Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

[theotherstu]

As above, this appears to be one of those that are "follow the instructions to the letter and you'll get out what you put in"

Followed the instructions to the letter and kept at 26c. Sadly, was unable to do anything on day 5, so left until day 7 and racked yesterday.
Bang on 0.990. I'll be taking a look tomorrow to see if it cleared (I've allowed it to cool somewhat - don't need the yeast to do its thing, just need it to clear) and will be doing a stripping run.

Smells much better than the molasses although I need to do some more of that.

[Garouda]

having probably done many many FFV over the past few years, it is better to wait.

Same here, I fully agree. In fact, I always make 3x TFFV each time, so 3x23L =+/- 70 litres, and mix three stripping runs low wines for one spirit run, in other words, a spirit run is the result of 210 litres of sugar wash. The fermentation occurs on my balcony, five days on average, the 'distillery' is another small house down the balcony and I use a silicone hose to drain down my fermenter into four 25l carboys that I can bring to the still room using a wheelbarrow, I leave it there for further clarification before distillation, for about three other days, and have similar yields. I only use my wife's kitchen to bring the sugar water mixture to boil, In the future everything is going to take place in the 'distillery' as I bought another gas burner, since I decided to use my BIAB setting to make grain booze.

[artooks]

Hi,

I normally do 2 fermentation and 2 stripping runs, for my reflux I use my ccvm still, is it ok to use a ccvm still ? or would it be better to do another potstill spirit run ?

[TwoSheds]

Hey Artooks,

I honestly don't think you can go wrong with this recipe if you get the ferment right, so the more important question is probably what are you doing with it?

Taste as close as you can get to the middle of your stripping run and you'll probably get an idea of what a pot still run would be like (unless you're stripping really fast and hard.) If you want a wheaty vodka you might like it. I find the low wines from this stuff very plesant.

But if you're headed for more of a true vodka with just a shadow of where it came from or you need a true neutral for a delicate infusion I'd say stick to your CCVM.

I've used plenty of this stuff run through too short a packed column and run too quickly such that it had plenty of character in the end. Never ended up with anything I didnt like.

[artooks]

Hey Artooks,

I honestly don't think you can go wrong with this recipe if you get the ferment right, so the more important question is probably what are you doing with it?

Taste as close as you can get to the middle of your stripping run and you'll probably get an idea of what a pot still run would be like (unless you're stripping really fast and hard.) If you want a wheaty vodka you might like it. I find the low wines from this stuff very plesant.

But if you're headed for more of a true vodka with just a shadow of where it came from or you need a true neutral for a delicate infusion I'd say stick to your CCVM.

I've used plenty of this stuff run through too short a packed column and run too quickly such that it had plenty of character in the end. Never ended up with anything I didnt like.

Thank you actually I should rephrase my question, some people I see use a bubble cap still for vodka, so I was wondering myself if using a CCVM is similar in that regard ?

[TwoSheds]

That will depend how you pack and run it, but yeah, similar.

[Garouda]

Hi,

I normally do 2 fermentation and 2 stripping runs, for my reflux I use my ccvm still, is it ok to use a ccvm still ? or would it be better to do another potstill spirit run ?

Pot still full speed for your stripping runs, then a reflux still for your spirit run, I have got a Ø 3" VM still with which I can get a neutral vodka even from molasses, so what you do is OK. The result depends upon how effective are your CCVM still and your cuts. If you want a real neutral vodka, use your CCVM still, of course, not a pot still for your spirit run! I always separate my spirit run, keep the first two 250ml bottles, then everything is divided into 500ml bottles. After that, I taste each of the 500ml bottles by adding water in a glass. This enables to clearly identify the different cuts. I spit what's in my mouth into a bucket, and what's left in the glass goes into a bottle that will join my next spirit run.
In my example with molasses, I took vodka to make some gin, the rest was kept as rum by adding a little from my second 250ml bottle and some tails according to taste. I had no dunder at that time. When I make TFFV, part of the spirit run is used to make gin, the rest to make Curacao-like liqueurs, or pastis.

[Garouda]

Thank you actually I should rephrase my question, some people I see use a bubble cap still for vodka, so I was wondering myself if using a CCVM is similar in that regard ?

Normally, a bubble cap still is used to make flavoured brandies, I refer to one of my first posts in 2011, based on what they do in Germany. In such a still, there are 3 plates, and a dephlegmator. Some are building bubble cap stills with numerous plates, so you can get a vodka with such a still as well. There's often a dephlegmator on top of such a still, it works according to the cooling management method, which IMHO is more touchy than VM, or CCVM.
For a vodka, as TwoSheds wrote, stick to your CCVM still.
A CCVM still is simpler than a VM still, but I can hardly see my self fighting with a coil while standing on the top of a ladder, that's why I prefer a VM still with a gate valve.
Some people say that the advantage of a CCVM still is its versatility, well with triclamp sanitary fittings, I only have to replace one part to use my VM still as a pot still, and working with a gate valve is very easy.

[theotherstu]

As above, this appears to be one of those that are "follow the instructions to the letter and you'll get out what you put in"

Followed the instructions to the letter and kept at 26c. Sadly, was unable to do anything on day 5, so left until day 7 and racked yesterday.
Bang on 0.990. I'll be taking a look tomorrow to see if it cleared (I've allowed it to cool somewhat - don't need the yeast to do its thing, just need it to clear) and will be doing a stripping run.

Smells much better than the molasses although I need to do some more of that.

Just following up (more for my sanity than anything else), but I did a stripping run then a spirit run. Of all the (relatively few) that I've done, this absolutely stuck to the 3+17% - 60% - 20% rule. My word, with 20% to go, it absolutely fell off a cliff in terms of tails. I hate waste, so I was tasting every 100ml or so. One minute, a pleasant tasting vodka (I do love the slightly wheaty taste) and the next, bleurgh. Like liquid cardboard.

As a bonus, I had something sticky on my car. The 85% foreshot got that off lovely with little persuasion - lightly dabbed on with a cloth and it almost rubbed off.

Does anyone else use excel spreadsheets to try and calculate stuff as you're doing runs? I absolutely love it. I'm saving them - not that I don't believe that things can be different even with the same ingredients - but just because I'm a nerd like that.

It's also easier, if you're watering down, to work out how much you need because you know exactly what the percentage is at any one time.

[Garouda]

Does anyone else use excel spreadsheets to try and calculate stuff as you're doing runs? I absolutely love it. I'm saving them - not that I don't believe that things can be different even with the same ingredients - but just because I'm a nerd like that.

It's also easier, if you're watering down, to work out how much you need because you know exactly what the percentage is at any one time.

I have a spreadsheet for all my batches, I also made a workbook with a dilution calculator taking contraction into account, I copied values from a Gay-Lussac table and from a Fertman's table. I'm willing to share, but although I'm not new on this forum, I don't know whether we can upload Excel files or not...

This works with a table containing the most common contraction factors

[quadra]

Deleted

[theotherstu]

Does anyone else use excel spreadsheets to try and calculate stuff as you're doing runs? I absolutely love it. I'm saving them - not that I don't believe that things can be different even with the same ingredients - but just because I'm a nerd like that.

It's also easier, if you're watering down, to work out how much you need because you know exactly what the percentage is at any one time.

I have a spreadsheet for all my batches, I also made a workbook with a dilution calculator taking contraction into account, I copied values from a Gay-Lussac table and from a Fertman's table. I'm willing to share, but although I'm not new on this forum, I don't know whether we can upload Excel files or not...spirit calculator.jpg

That sounds right up my street!
I'm happy to host it on a OneDrive or whatever and share the link out.
email is me AT theotherstu.co.uk

[Saltbush Bill]

We seem to be wandering off topic here.....if people want to discuss Excel and things other than this recipe then start a new topic.

[Osse87]

Are the 50 grams of yeast dry yeast or the cube sized clay like yeast packages? Where I live the dry bread yeast packs are 14g which is equal to 50g of the cube yeast packs it says on the pouch, so about 4 times more yeast per weight. I used cube pack 50g and I'm afraid I almost pitched a quarter of the amount of yeast stated in the recipe. Having slow fermentation right now so I pitched some more. Also do you use yeast for sweet doughs or just regular bread yeast?

[TwoSheds]

I think most are using regular bread yeast for this, at least I am. "Instant" or "active dry" yeast should be about the same measure and results.

I don't think there's any reason not to use the wet stuff just figure out the equivalent (I wouldn't just trust what's on the package.) I think even refrigerated the wet stuff has a much shorter shelf life too, so less convenient for most of us.

[howie]

Are the 50 grams of yeast dry yeast or the cube sized clay like yeast packages? Where I live the dry bread yeast packs are 14g which is equal to 50g of the cube yeast packs it says on the pouch, so about 4 times more yeast per weight. I used cube pack 50g and I'm afraid I almost pitched a quarter of the amount of yeast stated in the recipe. Having slow fermentation right now so I pitched some more. Also do you use yeast for sweet doughs or just regular bread yeast?

FFV calls for plain old bakers yeast.
$4.80aud for a 280gm box.
https://www.woolworths.com.au/shop/prod ... ed-instant

not sure what brands you're looking at when you say 14g = 50g

[Dunkydonuts]

Oh a big upvote for this recipe. I was really struggling to get wineos sugar wash working. It was stalling out really early and I was troubleshooting it so much that I decided to give up and try Teds. Boom, job done, it set off like a steam train and it took 3 days to get to 1.000 and 4 more days to finish off at 0.090

For those of you who like me, love to geek out on a bit of data below is my graph from a RAPT pill. Starting sg 1.075 and ferment temps held at 33C°with a heating pad. Ph started at 5.2 and monitored all the way through. I didn’t buffer it and it got to 3.8 but I held off from adjusting that because if my journey with Wineos has taught me anything you can go a bit lower before it crashes.

Anyway the wash tastes much better already. Now to rack, settle, strip run and spirit run the stuff and see how it goes to make a gin.

[Garouda]

Congratulations and welcome to the club!

[TwoSheds]

Oh a big upvote for this recipe. I was really struggling to get wineos sugar wash working. It was stalling out really early and I was troubleshooting it so much that I decided to give up and try Teds.

Matches my experience. I've had Birdwatchers and other sugar washes drop pH and stall but not this one. Using the same method last time I used some leftover grains (wheat and oats) instead of bran and it worked just as well or better!

Great recipe and great method!

[Garouda]

Matches my experience. I've had Birdwatchers and other sugar washes drop pH and stall but not this one. Using the same method last time I used some leftover grains (wheat and oats) instead of bran and it worked just as well or better!

Great recipe and great method!

Good suggestion, for those who brew grain washes and can use some leftover, whole grains of wheat, oats, rye, barley, you have all the nutrients available in those cereals (bran, plus the grain itself). I keep using sticky rice bran because I can get it for free , we grow sticky rice here...

[FriedFishFury]

Strong fermentation for 5 days now, no signs of slowing down, og 60 and now reading 8% in the refract, the only thing I did was add some Angel yellow because I read bakers yeast is fast but can't handle alcohol, but brewers yeast takes longer with greater tolerances. How far am I from the truth.

[Saltbush Bill]

A long way from the truth, bakers yeast does just fine with alcohol. It is the prefered yeast by many people here for many different recipes.
You don't want to be making washes or mashes higher in alcoholic abv than bakers yeast can handle anyway.

[Osse87]

I just started two 14 liter batches of this one, I tried to scale the recipe to 14 liters by taking 23 / 14 and got 1.64, then divided the amount of sugar for 23 liters by 1.64 and got 2.43 kilos for 14 liters which I added. My hydrometer showed around 1.072 in OG and I hope the yeast will be able to handle it without throwing too much off-flavours. Were my calculations off or why did I get that much higher OG than what's intended?

I started the batches about 5 hours ago and will add another 5.5 grams of rehydrated yeast to each just now and hope it will turn out fine.

[Yummyrum]

I just started two 14 liter batches of this one, I tried to scale the recipe to 14 liters by taking 23 / 14 and got 1.64, then divided the amount of sugar for 23 liters by 1.64 and got 2.43 kilos for 14 liters which I added. My hydrometer showed around 1.072 in OG and I hope the yeast will be able to handle it without throwing too much off-flavours. Were my calculations off or why did I get that much higher OG than what's intended?

I started the batches about 5 hours ago and will add another 5.5 grams of rehydrated yeast to each just now and hope it will turn out fine.

Plugging your Sugar into a Sugar wash Calc I got this . Note: where it says Volume of water , it should say Volume of Wash .
Maybe when you took your Start Gravity reading , you did not temperature correct the reading . Remember that Hydrometers are usually calibrated @ 20°C although some are at 16°C

BTW , I think you will be just fine .
It’s the same as Teds .

[Garouda]

Strong fermentation for 5 days now, no signs of slowing down, og 60 and now reading 8% in the refract, the only thing I did was add some Angel yellow because I read bakers yeast is fast but can't handle alcohol, but brewers yeast takes longer with greater tolerances. How far am I from the truth.

Just be aware that you cannot trust the refractometer due to the presence of alcohol. There are formulas to correct your value, and some websites provide a calculator. This topic was discussed earlier on this forum.
Here for your refractometer, referred to by Bilgriss in the topic 'Bourbon Stall' https://www.northernbrewer.com/pages/re ... calculator

I confirm that baker's yeast do a nice job. Angel yellow is developed to deal with starch, so there's no added value in a sugar wash.

I'm using baker's yeast of the Belgian brand Bruggeman, the one with the red package. That yeast is specially developed for countries where they add more sugar than usual in their products.

SG Calculators can be found here:https://homedistiller.org/wiki/htm/calc ... gar_sg.htm

[Osse87]

I just started two 14 liter batches of this one, I tried to scale the recipe to 14 liters by taking 23 / 14 and got 1.64, then divided the amount of sugar for 23 liters by 1.64 and got 2.43 kilos for 14 liters which I added. My hydrometer showed around 1.072 in OG and I hope the yeast will be able to handle it without throwing too much off-flavours. Were my calculations off or why did I get that much higher OG than what's intended?

I started the batches about 5 hours ago and will add another 5.5 grams of rehydrated yeast to each just now and hope it will turn out fine.

Plugging your Sugar into a Sugar wash Calc I got this . Note: where it says Volume of water , it should say Volume of Wash .
Maybe when you took your Start Gravity reading , you did not temperature correct the reading . Remember that Hydrometers are usually calibrated @ 20°C although some are at 16°C

IMG_0032.jpeg

BTW , I think you will be just fine .
It’s the same as Teds .IMG_0033.jpeg

Thanks yummy My hydro is calibed for 20°c, I had around 27-28 degrees C in my wash and accounted for it in brewfather and it actually rose a little (from 1.072 to 1.074) when I did this, I might need to check my crushed rye (afaik kibbled rye, or as close as I can get to it in my local store) and wheat bran in a small simmering boil and see if they release any sugars.

[howie]

Thanks yummy My hydro is calibed for 20°c, I had around 27-28 degrees C in my wash and accounted for it in brewfather and it actually rose a little (from 1.072 to 1.074) when I did this, I might need to check my crushed rye (afaik kibbled rye, or as close as I can get to it in my local store) and wheat bran in a small simmering boil and see if they release any sugars.
[/quote]

i think the bran or rye is mainly added for flavour only.
AFAIK wheat bran hasn't got any starch and (according to my packet) only 6.75gms of sugar per 250gms.
so they will have a negligible effect on SG

[theotherstu]

I'm about 126 litres of wash into this recipe (I generally get about 21 litres out of 4kg of sugar)
Follow the recipe exactly. I'm using Fermipan yeast.

I do the same thing every time - bear in mind, I'm using an Air Still.
Stripping run, taking off the first 50ml of each one as foreshots. Going down to around 15%.
This gives me around 4.5l of low wines.

On the final run, I get:
First 100ml throw away as foreshots.
~300ml heads
1600ml hearts - around 70% ABV
~400ml tails

I've got to the point where after around 1400ml of hearts, I start taste testing.
Once tails properly kicks in, I turn the still off - I don't really find any point of keeping tails.

I've got a few hundred ml of around 50% ABV cleaning alcohol which is useful

[Dunkydonuts]

This recipe for me was charging away until around 1.010 in 2-3 days and then slowly getting the rest of the way to 0.990 over the next 6-7 days.

For the next batch I added a half tsp of epsom salts (for a 60 ltr wash) and the whole thing got to 0.990 within 4 days.

A happy result and maybe that might help others but I’m also thinking my water maybe lacks a few minerals to start with?

[Bee]

This recipe for me was charging away until around 1.010 in 2-3 days and then slowly getting the rest of the way to 0.990 over the next 6-7 days.

For the next batch I added a half tsp of epsom salts (for a 60 ltr wash) and the whole thing got to 0.990 within 4 days.

A happy result and maybe that might help others but I’m also thinking my water maybe lacks a few minerals to start with?

Certainly. Unless you are using a known-chemistry water like distilled, RO or rain water, everyone's water source is different and you won't get the same results. Most municipal water ranges from bad to terrible due to the supplier's desire to prevent pipe corrosion and avoid Flint scenarios.

If you want to optimize your results (fermenting time, yield, and even flavor) you'll either start with a known chemistry water and treat accordingly or have your water source tested and use a tool like Bru'n Water to treat and optimize it.