Getting Started with Cider - Lots of Beginner questions

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Lblamboy
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Getting Started with Cider - Lots of Beginner questions

Post by Lblamboy »

Ok...So I know this is a distiller's forum, but I also know we have folks who have done lots of cider fermentations too. I'm swimming in carboys and my kids have shown some interest in mead and cider, so I'm throwing a ton of questions to those lurking cider gurus out there! I'm gonna share what I've been reading/learning, along with some questions, with the hopes that others will feel free to react, chime in and correct me where I'm making errors in my understanding/thinking! I'll break down the topic areas with ALL CAPS headings to make it a little easier to read.

SOURCE MATERIAL: I found a cheap sale on Mott's Apple Juice (half-off) and bought a LOT. I don't know what kind of apples they use, and I understand that cider gurus like to buy their own apples and press them, and that certain varieties and maturities are best for ciders, but I'm not at that point yet. Recommendations re juices I've seen say to go with Preservative Free Juices, but Asorbic Acid (Vitamin C) seems to be ok, as it's used in very small amounts and doesn't affect the yeast apparently? Some people talk about using juice concentrate as well, but I saw some small hints/indications that maybe concentrate has more preservatives and that made me wary for using it on initial batches. Do people use concentrate b/c it's cheaper or easier or something?!?

WATER: unlike with other brewing and distilling, I haven't seen people talking much about water chemistry with ciders...perhaps this is because they are using juice straight from the bottle typically, or pressed apples? Maybe this is really only an issue with those using concentrate?

OTHER INGREDIENTS: I bought some AllSpice, Cloves, Cinnamon Sticks and pulled some old light brown sugar out of the cupboard. Various recipes seem to like to add these sorts of things at various points, while I think some people don't like to add any additional sugar at all. Since I was going with Mott's and assume it might not be the best apple juice for ciders, I thought a little brown sugar would simultaneously raise the ABV slightly and also have a touch of molasses to help mask any off flavors on a first fermentation experiment. On future ferments I may use the spices, but I have to figure out when/how to add them. Do people do other things too?!?

YEAST - Lots of people seem to use EC-1118 or Nottingham. I used an English Ale that is similar to Notty. I gather these types of options will all work pretty well given the low ABV, coupled with high nutrient apple juices...but I'm not sure how to choose a yeast if I want the yeast to go dormant while sweet or semi-sweet without cold crashing?

NUTRIENTS and related new fermentation materials - This is a new area to me as an AG distilller, Nutrients are pretty important for meads it seems, but the counsel I've seen is to NOT add any nutrients to ciders...if anything, people seem to want to pull nitrogen OUT of cider, and much prefer the fermentation to go very slow...some even doing pre-fermentation processes to get an elusive brown cap (chapeaux brun) to take nitrogen out of the "must" (which I'd call a mash, though I'm sure there is some official difference in the terms).

Personally, I rehydrated my dry ale yeast for my first cider with
a) Go-Ferm - but I don't really know what else it does/has in it other than things to aid cell rehydration, and it may not have been necessary or might actually have been adding nutrients to the must?

I also see people referring to related terms like:

b) Yeast Nutrients (including Fermaid O, Fermaid K and DAP and old yeast cakes/trub in that bucket) different from
c) Yeast Energizer (which seems to be DAP with some hulls and some other nutrients?) which is different from
d) Dry Malt Extract (DME) (which is just sugar apparently, and used for building yeast starters),

I'm not really sure what the differences are between these four categories. WRT to cider, though, I don't see people saying ANY of these are really needed, and that b/c are probably actively NOT wanted in a cider fermentation. I'm not sure if using a little Go-Ferm or a starter with DME might be ok on cider, or if it risks making the fermentation go a little faster than wanted?

ABV and FERMENTATION - "Low and Slow" is the advice I've gotten - Low ABV, longer fermentation times than whiskeys...I "think" the slower fermentation goes, the less time you end up having to age the cider, but I'm not really sure if that's true? Fermenting itself is seemingly relatively uneventful - People seem to recommend not touching the ferment much at all - no degassing, even in early stages like the yeast lag, and generally just keeping it in a cool place out of sunlight. I "think" most say you should start racking to get the must off the lees once fermentation is basically done (based on gravity readings, not airlock bubbles), and that doing some occasional racking while it ages is a way to help clarify the final product as things flocculate out, but I don't see very much about how many rackings or the timing...it seems like ~2 is probably the general consensus on most beer/wine brewing sites, and that the timing of the second racking is probably driven more by when there is lees that has fallen out of the cider than anything else?

SWEETNESS LEVEL: Sweet, Semi-sweet and Dry - I don't know which type of cider we will like, but I suspect semi-sweet will be the way we end up...but there seem to be two ways to get there:
1) choosing your yeast and starting gravity in such a way that the yeast will go dry due to alcohol intolerance either around 1.00 (dry) or even a little higher like 1.02 (semi-sweet), OR
2) getting the must to your preferred gravity during the fermentation, but not letting it finish fully, and then cold crashing it and racking it several times over a period of weeks/months to effectively end fermentation and pull remaining yeast out of the product. I gather it may be hard to stop the fermentation really sweet though unless you use Campden and K-Meta? But I'm just not sure.

STABILIZING and AGING: People talk about "stabilizing" the cider using "K-Meta" (potassium metabisulfate) and Campden tabs, to effectively stop the yeast from reproducing, but it seems like those might also have some off-flavors that take a little time to age out? It seems to me like people age on:
1) glass, with an airlock, or
2) kegs (usually Cornelius/"Corny" or Torpedo or Northern Brew).
Beer brewers also seem to be MUCH more comfortable using PET type plastic fermenters, or even aging on them? Is that a fair assessment? Having started with distillation, I'm just not in that same place.

Also, I don't "think" stabilizing the cider is necessary if you're aging in a vessel with an airlock or one that can handle pressure if the yeast get active again (e.g., a corny keg)?

As for aging, people seem to generally say that more time is better for meads, but with apple cider, it apparently gets better for a while but eventually turns to vinegar on you at some point...I'm not sure how to tell when that point is approaching, and I imagine impatience with our first batches won't let us ever approach that point, as we'll be sampling along the way! I'd love to understand when/how/why the vinegar thing happens though!

BOTTLING: There seem to be two schools of thought - those who carbonate and those who don't. I'd like to try carbonating it, just to learn if nothing else, and it seems like using the cold crashing method to ending fermentation is the best way to have some active yeast for that approach...I don't know how you'd carbonate after stopping the fermentaiton with K-Meta and Campden tabs, but presume you might have to make some small yeast starter or something?!? Or maybe it's just not possible to carbonate after using Campden tabs and K-Meta? I've not looked up the recipe for sugar I would want to use after cold crashing yet, but I've seen a few that are pretty simple - a small amount of sugar water added to each bottle...my only hesitation is the risk of "bottle bombs" if you add too much, which risk I suspect is a bit higher if I am not really dry on the fermentation too? Is bottling a semi-sweet different or more risky than bottling a cider you let go to dry?

BACK SWEETENING - This is letting the fermentation run to dry, then adding sweetner back to the bottle before drinking...This sounds a little painful to me, but I'm curious if it's tedious and/or inconsistent from bottle to bottle? I'm also of the impression that the more dry you run the cider the more likely you have some off flavors and might need more aging...is that true? If so, it seems like it might be better to just stop the fermentation with a cold crash a little eary if one wants a semi-sweet, if it won't have to age as much? I'm also just not sure when/how the back-sweetening is done in relation to bottling if you want to carbonate the bottles? (that whole bottle bomb thing has me concerned and puzzled...I'm not sure if it's possible to carbonate every cider approach the same way, or if some approaches just make carbonation less viable (e.g., ending the ferment with chemicals but then back-sweetening while also wanting to carbonate...sounds a little like that might be impossible?!?)

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