Ethyl Carbamate in Continuous Stripping Stills

[Yummyrum]

Larry posted this link in a recent topic about SS verses Copper Condensers
.
https://distilling.com/distillermagazin ... perations/

I’ve always been aware that you need copper in the boiler or at least the Riser to catalyse the Hydrogen cyanide into Ethyl Carbamate so it ends up back in the boiler and doesn’t carry over .That is fine in a Batch striping still setup .

But this article highlighted that in a Continuous stripper ,the higher the beer feed is , the more EC is found in product .
Whats worse is if you use a SS stripper and feed the top of the column , there would be no copper at all to act as a catalyser . Having a copper heat exchanger makes it even worse still as this is the only copper n the still and it is on the descending side not the ascending one .

Further , the study mentioned that the main source of hydrogen cyanide in the beer comes from grains and in particular ,malts .

There have been a few SS stripping stills on here recently that are used with beer from grains .

This has got me a bit worried and I’m thinking should we be thinking about adding a big copper catalyser section above the beer feed to provide an attempt to remove as much EC as we can ?

I guess that batch distilling the low wines for the spirit run will assist but it is effectively the last chance for EC removal .

[LWTCS]

My take on that article Yummy is that copper preheaters would be very helpful.
Or I guess more specifically every bit of the circuitry prior to the injector.

[Yummyrum]

My take on that article Yummy is that copper preheaters would be very helpful.
Or I guess more specifically every bit of the circuitry prior to the injector.

Thanks Larry , I missed that . I was thinking about the top end and completely forgot about the beer preheating . should have coffee before posting .

Yeah so thats typically two preheaters that the beer has to pass through before reaching the top . This would certainly work on the liquid side of things similar to a Pot still with copper in the boiler ( assuming copper heat exchangers)

How much catalysing does the vapour flashing off the top need ? Or does it ?

[Demy]

A great article in the link. I usually put a little copper in the fermenter. I insert a coil of copper wires in the final distillation but I think the same should be done in the stripping phase....

[LWTCS]

My take on that article Yummy is that copper preheaters would be very helpful.
Or I guess more specifically every bit of the circuitry prior to the injector.

Thanks Larry , I missed that . I was thinking about the top end and completely forgot about the beer preheating . should have coffee before posting .

Yeah so thats typically two preheaters that the beer has to pass through before reaching the top . This would certainly work on the liquid side of things similar to a Pot still with copper in the boiler ( assuming copper heat exchangers)

How much catalysing does the vapour flashing off the top need ? Or does it ?

Yeah good question.
I have a customer in Rochester, NY that I will tap to send off a sample to a lab.
Basically his system is an all SS column with the beer injector at the top. The spirit side is an all copper inner wall on the reboiler with an all copper spirit column.

[Yummyrum]

Cool .
Will be great to hear what he comes back with .
This has got me wondering , is there a copper surface area to volume ratio that has been studied to effectively deal with EC .I read the more copper the better , but how much is actually needed ?
I guess that is a dumb question because it depends on how much is in the beer to begin with . But there must be a typical average .

[bluc]

Hey yummy this stuff is way over my head. Why copper in boiler vs copper still? Does copper still not return ec like copper in boiler? Apologies for newbness...

[Saltbush Bill]

Both is better is my understanding, copper in boiler and still.

[bluc]

Thanks salty.
If the stripper is all stainless will the copper in the spirit still do the same job on the low wines?

[Saltbush Bill]

I presume so, but not 100% sure......need someone who knows more than I for that.