Single malt barley whiskry horrible taste

[Moonshine31]

Just finished my first single malt barley whiskey and it taste horrible. Was supposed to get 10L from the recipe I followed and only got 3.5L from 40lbs malted barley. It's only a few days old but I'm not joking the low wines or whatever it's called after the first distillation tasted way better than my finished product after the second much slower distillation.

Is this normal?

[Bradster68]

Just finished my first single malt barley whiskey and it taste horrible. Was supposed to get 10L from the recipe I followed and only got 3.5L from 40lbs malted barley. It's only a few days old but I'm not joking the low wines or whatever it's called after the first distillation tasted way better than my finished product after the second much slower distillation.

Is this normal?

Taste bad after a few days? Suppose to get?
You've got a lot of variables to consider. But a few days is no way to judge a spirit!
My best is only 8 months old and just coming around now.
And maybe you tasted a small heart section of the stripping run, that wasn't too bad?
Cuts are important.
If this was only your first run of a single malt you've got some.more research and practice ahead of you.

[jonnys_spirit]

10L is about 2.5 gallons. That sounds like a wide cut for 40# of grain. My AG’s yield about 2.5-3g @~120proof with about 100# of grain… give or take..

Can you post the link to the recipe you followed?

Cheers,
jonny

[SaltyStaves]

For all we know, a single malt whisky has never passed your lips and you've made something that is the perfect representation of one, but you just hate malted barley... What are you comparing to?

The last time I made single malt with 40lbs, I got 20L of low wines at 25.5% ABV. That was combined with 5L of heads and 750ml feints (from previous runs) to give me a spirit run of 26L at 36.5% ABV
The hearts cut from that was 5.7L @74.5% ABV.

[Saltbush Bill]

You cant judge anything much in the way of brown spirits in only a few days.
Single Malt Whisky especially ......Single Malt made from Barley = Scotch style in my books.
From my own experience and that Ive read from others who make good Scotch , wide cuts are needed for a good final product....it aint going to taste great till its done a year or two on oak.....preferably in a barrel.
As a matter of interest would you mind telling what recipe you used ?

[Yummyrum]

Perhaps you have just discovered why Scotch whisky's are sold as 8, 10, 12 , 15 yr old or more . If they could sell them as soon as they made them , I’m sure they would .Save them a fortune …..but they don’t .

For the record , I had a similar experience . Made single Malt Barley , neither me nor anyone else could stomach it even after 2-3 years . We found it this New Years when we were pissed and looking through the shed for something different .
Well its about 6-7 years old now and even though its been in a demijohn with some Oak sticks and opened a few times over the years , it actually is starting to taste like a Scotch single malt .

Instant gratification seems not to be a thing when it comes to making Whisky or even Rum

[bilgriss]

When I do all malts, a fifty pound sack will get me three right-sized ferments for my 8 gallon pot. The spirit run will leave me with somewhat more than a gallon to age. I'd be interested in the recipe used in this case to see why it might set such unrealistic expectations.

As for taste, that's going to be a combination of the health of your ferment, the spirit run, and quality cuts - all coupled with some patience as noted above. If you can provide us with more detail, we can speculate further.

[Deplorable]

As others above said. wide cuts and much time on oak is what a barley single malt needs.
I've done a few now and none of them were anything other than grassy off the still, even in the middle of the spirit run.
But cut wide and properly aged makes a fine whiskey. Not a chance Id try sippin' the white dog that went into the final cut.
from my notes, 50 pounds of barley, will get me about 6.5 to 7 quarts of 60 to 63% to put up on wood. 100 pounds filled 2 Badmo barrels with a liter left over to age in glass on sticks.

[Swedish Pride]

I've made loads of good single malt that's enjoyable after 6 months.

Trick is a plater and good cuts.

On a pot still the trick is good cuts and time.
Tails age out better than heads.

Time on oak helps, time in oak helps more.

[Moonshine31]

Thank you everyone for the answers, I followed this recipe viewtopic.php?t=48650.
My fermentation it seems was weak but this was a lot of work for 3.5L. I honestly just want something cheap and easy to make and drink asap. I'll be looking into that ujjsm recipe or the sugar wash one next.
My fav alchohol is glenfidditch green but I have drank johnny walker green along with blue and pretty much every color (I know green is the only signal malt).
I think age will help it for sure but I just can't understand how my mixture of low wines in a cooler tasted like candy and my jerred up 500ml final spirit run smells and tastes like "armpit" like one of my buddy's said.

I said I would just drink the low wines and skip the spirit run but people yelled at me.

[Bradster68]

Thank you everyone for the answers, I followed this recipe viewtopic.php?t=48650.
My fermentation it seems was weak but this was a lot of work for 3.5L. I honestly just want something cheap and easy to make and drink asap. I'll be looking into that ujjsm recipe or the sugar wash one next.
My fav alchohol is glenfidditch green but I have drank johnny walker green along with blue and pretty much every color (I know green is the only signal malt).
I think age will help it for sure but I just can't understand how my mixture of low wines in a cooler tasted like candy and my jerred up 500ml final spirit run smells and tastes like "armpit" like one of my buddy's said.

I said I would just drink the low wines and skip the spirit run but people yelled at me.

Jimbos wheated bourbon is a definite hit.
But don't expect to be drinking a recipe like this in 3 months.
A real AG will be at least a year. IMO.
Even ujssm,and iv not made this yet. Needs time on oak to mature. I feel if you want something instant, maybe make some neutral and infusion of some kind.
Odins gin,or a some syrup recipe of some kind.
Anything AG will need some patience.
And to add,I'm not sure how your low wines can compare to a spirit run with decent cuts. Even when not aged?
Just know that a vodka can be made fairly cheap and easy( with little to no aging)compared to an AG.with tons of options for drinking.

[NormandieStill]

Thank you everyone for the answers, I followed this recipe viewtopic.php?t=48650.
My fermentation it seems was weak but this was a lot of work for 3.5L. I honestly just want something cheap and easy to make and drink asap. I'll be looking into that ujjsm recipe or the sugar wash one next.
My fav alchohol is glenfidditch green but I have drank johnny walker green along with blue and pretty much every color (I know green is the only signal malt).
I think age will help it for sure but I just can't understand how my mixture of low wines in a cooler tasted like candy and my jerred up 500ml final spirit run smells and tastes like "armpit" like one of my buddy's said.

I said I would just drink the low wines and skip the spirit run but people yelled at me.

Jimbo claims 5.3 litres from 18kg after cuts but I'm guessing that's gonna need some good oaking to clean up afterwards.

Glenfiddich 12 (I assume that's your "green") has enjoyed 12 years in an oak barrel. That's a lot of sampling by angels and a lot of time for ester formation from the crud that came over in the tails. Your new make will never stand up against that.

If you want something simple and cheap, which can be drinkable white or after a little time on oak, try the Honey Bear Bourbon. I'd recommend getting some enzymes to make your life easier and improve your chances for getting decent yield. At 66% corn the ingredients are cheaper than malted barley and a reasonably tight hearts cut will be drinkable white even if it'll still benefit from at least 6 months on oak.

[Dougmatt]

Thank you everyone for the answers, I followed this recipe viewtopic.php?t=48650.
My fermentation it seems was weak but this was a lot of work for 3.5L. I honestly just want something cheap and easy to make and drink asap. I'll be looking into that ujjsm recipe or the sugar wash one next.
My fav alchohol is glenfidditch green but I have drank johnny walker green along with blue and pretty much every color (I know green is the only signal malt).
I think age will help it for sure but I just can't understand how my mixture of low wines in a cooler tasted like candy and my jerred up 500ml final spirit run smells and tastes like "armpit" like one of my buddy's said.

I said I would just drink the low wines and skip the spirit run but people yelled at me.

Everyone on this thread is talking aging, which I agree is very important.

That said, “armpit” as a taste profile indicates a possible problem to me. Your second distillation should have cleaned things up more than the first. Low wines can definitely be flavorful and sweet, especially right in the heart zone, but hearts in the spirit run should have less “flavor” and taste more “clean”. That second distillation will really consolidate flavors and those should be “good” flavors…. I would not include armpit in that.

Can you be more specific about the flavor you are getting? Maybe it’s the high abv? Try diluting a small sample to 20-25% Abv to taste it and see if it still tastes like armpit.

some ideas of what may have happened:

- scorch - if it’s a burnt /gasoline smell then perhaps a scorch occurred somewhere during your run. Do you run on an internal element? Usually a scorch shows up in low wines as that’s where the particulate is.

- plastic contamination - sounds like you stored your low wines in a cooler. That Abv was probably high enough to melt off and entrap plastic which will carry over in the distillate and may also be the source of the above scorch?

- poor fermentation - this won’t really explain the low wines good / second distillation bad problem, but generally is the source of “off flavors”. What yeast did you use, and what was your fermentation like?

- poor cuts - you added too many heads (burnt, harsh, acetone flavor) or too many tails (wet dog, cardboard, vomit). How many fractions did you take and which ones did you include?

Try to describe what you are tasting a little better and maybe something will jump out to us to help troubleshoot and fix, or at least avoid next time.

If you just want quick, easy alcohol, probably best to just pick a sugar wash and be done. They are a lot easier than grain. If you want a whiskey flavor, then ujssm or cornflake work. Those are quick to drink and produce an ok faux whiskey. Single malt is NOT quick.

[Moonshine31]

Thank you everyone for the answers, I followed this recipe viewtopic.php?t=48650.
My fermentation it seems was weak but this was a lot of work for 3.5L. I honestly just want something cheap and easy to make and drink asap. I'll be looking into that ujjsm recipe or the sugar wash one next.
My fav alchohol is glenfidditch green but I have drank johnny walker green along with blue and pretty much every color (I know green is the only signal malt).
I think age will help it for sure but I just can't understand how my mixture of low wines in a cooler tasted like candy and my jerred up 500ml final spirit run smells and tastes like "armpit" like one of my buddy's said.

I said I would just drink the low wines and skip the spirit run but people yelled at me.

Everyone on this thread is talking aging, which I agree is very important.

That said, “armpit” as a taste profile indicates a possible problem to me. Your second distillation should have cleaned things up more than the first. Low wines can definitely be flavorful and sweet, especially right in the heart zone, but hearts in the spirit run should have less “flavor” and taste more “clean”. That second distillation will really consolidate flavors and those should be “good” flavors…. I would not include armpit in that.

Can you be more specific about the flavor you are getting? Maybe it’s the high abv? Try diluting a small sample to 20-25% Abv to taste it and see if it still tastes like armpit.

some ideas of what may have happened:

- scorch - if it’s a burnt /gasoline smell then perhaps a scorch occurred somewhere during your run. Do you run on an internal element? Usually a scorch shows up in low wines as that’s where the particulate is.

- plastic contamination - sounds like you stored your low wines in a cooler. That Abv was probably high enough to melt off and entrap plastic which will carry over in the distillate and may also be the source of the above scorch?

- poor fermentation - this won’t really explain the low wines good / second distillation bad problem, but generally is the source of “off flavors”. What yeast did you use, and what was your fermentation like?

- poor cuts - you added too many heads (burnt, harsh, acetone flavor) or too many tails (wet dog, cardboard, vomit). How many fractions did you take and which ones did you include?

Try to describe what you are tasting a little better and maybe something will jump out to us to help troubleshoot and fix, or at least avoid next time.

If you just want quick, easy alcohol, probably best to just pick a sugar wash and be done. They are a lot easier than grain. If you want a whiskey flavor, then ujssm or cornflake work. Those are quick to drink and produce an ok faux whiskey. Single malt is NOT quick.

When everything was mixed in my cooler I was drinking the low wines around 30+%, not sure on the exact percentage but it was still coming from the spout at 30 so I know my cooler was higher than that.

When I drank my spirit run I had 7 jars and I drank the entire jar that was roughly 40%, no mixing or blending, I think it was numbered 3 or 4.

My setup is propane burner under a keg, for the stripping runs I ran it hard and for the stripping run I ran it as slow as I could without stopping the flow.

I am kinda thinking that the plastic had something to do with it and will never be using plastic as storage again.

My fermentation wasn't very strong it never went under 1.0 for sg abd I used dry ale yeast safely us05, I used that one because the guy in the recipe said it tastes the best.

I havnt blended anything yet I just filled 500ml jars while distilling and got 7 of them from 40lbs.

The taste is bad and it really does taste like armpit I have to admit it's the cleanest drunk I've ever had with no hangover or gut rot. Fantastic alcohol but man the smell and taste is bad. It's not bitter or harsh but honestly tastes like it smells, I also aired it out for 2 days.

I have the remaining 15lbs of barley fermenting right now so I'm excited to try it again and see what happens.

[SaltyStaves]

When I drank my spirit run I had 7 jars and I drank the entire jar that was roughly 40%, no mixing or blending, I think it was numbered 3 or 4.

Thats a tails jar in my garage.

[NormandieStill]

Yeah. 30% low wines going through a second distillation will probably be well on the way to tails when it's 40% off the spout in the spirit run (less than actually as that 40% avg over 500ml).

Moonshine31: You really need to collect smaller amounts in more jars to get some granularity. Then go and read the various guides to cuts posted on the forum (there's a link to one of them at the bottom of every page in the Required Reading section). As an example, I recently ran an apple brandy spirit run. From ~28 litres @ 38% in the still (including feints from last years run) I pulled 31 jars of 400ml (some were a little over, some a little under). The final two were cloudy as, and the last clean one was at around 45%. Grain flavours tend to hide closer to the tails so you might drag things out a little further, but 40% off the still is unlikely to be very clean or drinkable. It's good that you've got another ferment running, but you really should go read a lot more while you wait for it to finish!

TLDR: Your final blend from a spirit run will generally be much higher than drinking proof. If you've run your stripping run down to 20-25% (not a bad idea for making whisky in my limited experience) then you can expect your blend to have an abv in the mid 60s.

[Moonshine31]

I'm collecting smaller amount in each jar for this run and will switch recipes to something easier next time around.

For my stripping run today I seen small black stuff coming out of the spout, am I scorching the barley? Should I turn down the temp so I don't see any black stuff during my stripping run?

On jar #5 from my last run I see white stuff floating around in the jar is that drinkable?

Finally my last two jars are cloudy, can I drink them?

[still_stirrin]

I'm collecting smaller amount in each jar for this run and will switch recipes to something easier next time around.

For my stripping run today I seen small black stuff coming out of the spout, am I scorching the barley? Should I turn down the temp so I don't see any black stuff during my stripping run?<— Running your still by “temperature”? Not the way to do it. Black stuff is more than likely from a “puke”. And that more than likely occurred from too high of HEAT INPUT/power setting (not temperature). At least until the still starts to produce, or the boil begins, keep the power input lower. Pukes happen when the wash reaches its saturation temperature too quickly and the boil begins “explosively”. You can use high power to warm the wash, but when the still head begins to heat up, slow the heat input down. And start the boil gracefully. Otherwise, it’ll puke, especially if it isn’t cleared of small solids. Small solids act as “nucleation points” for the bubbles (vapor) to collect and rise to the surface quickly. Unfermented sugars can also trigger a puke, so make sure your ferment is fully terminated.

On jar #5 from my last run I see white stuff floating around in the jar is that drinkable? <— this question has been answered many, many times. Just do a search and read. You’ll find your answer there.

Finally my last two jars are cloudy, can I drink them? <— Can you … or, should you? Taste them and see if you want to drink them. I suspect they’ll taste husky with an astringency. Not unlike sucking on some wet newsprint. But, if you want to drink them, or even blend them back with some of the rest of your collection, go ahead. Many here wouldn’t. But you CAN.

[Moonshine31]

Thank you for all the answers.

[The Booze Pipe]

Thank you for all the answers.

It sounds like your ferment and strip went ok, but you have no idea what you’re doing with cuts on the spirit run. And what is this cooler you’re talking about? If you’re storing distilled spirits in plastics that’s not good.

Honestly Moonshine31, you aren’t an Olympic high diver. This hobby is very much a “hold onto the sides of the pool, and kick” type sport.

If I were you, I would stop what you are doing and start reading more. Pickup the Amphora Society books and start there, as well as all the novice distiller material on this forum.

At that point, I suggest following a sour mash protocol like UJJSM, you’ll get a lot of product with minimal work, and you will be able to learn how to ferment, distill and make cuts. I carried a sour mash for several generations and actually made some pretty darn good quality whiskey.

It sounds like you aren’t discouraged so start reading and don’t stop

[Moonshine31]

I had a cooler that I would keep my stripping runs in before my spirit run but I didn't do that again for my second distillation. I think that's what honestly messed up my first batch a little bit.

Ujjsm will be my next one and I'm excited to try that out. I haven't starting reading about it just yet but that's going to be my next step.

I want to do a bunch of easy ones to begin with and once I find one that I like I want to make tons of it lol. Not a big of the single malt process just yet. But my second batch did turn out much better I have to say.

I've made grappa prob 5 times but this stuff is much different.

[Dougmatt]

I had a cooler that I would keep my stripping runs in before my spirit run but I didn't do that again for my second distillation. I think that's what honestly messed up my first batch a little bit.

Ujjsm will be my next one and I'm excited to try that out. I haven't starting reading about it just yet but that's going to be my next step.

I want to do a bunch of easy ones to begin with and once I find one that I like I want to make tons of it lol. Not a big of the single malt process just yet. But my second batch did turn out much better I have to say.

I've made grappa prob 5 times but this stuff is much different.

Seems like you are on a good path. I want to share how my journey went. I started out wanting to make great whiskey (bourbon mostly which is my primary year round go to drink) and rum (which I enjoy during the summer).

As I began to experiment on whiskey, I felt led by a lot of what I read here to go down the path of a “faux” whiskey. Basically a sugar wash flavored with grain (usually corn). I started with Odin’s corn flake which I thought was “good” at the time, then switched to ujssm for 8 generations which I wasn’t a fan of, then I bit the bullet with scd’s HBB and started playing with other all grains. Now I have gallons of ujssm and cornflake which I have no idea what I will do with because they can’t stand up to “the real stuff”.

Learning your still, understanding the fermentation process and learning cuts with UJ or another wash, and maybe building up a little short term drinking stock is probably a good idea, but if want you want is to make a good single malt (which takes a lot of aging time!) or a nice wheat whiskey (still takes a bit of time) then I suggest getting back to that sooner rather than later. I personally wish I would have pivoted to doing that sooner.

Just a thought for you.

[NormandieStill]

If the mashing process causes you problems you can "cheat" with Angel Yeast Yellow Label, rather than "cheating" with sugar. You're limited to one yeast (so no playing with ale yeasts), and some people have reported a Yellow Label flavour which they're not fond of, but personally I've not noticed it. So with those caveats in mind, you can take grains, grind them, mix them with warm water, and add yeast, and some time later you'll have your distillers beer. I still prefer a full mash-in for the experience, but if you're short on time and experience, and would like to get some AG whisky on oak now, while building up the experience for full AG mashes, it's a good solution.

I've got a raw / toasted barley run on oak right now, and my third and final batch of YLAY HBB (that's a mouthful!) is currently fermenting. I never went down the UJSSM path as I had already decided to play with wheat-based neutral (which turned out too taste to turn into neutral) and never looked back.

[Moonshine31]

I for sure am going to go back to this all grain whiskey and age it properly in a small oak barrel or oak chips one day, For sure not done with this recipe. My local store sells 55lbs bags so next time I buy a bag I want to do a 50lbs ferment and do the entire thing at once instead of 40lbs then 15lbs. I think I'm 150L fermentation tank will hold all of it.