first run (vinegar) on new still

[sadie33]

My husband got me the 8 gal Mile High traditional pot still for Christmas. He also got me the 110v heater controller with the 2000w element. I did a water run last night to make sure there were no leaks and everything fit right, but only ran it till I got a few drops then shut it down.

They didn't give a book or directions or anything. I went on their site for a video and didn't really find what I needed. They show vague videos, but nothing with detail.

I just finished the vinegar run. I did a 50% charge (4 gal) with 50/50 H2O to vinegar. I have never used a control box or an internal element and with basically no directions, I ran it like I did my stove and Vevor.

There are 10 lines that go from MIN to MAX. I started on line 2 and went up 2 lines every 10 min. I got my first drips after 57 min. In 67 min I got a broken stream with LOTS of vapor!! I slowly turned it down every couple min and went all the way down to line 2 with still getting quick drips, but still getting vapor. In the half hour I ran it I collected 250ml.

I used a 5 gal bucket with cold water to cool the vapor. The temp in the bucket was 50*F. The water coming out the hose was around 62* and by the end of the run it went up to 66*. When I felt the lyne arm it was cool on top and got warmer as I went down the tube, but always cold on the bottom. I had it at a slight angle to make the hoses fall better to the bucket.

I don't know why there was so much vapor, did I go to fast on heating it up? I wish I had directions.

Here's a pic

[Salt Must Flow]

For a vinegar run, I crank the heat to max and blast the vapor out of a door or window. I think I did that for about 30 min or so. Just don't let your element get exposed.

When you do a sacrificial alcohol run, you can operate it just as you would a stripping run. Just strip as fast as your product condenser can handle. I'm assuming you would be doing a sugar wash for this run.

[sadie33]

For a vinegar run, I crank the heat to max and blast the vapor out of a door or window. I think I did that for about 30 min or so. Just don't let your element get exposed.

When you do a sacrificial alcohol run, you can operate it just as you would a stripping run. Just strip as fast as your product condenser can handle. I'm assuming you would be doing a sugar wash for this run.

I am so nervous of exposing the element and have no idea how to figure that out. I did figure out 2 gal will cover it so I guess as long as I don't take out more than 3 gal on a 5 gal run, I'll be safe.

They give you a free bag of turbo yeast, which I'm assuming is for a sugar wash for sacrificial run, but I did find some vodka for 8.99 a bottle (1.75L) I got 3 so I could do the run tomorrow night. I was going to use the 3 bottles of vodka with 3 bottle of water and if it wasn't enough, top off with some of my feints from last year watered down to 40%.

It seems that my condenser can't handle it, unless I did something wrong. When I got it to a broken stream there was so much vapor coming out, even when I lowered it down to almost min vapor was coming out. Maybe alcohol will be different? I'm going to call Mile HIgh tomorrow see what they say and what advice they can give.

[Salt Must Flow]

For a vinegar run, I crank the heat to max and blast the vapor out of a door or window. I think I did that for about 30 min or so. Just don't let your element get exposed.

When you do a sacrificial alcohol run, you can operate it just as you would a stripping run. Just strip as fast as your product condenser can handle. I'm assuming you would be doing a sugar wash for this run.

I am so nervous of exposing the element and have no idea how to figure that out. I did figure out 2 gal will cover it so I guess as long as I don't take out more than 3 gal on a 5 gal run, I'll be safe.

They give you a free bag of turbo yeast, which I'm assuming is for a sugar wash for sacrificial run, but I did find some vodka for 8.99 a bottle (1.75L) I got 3 so I could do the run tomorrow night. I was going to use the 3 bottles of vodka with 3 bottle of water and if it wasn't enough, top off with some of my feints from last year watered down to 40%.

It seems that my condenser can't handle it, unless I did something wrong. When I got it to a broken stream there was so much vapor coming out, even when I lowered it down to almost min vapor was coming out. Maybe alcohol will be different? I'm going to call Mile HIgh tomorrow see what they say and what advice they can give.

I know exactly what you're talking about, but DON'T worry, water vapor behaves totally differently than alcohol vapor. Do not get disappointed. You'll see A lot of people get disappointed during a vinegar run and think their condenser is not working as they expected. You won't be distilling water and alcohol vapor condenses MUCH easier in comparison.

You can use vodka if you're in that much of a hurry. Technically sugar costs a lot less than even cheap vodka. It only takes about a week to let it ferment and you can do your sacrificial cleaning run.

Take your time and read some thread on 'hot to do a vinegar cleaning run' and you'll see that not everyone does it the same or for the same amount of time.

If you're worried about exposing the element, you could always turn the power off and take a peek inside to see where the water level is. That will give you an idea of how long it takes to make the level go down X amount at a given power setting. The water level likely goes down a lot slower than you think.

[BoilerMaker]

The feeling of cold to warm as you went down the lyne arm, are you referring to the condenser section too? If so, be sure that cool water goes in at the bottom and out at the top before going back to the bucket.I'm wondering if maybe you had a worm with the vervor. Liebig and shotgun PCs are different and work best with coolant direction counter-flow to vapor.

[sadie33]

For a vinegar run, I crank the heat to max and blast the vapor out of a door or window. I think I did that for about 30 min or so. Just don't let your element get exposed.

When you do a sacrificial alcohol run, you can operate it just as you would a stripping run. Just strip as fast as your product condenser can handle. I'm assuming you would be doing a sugar wash for this run.

I am so nervous of exposing the element and have no idea how to figure that out. I did figure out 2 gal will cover it so I guess as long as I don't take out more than 3 gal on a 5 gal run, I'll be safe.

They give you a free bag of turbo yeast, which I'm assuming is for a sugar wash for sacrificial run, but I did find some vodka for 8.99 a bottle (1.75L) I got 3 so I could do the run tomorrow night. I was going to use the 3 bottles of vodka with 3 bottle of water and if it wasn't enough, top off with some of my feints from last year watered down to 40%.

It seems that my condenser can't handle it, unless I did something wrong. When I got it to a broken stream there was so much vapor coming out, even when I lowered it down to almost min vapor was coming out. Maybe alcohol will be different? I'm going to call Mile HIgh tomorrow see what they say and what advice they can give.

I know exactly what you're talking about, but DON'T worry, water vapor behaves totally differently than alcohol vapor. Do not get disappointed. You'll see A lot of people get disappointed during a vinegar run and think their condenser is not working as they expected. You won't be distilling water and alcohol vapor condenses MUCH easier in comparison.

You can use vodka if you're in that much of a hurry. Technically sugar costs a lot less than even cheap vodka. It only takes about a week to let it ferment and you can do your sacrificial cleaning run.

Take your time and read some thread on 'hot to do a vinegar cleaning run' and you'll see that not everyone does it the same or for the same amount of time.

If you're worried about exposing the element, you could always turn the power off and take a peek inside to see where the water level is. That will give you an idea of how long it takes to make the level go down X amount at a given power setting. The water level likely goes down a lot slower than you think.

thanks, this makes me feel better. I now wish I had used the turbo yeast and started the sugar wash yesterday. It says it will finish in 48 hrs. It probably would have been done by Friday. oh well. Maybe I will still do it. Wouldn't hurt to run it on Sat or Sun.

I never thought about taking a peek, it would slow down my run a bit, but maybe until I get a few more runs under my belt, that would be a good idea.

[sadie33]

The feeling of cold to warm as you went down the lyne arm, are you referring to the condenser section too? If so, be sure that cool water goes in at the bottom and out at the top before going back to the bucket.I'm wondering if maybe you had a worm with the vervor. Liebig and shotgun PCs are different and work best with coolant direction counter-flow to vapor.

And this is why they should have given me directions! Yes, I did as you said, put the cold water in the top and had the water come out the bottom.

thanks for letting me know.

[Salt Must Flow]

I totally forgot you said it came with Turbo yeast. I've never used that stuff. I guess it would make sense to use it for a sacrificial alcohol run.

I wouldn't open the still during an alcohol run though. Lots of vapor would escape.

[BoilerMaker]

The feeling of cold to warm as you went down the lyne arm, are you referring to the condenser section too? If so, be sure that cool water goes in at the bottom and out at the top before going back to the bucket.I'm wondering if maybe you had a worm with the vervor. Liebig and shotgun PCs are different and work best with coolant direction counter-flow to vapor.

And this is why they should have given me directions! Yes, I did as you said, put the cold water in the top and had the water come out the bottom.

thanks for letting me know.

Awesome, I bet that solves the problem. Yeah, a quick start guide would give a better out-of-box experience.

I don't know why you couldn't run the vodka through it again for practice and see if it works better. Then a clean sac run again (per recommendations from the gurus)? It's good you're tracking the cooling temps... should be easy to add more capacity if needed.

[Salt Must Flow]

The feeling of cold to warm as you went down the lyne arm, are you referring to the condenser section too? If so, be sure that cool water goes in at the bottom and out at the top before going back to the bucket.I'm wondering if maybe you had a worm with the vervor. Liebig and shotgun PCs are different and work best with coolant direction counter-flow to vapor.

And this is why they should have given me directions! Yes, I did as you said, put the cold water in the top and had the water come out the bottom.

thanks for letting me know.

It's actually the opposite. Water goes in the bottom or where the product exits the condenser. That's counter-flow to the vapor.

[Yummyrum]

The feeling of cold to warm as you went down the lyne arm, are you referring to the condenser section too? If so, be sure that cool water goes in at the bottom and out at the top before going back to the bucket.I'm wondering if maybe you had a worm with the vervor. Liebig and shotgun PCs are different and work best with coolant direction counter-flow to vapor.

And this is why they should have given me directions! Yes, I did as you said, put the cold water in the top and had the water come out the bottom.

thanks for letting me know.

It's actually the opposite. Water goes in the bottom or where the product exits the condenser. That's counter-flow to the vapor.

Salt
I think Sadie was just agreeing with BoilerMaker that she had it hooked up wrong like he guessed and that is why she had the poor cooling .

Nice little still Sadie .
Din’t forget to give it a good rinse out with water immediately after the Vinegar run …… iff’n you haven’t already .

As a general rule , on a stripping run of around 8-12% ABV , you can expect about 1/5-1/4 as strip .

Meaning if you have 5 gal in the boiler , you can expect that 1 gal and a bit will come over , leaving around 4 and maybe a bit less in the boiler . This will leave your element well covered .

Incidentally 5gal would be a good sized charge leaving plenty of head space n the boiler .
You’ll probably need to do at least 4 stripping runs to get enough low wines to keep the element covered while doing the spirit run .

[Salt Must Flow]

The feeling of cold to warm as you went down the lyne arm, are you referring to the condenser section too? If so, be sure that cool water goes in at the bottom and out at the top before going back to the bucket.I'm wondering if maybe you had a worm with the vervor. Liebig and shotgun PCs are different and work best with coolant direction counter-flow to vapor.

And this is why they should have given me directions! Yes, I did as you said, put the cold water in the top and had the water come out the bottom.

thanks for letting me know.

It's actually the opposite. Water goes in the bottom or where the product exits the condenser. That's counter-flow to the vapor.

Salt
I think Sadie was just agreeing with BoilerMaker that she had it hooked up wrong like he guessed and that is why she had the poor cooling .

Nice little still Sadie .
Din’t forget to give it a good rinse out with water immediately after the Vinegar run …… iff’n you haven’t already .

As a general rule , on a stripping run of around 8-12% ABV , you can expect about 1/5-1/4 as strip .

Meaning if you have 5 gal in the boiler , you can expect that 1 gal and a bit will come over , leaving around 4 and maybe a bit less in the boiler . This will leave your element well covered .

Incidentally 5gal would be a good sized charge leaving plenty of head space n the boiler .
You’ll probably need to do at least 4 stripping runs to get enough low wines to keep the element covered while doing the spirit run .

Yeah I think you're right Yummy. I can't read between the lines. I think I'm more of a literal person

[MooseMan]

Hey Sadie, nice Xmas present!

Ok so the vinegar being harder to condense, that's been covered. Caught me out first time too.

Your water lines the wrong way around, (Should be in at the bottom, out at the top) that's been covered. Caught me out once too!

And your sac run?
You mentioned that you have a stock of feints? I'd use those for sure.
Get enough water to cover your element plus a bit, then add feints to bring the ABV up to around 10% or more and there's your sac run.
Don't put it back into your stock though, chuck it after.
Use the sac run to get an idea of how much power your condenser can cope with and how the still performs at different settings.

Keep us posted!

[sadie33]

"Incidentally 5gal would be a good sized charge leaving plenty of head space n the boiler .
You’ll probably need to do at least 4 stripping runs to get enough low wines to keep the element covered while doing the spirit run ."

This is why I wanted the 8 gal, so I could fit a full 5 gal ferment. I've been mashing up a storm since we started our wood stove. I was going for 3 (5 gal.) ferments, but I can do 4. I already have 3 (5 gal) SBBs rum, 3 (5 gal) sweet feed whiskies and a UJSSM all ready to run. My sewing room has turned into my ferment store room!

[sadie33]

Hey Sadie, nice Xmas present!

Ok so the vinegar being harder to condense, that's been covered. Caught me out first time too.

Your water lines the wrong way around, (Should be in at the bottom, out at the top) that's been covered. Caught me out once too!

And your sac run?
You mentioned that you have a stock of feints? I'd use those for sure.
Get enough water to cover your element plus a bit, then add feints to bring the ABV up to around 10% or more and there's your sac run.
Don't put it back into your stock though, chuck it after.
Use the sac run to get an idea of how much power your condenser can cope with and how the still performs at different settings.

Keep us posted!

I think I will use my feints. I have a couple gallons so it should be enough once watered down. I guess I'll keep the vodka. I've never had good vodka, so I guess I won't mind drinking the cheap stuff.

[Deplorable]

Be mindful of the temperatures of your cooling water reservoir. I don't think a 5 gallon bucket is going to be enough capacity.
I'd expect you will want at least a 30 gallon reservoir of cold water, or run from the tap.

Once you get this still dialed in, you'll find out just how much easier cuts are on large quantities and how much more keep you end up with from a 5 gallon spirit run.
And, that milk can is a great base to build on when you decide to upgrade to a copper riser and copper condenser to improve cooling efficiency.

[sadie33]

Be mindful of the temperatures of your cooling water reservoir. I don't think a 5 gallon bucket is going to be enough capacity.
I'd expect you will want at least a 30 gallon reservoir of cold water, or run from the tap.

Once you get this still dialed in, you'll find out just how much easier cuts are on large quantities and how much more keep you end up with from a 5 gallon spirit run.
And, that milk can is a great base to build on when you decide to upgrade to a copper riser and copper condenser to improve cooling efficiency.

I was thinking of having 2 (5 gal) buckets. One I'm using and one sitting on the porch. I'm not sure yet what's too hot for cooling water, but thought when it got that temp, I would switch with the bucket with the one on the porch. I live in New England so this time of year that warm water would cool off quickly and I could switch it again. I'm also not sure how quickly the 5 gal bucket would get too warm so my back up plan would be to add snow to the cooling bucket to bring it back down to 50 ish.

I already showed my husband some of the attachments for this rig. I don't know much about the towers, but showed him all the different kinds. I don't have any copper in this still, so my plan is to throw some elbows on the bottom, my husband already gave me a hand full. they gave me a 2 lb roll of copper mesh, but I don't know what to do with it. Again...no directions. No pictures, nothing.

[Deplorable]

You don't need instructions. Everything you need to know is right here on this forum.

[elbono]

I am so nervous of exposing the element and have no idea how to figure that out. I did figure out 2 gal will cover it so I guess as long as I don't take out more than 3 gal on a 5 gal run, I'll be safe.

There are lots of ways to calculate this but you have the simplest, most foolproof method to keep the element covered.

The calculations will prevent you from needing to shut down early because of a small boiler charge though.

[Salt Must Flow]

Be mindful of the temperatures of your cooling water reservoir. I don't think a 5 gallon bucket is going to be enough capacity.
I'd expect you will want at least a 30 gallon reservoir of cold water, or run from the tap.

Once you get this still dialed in, you'll find out just how much easier cuts are on large quantities and how much more keep you end up with from a 5 gallon spirit run.
And, that milk can is a great base to build on when you decide to upgrade to a copper riser and copper condenser to improve cooling efficiency.

they gave me a 2 lb roll of copper mesh, but I don't know what to do with it. Again...no directions. No pictures, nothing.

Roll the copper mesh. Not too tight, not way too loose and slide into the base of the riser.

I like to make a simple support for copper mesh so it doesn't fall into the boiler. Here's a link. Everyone has their preferences, but I've always just used 4 rolls of copper mesh at the base of my riser. My still is 100% stainless accept for the copper mesh and my copper product condenser. Seems to work just fine.

[sadie33]

hmmm, I bet that's why that little screen is there. I was trying to put all the pieces of my still in the pot and it all fit but the lyne arm. Because there is a little screen under the cover, the top of the lyne arm can't stick through the top. I thought- well that stinks, but now I see why.
Here's a pic of the top and bottom of the cover. I could pack the riser, then clamp it to the top and the mesh can't fall through.

[sadie33]

Hey Sadie, nice Xmas present!

Ok so the vinegar being harder to condense, that's been covered. Caught me out first time too.

Your water lines the wrong way around, (Should be in at the bottom, out at the top) that's been covered. Caught me out once too!

And your sac run?
You mentioned that you have a stock of feints? I'd use those for sure.
Get enough water to cover your element plus a bit, then add feints to bring the ABV up to around 10% or more and there's your sac run.
Don't put it back into your stock though, chuck it after.
Use the sac run to get an idea of how much power your condenser can cope with and how the still performs at different settings.

Keep us posted!

So much better when connected the RIGHT way!! I LOVE the internal element, I can't believe the power it has! I did like I did for both the water and vinegar run, increasing 2 lines every 10 till I was at MAX in about 40 minutes, giving me my first drops at 45 min. I did a 4 gal charge at 11%.

It wasn't long before I had a stream. I didn't realize my pump was acting up, so the water wasn't flowing good, only a trickle. So I did start to get some vapor, but I think it was more from the hot product in my collection jar, than from the lyne arm, but it could have been both. I turned it down a couple lines at a time and unclogged my pump. Soon the vapor was gone and on a #3 I was still getting a pretty good stream coming out. I couldn't believe it. I thought I would have to run it near max to get a stream like that! I kept it going at a stream for about 1/2 hour collecting about a quart at 69%.

With my Vevor I had to constantly fiddle with the in and out flow. It would either overflow or suck air. This was SOOOO easy!

[NZChris]

You might be misusing the term 'lyne arm'.

[sadie33]

You might be misusing the term 'lyne arm'.

I probably am

[Deplorable]

You're calling the condenser a lyne arm.

Once you have her dialed in and get a feel for where your power dial needs to be to produce the right rate of output to make a good product without smearing it to hell and back, you'll figure out how to "set it, and forget it".
Learn the sounds it makes as the charge heats up and comes to a boil, figure out when to turn on your pump, and when to turn the power down to the right mark to produce a slow drip through fores, and gradually increasing until you reach the desired take off rate for your hearts. Then it's on cruise control for the remainder of the run.

[Saltbush Bill]

With my Vevor I had to constantly fiddle with the in and out flow. It would either overflow or suck air. This was SOOOO easy!

And this is exactly why I discourage people from buying these cheap and nasty bits of rubbish.
So many people must use them once or twice and then give up on the hobby, thinking that all stills are hard to use.
Most of those same people would also end up with a fairly second rate product. None of that is good for our hobby.
Welcome to the world of real stills Sadie.......enjoy.

[MooseMan]

So much better when connected the RIGHT way!! I LOVE the internal element, I can't believe the power it has! I did like I did for both the water and vinegar run, increasing 2 lines every 10 till I was at MAX in about 40 minutes, giving me my first drops at 45 min. I did a 4 gal charge at 11%.

It wasn't long before I had a stream. I didn't realize my pump was acting up, so the water wasn't flowing good, only a trickle. So I did start to get some vapor, but I think it was more from the hot product in my collection jar, than from the lyne arm, but it could have been both. I turned it down a couple lines at a time and unclogged my pump. Soon the vapor was gone and on a #3 I was still getting a pretty good stream coming out. I couldn't believe it. I thought I would have to run it near max to get a stream like that! I kept it going at a stream for about 1/2 hour collecting about a quart at 69%.

With my Vevor I had to constantly fiddle with the in and out flow. It would either overflow or suck air. This was SOOOO easy!

You are soooo gonna enjoy running your new toy more than that thing you had before Sadie!

As has been said, time to learn how it likes to run now, get a feel for it.
On your first strip runs, get it going as hard and fast as you can and see if that condenser can cope with full power. That's best case scenario.

Take good notes, power settings, L/HR output, water temps in/out etc and before long you'll be driving it almost hands free.
And let's hear about it!

[sadie33]

You're calling the condenser a lyne arm.

Once you have her dialed in and get a feel for where your power dial needs to be to produce the right rate of output to make a good product without smearing it to hell and back, you'll figure out how to "set it, and forget it".
Learn the sounds it makes as the charge heats up and comes to a boil, figure out when to turn on your pump, and when to turn the power down to the right mark to produce a slow drip through fores, and gradually increasing until you reach the desired take off rate for your hearts. Then it's on cruise control for the remainder of the run.

yup, and now I know better.

It's a lot harder to hear the insides of this one because it's more insulated than the Vevor. But I can hear some noises and could tell when it was about to boil.

I already felt like I was on cruise control not having to tinker with the flow rate all the time. Except for turning the dial down to get the right flow, I didn't really have to do anything.

I practiced a tune on my hammered dulcimer- Whiskey before breakfast

[mjrbuzz]

I don't know if its just my setup my my boiler with an element seem to get real quiet right before its up to temp

[sadie33]

With my Vevor I had to constantly fiddle with the in and out flow. It would either overflow or suck air. This was SOOOO easy!

And this is exactly why I discourage people from buying these cheap and nasty bits of rubbish.
So many people must use them once or twice and then give up on the hobby, thinking that all stills are hard to use.
Most of those same people would also end up with a fairly second rate product. None of that is good for our hobby.
Welcome to the world of real stills Sadie.......enjoy.

I could see people quitting. It was tricky at times. Luckily I am determined and don't quit easily. Plus I really like doing the ferments too. I love every part of this hobby. I think that's why my husband got me a cheap one first, to see if I even liked it. Then when he saw I LOVED it, he got me this nice one.

I can't wait to compare the product from the different stills.