Fraction 1 - RUM

[lulivie]

Hi, I'm new in this forum. First of all, I'd like to thank everyone for their attention. In my molasses distillations I tend to cut a lot of fraction 1, basically for health safety reasons. By doing so, I inevitably lose many congeneric substances, which would probably give more complexity and depth to my final rums. So, I've been thinking for some time about how to possibly change my cut of fraction 1... First of all, I wanted to ask you if fractions 1 of molasses distillates contain particularly harmful substances that should be absolutely avoided, and what advice you could give me regarding specific precautions to use when cutting fractions 1, specifically how to ensure the greatest quantity of congenerics without incorporating substances that are actually harmful to the Health. To make an example, to try to explain better: besides diketone compounds, do you have methil alcohol in fraction 1 ? Or others specific dangerous compounds to avoid ? And, last but not least: how "to manage" the entire thing, could you give me some suggestions or thoughts from your experience ? Thk U so much indeed ! Cheers

[Bolverk]

How are you defining fraction 1?
Fraction 1 of how many? Are you collecting in say 20 jars or are you doing Arroyo's method of 5 fractions?

What equipment are you using? Double pot, pot/retort, double retort, reflux, How many plates?

Did you ferment hot or cold, did you stress the yeast for extra ester production?

There are so many things to answer before we could give you an answer...

[lulivie]

I'm very sorry but I don't know the Arroyo method (what is it ?). With "fraction 1" I'm referring to the first of 3 fractions (fraction 1 = the cutting of the head). I use this distiller:

https://www.maritastills.es/it/idraulic ... pleto.html

and I fermented the molasses with a yeast Still Spirits at 24 degrees centigrade in a temperature controlled fermenter (24 ° the first 2 days, after 2 days the temperature progressively rose by 1 degree per day up to 28 degrees).

If you have other questions, I'm here, happy to answer. I wrote to this forum to learn, here in Italy the "literature" is minimal and the information doesn't circulate....

[Bolverk]

If you collected your distillate in only 3 fractions, your heads fraction is likely contaminated with foreshots and wouldn't be usable (you can rerun those feints and try again later).

At a minimum I'd collect in 4 fractions
1. Foreshots
2. heads
3. hearts
4. tails

Unless you've mastered the art of rolling or live cuts I'd recommend you get a bunch of small jars and collect your distillate as it comes off and then you'll be able to segment out the desirable fractions and combine them with your hearts.

Yes, there is a little bit of good stuff with tons of flavor in the heads and tails, but you need to be able to pull those out. The easy way is collecting in multiple jars and only adding the heads and tails portions you think are good enough to make the cut.

That still is going to have a lot of passive reflux, but I honestly don't know how much... it could be enough for a single pass run, but it also couldn't. What abv/proof were you middle hearts when you were running it?

[tombombadil]

Make your cuts by flavor and aroma.
The foreshots or the heads are not any more poisonous than the other fractions.

[Yummyrum]

Yes collect in many jars .

viewtopic.php?p=7500094#p7500094

That first jar and maybe the second should be avoided as they simply taste disgusting and contain acetone . When it comes to Rum , I find there is nothing that ages well in the tails but the heads certainly have the desirable flavours . How you age will make a difference to how much of the heads you keep .If you are going to age in a barrel , you might want to keep the majority of the heads as they seem to add flavour but slowly dissipate .
But if you are aging in sealed glass jars then use only the late heads .When aging in glass , it’s important to periodically open the jar .
How much heads you add is a compromise between flavour and headache .

As far as Methanol , well there is almost none produced during a Rum fermentation and it had been found that Methanol does not come out in the initial foreshots cut , but rather comes out during the entire run .

[lulivie]

Thank you so much. Now I need a few days, I have to think about it. I'll be in touch again in a few days.

[lulivie]

First of all, I apologize for the time I waste your time. I confess that I understood very little of the following, about the glass cannula method:

a) in theory I should test the individual jars on the basis of the same ABV alcohol content, otherwise it is difficult to get an idea, subsequently, of how to make the bland. I don't understand how I can determine the same alcohol content (I didn't understand how the scale graduated, nor how much of the distillate it takes and then how much water it takes.... Furthermore, I also have this further doubt: I get different alcohol levels of the distillate during the process, depending on where I am in the process, for example at the beginning, once the heads phase has passed I easily have 85%, then afterwards the alcohol content tends to progressively decrease, by acting on the dephlegmator I try to maintain around around 70% (I try never to go below this value, but it's an empirical decision, I don't know if it's correct...), but I manage to keep it "approximately" around this value, it's not that there isn't variability, it's a continued correction… So, in the end, I may have jars that have similar but not quite identical alcohol content…. Could you explain it to me, I mean, how to use this method ? It's interesting

b) I didn't understand how you graduated the scale and how you then use this gradation of the scale itself

Furthermore:

let's start from fermentation: maybe I should work better on the muckpit, because if I understand correctly, that's where I can derive high levels of fruity esters, therefore complexity. Correct ?
About yeasts: do you use a specific one that you recommend? Could bread-making ones be fine, or is it better to use specific yeasts (like lallemand and so on)? Do bread makers have sufficient tolerance to alcohol?
When you make rum from molasses (here in Europe only that comes, there is no cane syrup available for purchase) do you double distill or is it a mistake?
How exactly do you do the barrel aging? Simply a finished product at 60 degrees ABV, or something different?

Thk U so much !!
Cheers
Luca
​

[Dougmatt]

Couple of thoughts for you

a) in theory I should test the individual jars on the basis of the same ABV alcohol content, otherwise it is difficult to get an idea, subsequently, of how to make the bland. I don't understand how I can determine the same alcohol content (I didn't understand how the scale graduated, nor how much of the distillate it takes and then how much water it takes.... Furthermore, I also have this further doubt: I get different alcohol levels of the distillate during the process, depending on where I am in the process, for example at the beginning, once the heads phase has passed I easily have 85%, then afterwards the alcohol content tends to progressively decrease, by acting on the dephlegmator I try to maintain around around 70% (I try never to go below this value, but it's an empirical decision, I don't know if it's correct...), but I manage to keep it "approximately" around this value, it's not that there isn't variability, it's a continued correction… So, in the end, I may have jars that have similar but not quite identical alcohol content…. Could you explain it to me, I mean, how to use this method ? It's interesting

I think Everyone does this dilution to taste differently. For example, Yummy uses his glass tube, I use a graduated pipette to measure amounts and get to an Abv I want to taste at, etc. you don’t have to be exact here, just get things “close” so that you are tasting nearer a drinking proof. I can’t comment on the deflag because I run a pot.

b) I didn't understand how you graduated the scale and how you then use this gradation of the scale itself

If you don’t want to do the graduation, just buy pre graduated pipettes. Ex:



Furthermore:

let's start from fermentation: maybe I should work better on the muckpit, because if I understand correctly, that's where I can derive high levels of fruity esters, therefore complexity. Correct ?

If you want a muck pit, go for it. I use fresh dunder myself and get a lot of esters, but a muck / dunder pit will certainly change and affect things. How do you know if you will like that change? What kinds of rums do you like? If I was you, I would first focus on getting the other things right as the impact of infected dunder may or may not be to your liking and getting the rest of it right is probably more important. Basically pick a recipe, learn it, understand it, then figure out how you want to adjust it.

About yeasts: do you use a specific one that you recommend? Could bread-making ones be fine, or is it better to use specific yeasts (like lallemand and so on)? Do bread makers have sufficient tolerance to alcohol?

Bread yeast is grown on molasses. It’s perfect for Rum. Use it to learn, and if you want to branch out later then do it.

When you make rum from molasses (here in Europe only that comes, there is no cane syrup available for purchase) do you double distill or is it a mistake?

I double distill. I prefer. Lighter ruminess and even doubled, pure molasses is A LOT. Some people do a 1.5. I suggest you double for your first several batches until you start to understand what you are making and what direction you want to take what you are making.

How exactly do you do the barrel aging? Simply a finished product at 60 degrees ABV, or something different?
​

Everyone does this differently too. Barrel aging is about 50% of the final spirit flavor so it’s a big part of why everyone’s Rum is different…. I’ve tried lower proof and higher proof barrel aging and have landed on barrel entry at 62.5% in a second use bourbon barrel. I find at that proof, the initial strong tannins that pull mellow out after around a year. I also Solera my rum and each barrel is a step down in proof. Whatever my entry proof goal is, I try to adjust ,y process so the result off the still is as close to the barrel entry proof i can get to avoid dilution.

There are lots of threads about oaking and it’s a deep rabbit hole including what flavors you can expect to pull at what proof, and the impact on tannins.