Pot Still Head with Reflux and Thumper

[NattyBoh]

I’m currently running a 4” 3-plate flute with average bourbon results. My product lacks complexity so I’m probably stripping a lot of flavor. I have some xtra copper and want to try a thumper. I’ve read that a pot still + thumper is 1.5 distillations. Would a 4” packed pot still with some minor reflux plus a thumper be a 1-run option to increase flavor while avoiding stripping out to much flavor? From what Ive read, I like the idea of adding wash/feints/fruit/etc to the thumper for different flavor profiles. Thanks.

[jonnys_spirit]

I’m currently running a 4” 3-plate flute with average bourbon results. My product lacks complexity so I’m probably stripping a lot of flavor. I have some xtra copper and want to try a thumper. I’ve read that a pot still + thumper is 1.5 distillations. Would a 4” packed pot still with some minor reflux plus a thumper be a 1-run option to increase flavor while avoiding stripping out to much flavor? From what Ive read, I like the idea of adding wash/feints/fruit/etc to the thumper for different flavor profiles. Thanks.

A ton of folks prefer double distillation protocol with straight pot still (no thumper) because it works very well for bourbon in their opinion. I tend to agree but at the same time haven't run plates or thumper and haven't felt any need to either Try it!

You can top up your low wines charged spirit run with fresh ferment and feints for a 1.5+ if you like.

Cheers,
jonny

[Salt Must Flow]

I totally agree with jonny. Try just doing a stripping run then do a spirit run. No plates, no reflux ... just basic pot still configuration. Do that at least once and see how you like it before adding anything fancy.

[Sporacle]

I’m currently running a 4” 3-plate flute with average bourbon results. My product lacks complexity so I’m probably stripping a lot of flavor. I have some xtra copper and want to try a thumper. I’ve read that a pot still + thumper is 1.5 distillations. Would a 4” packed pot still with some minor reflux plus a thumper be a 1-run option to increase flavor while avoiding stripping out to much flavor? From what Ive read, I like the idea of adding wash/feints/fruit/etc to the thumper for different flavor profiles. Thanks.

Another option using the equipment you have is to load your plates and compress initially, take an approx head cut.
Then shut the deflagameter down and run as a pot, just make sure the water in the deflagameter is not held under pressure.
Just collect in small jars around the transition.
I find with my 4 plate I need to widen my cuts.

[Beerswimmer]

Or.....have the potstill go to the thumper, then put the deflag with no plates or a few plates after the thumper but before the PC. Only put what has no tails into the thumper. Use high proof heads cuts from the previous batch, the first part of strip runs, or just high proof spirits or water or all of the above. After a while the majority of the ethanol will be in the thumper, ala the old LWTCS Thump Tower experiments.

[Tōtōchtin]

Or.....have the potstill go to the thumper, then put the deflag with no plates or a few plates after the thumper but before the PC. Only put what has no tails into the thumper. Use high proof heads cuts from the previous batch, the first part of strip runs, or just high proof spirits or water or all of the above. After a while the majority of the ethanol will be in the thumper, ala the old LWTCS Thump Tower experiments.

Why would you exclude tails from the thumper on a bourbon run?
T

[still_stirrin]

Or.....have the potstill go to the thumper, then put the deflag with no plates or a few plates after the thumper but before the PC. Only put what has no tails into the thumper. Use high proof heads cuts from the previous batch, the first part of strip runs, or just high proof spirits or water or all of the above. After a while the majority of the ethanol will be in the thumper, ala the old LWTCS Thump Tower experiments.

Why would you exclude tails from the thumper on a bourbon run?
T

Well, I cut the tails from my bourbon (double distill without a thumper). However, I will dig a little deeper for some of the malt flavors when planning to age a while on wood. The backend on a whiskey run is better than keeping too much of the late heads. I don’t care for the “hot heads” in my sipping whiskey, although many unexperienced drinkers think it’s “the kick” that makes it good. Just not me. A well aged whiskey should be smooth without burn. And after a couple of fingers, it should make you very relaxed.
ss

[Beerswimmer]

Why would you exclude tails from the thumper on a bourbon run?
T

So that they don't end up in every jar

[Tōtōchtin]

Why would you exclude tails from the thumper on a bourbon run?
T

So that they don't end up in every jar

I would think as long as it's not from a reflux run that there's some flavor in the tails from a bourbon run. It might not be a large percentage of the tails. But that flavor keeps the bourbon from being bland. Keeping tails out of the thumper won't stop you from still having to do a tails cut.
Tōtō

[Beerswimmer]

If you like tails in all of your hearts jars, then go for it. But I don't run plates, I run a potstill with a thumper. I prefer my jars to be like any other run where heads come out first and then a long hearts fraction before the tails, so I put everything in order. Tails, mixed low wines, and wash go into the boiler. Heads, early hearts, hearts, or water in the thumper. The run will be like any other run, and the fractions coming out of the pipe will be predictable, and the cuts will be like any other run. You can keep as much tails as you want, they won't be mixed into everything as they would be if they were in the thumper.

If you're using plates then maybe it won't matter as much, but I don't run plates .

[Tōtōchtin]

Maybe I'm more confused than I thought. I don't see how putting tails in a thumper is going to put tails through out your hearts cut.
Tōtō

[Beerswimmer]

Thumpers do not put tails in hearts cuts! They will if you put the tails in the thumper. Think about why heads then hearts then tails come out in the order that they do on a normal run. Why in that order? What would mess it up?

Don't put the cart before the horse.

[Tōtōchtin]

Well I respectfully disagree. Too many rum and bourbon distillers use tails in their thumpers. A thumper will pass the fractionalized alcohol along the same as a boiler will . What happens from the tails in your boiler. Do they stop in the thumper when they contact the heads you put in there? Or do the heads in the thumper modify the tails component so they don't smear all thru your heads cut? If I'm totally off base could someone point to some literature to educate me properly.
Tōtō
Edit: I can understand some of the reasons for using heads in a thumper or using heads in one and tails in another. But not because it will stop tails from smearing all thru your hearts cut. Pulling alcohol from the heads is one of the reasons for doing so.

[OtisT]

I use the same process as beerswimmer when using the thumper. With regard to placing feints, I put Tails in the boiler and Heads in the thumper. For me this seems to give me a bit more yield by holding off the tails longer.

[Saltbush Bill]

If I'm totally off base could someone point to some literature to educate me properly.

Maybe more practical experience would be of more benefit.

[Tōtōchtin]

If I'm totally off base could someone point to some literature to educate me properly.

Maybe more practical experience would be of more benefit.

I'm getting there but I need one more trip up to the states to pick up what I ordered.

[Bolverk]

Before going through the work of building a thumper maybe try only running 1 or 2 plates. Low rec columns can get you pretty close to a double pot type results.

If you think of the boiler as 1 and a bubble cap plate as roughly 85% of a distillation 1 plate will get you 1.85 and 2 plates will get you 2.7, and then you can play with power and the water flow in your dephleg to kind of fine tune things from there.

So with 1 plate and a slightly heavier reflux ratio you can get pretty close to the results of a double pot still run.

All that being said... I still prefer a 1.5 run or pot/thumper for heavy flavor. Something about running plates (even just 1) still seems to keep the best flavors down in my observations.

[Tōtōchtin]

I have a variable column I can have 1-4 sieve plates with an optional condensor at the base. I have built some thumpers already with 2" lyne arms into them. 1) 7.5 gal set up as a boiler, thumper, steam gen.,1) 15 gal set up as a doubler and thumper, the other 15 gal as another boiler and thumper. I plan on using 2 thumpers for my rum using early tails with some local fruit and a little late tails with a little acid. A person here plays with rum and the flavor this way produces a nice tasting rum. I will experiment with the heads. I definitely would mix a late tails with really late sweet water with my corn mashes. A internet friend sent down a bottle of a corn rye whiskey distilled that way and it was much better than most store bought as they are too sweet me. Maybe I just like my bourbon smeared.
Tōtō

[Bolverk]

Interestingly I was able to find a commercial example of a double retort set up at Worthy Park with what appears to be a few rectification plates on the output of the last retort.

If you zoom in on the last thumper it look like there are bypass controls on a short column/riser that's going to the condenser. Based on their position and the number of valves it like there are 3 plates in there.

[Saltbush Bill]

Because they are there doesn't mean they are used for the entire run. There is the possibility that they are used in the early part of the run to help compress and milk off fores,
Alternately to hold back tails toward the end of a run.
There are a lot of ways that plates can be utilised.

[Yummyrum]

Interesting setup there Bolverk. I like the wooden covers on the Thumpers , presumably insulation .
Also cool to see the entire Kettle . We normally only get to see the bit above “ground “ and not the huge bit beneath.