pieces (I forget the exact size) to wrap completely around my column and it fit perfectly.

I bought a roll of Velcro strap from Harbor Freight to aid in securing it to my column. I think you can find that stuff on Amazon too.

[Yummyrum]

Try rolling up some copper mesh and putting it in the delphflag tubes, it can help increase its cooling power.

This seems to be a common theory but from what myself , and I believe Shady have found, it is not true .
Adding packing to the tubes reduces the effective area causing increased vapour speed which means less dwell time ( the time the vapour is next to a cool surface ) and actually results in less condensing .

[PoolGuy]

Column insulated: Check
No plastic pitchers: Check

Started with 4-1/2 gallons of feigns at 27% ABV this morning. Everything worked beautifully. Collected around 4 liters at better than 93% ABV. The clean neutral I was looking for has been found. I am convinced that the 1-1/2" short 3-tube deflag that came with this "HooLoo" still is woefully small for the task. And the taller packed column also seemed to be a key ingredient to achieving my goal. I am a happy camper.

I did learn (with help from Haggy and his calculators) that today's run had more power than needed (2094 watts) and thus required more RC cooling water volume than needed (about 1L/min). I will back off on my next run. But the job got done!

I have more SSS stripped and ready to run, and also a first generation UJSSM, just for the heck of it, that I should probably focus on getting into the still.

Un so, my original post "Troubles running my new CM still" has been solved. Thanks to all who provided there two cents along the way. I feel like I have graduated to second grade.

[Yummyrum]

Well done Poolguy .

93% is not bad .You should still be able to get 95% with a bit more tweaking .

[PoolGuy]

Way to bust my bubble Yummyrum. I actually read a solid 94% at one point today. So there. Take that.

95% must be a second grader or third grader lesson. I'll get them plates back in the bottom as Saltbush Bill suggested. Maybe that will help.

For now I am just basking in today's progress. But seriously, thanks for the nudge forward.

[shadylane]

Some time in the future, once you learn to run it a bit better, try running two or three plates under the packed section......you might find that you like it that way and that it produces an even better neutral.
It doesn't seem to be a popular idea here but plenty of folk have good success doing it that way.

I hear what you're saying, But not "those" 2" sieve plates.

[Yummyrum]

Way to bust my bubble Yummyrum. I actually read a solid 94% at one point today. So there. Take that.

95% must be a second grader or third grader lesson. I'll get them plates back in the bottom as Saltbush Bill suggested. Maybe that will help.

For now I am just basking in today's progress. But seriously, thanks for the nudge forward.

Hee hee
A solid 94% puts you well ahead of the T500 crowd already

I hear what you're saying, But not "those" 2" sieve plates.

Tend to agree Shady . Also , plates on a 2” won’t like being run higher than 1kw without seriously smearing while the remaining column is needing closer to 2kw to run efficiently . So the plates will either contribute SFA if ran to satisfy the packed section or seriously compromise the packed section if run to keep them happy .

Better to throw the plates and pack the modules IMO.