Wheated bourbon

[The Booze Pipe]

Using the easy large batch method, I’m mashing in:
50# corn meal
11# malted white wheat
11# malted red wheat (both Rahr brand)
8# flaked rye
2tbls alpha amylase
40 gallons water

Just mashed in the corn and rye. Ph is 6.2 and best I could do for the temp is 165f. Hopefully that’s hot enough to let this gel and the alpha amylase work for the next 6-8 hrs.

I’m skipping the Glucoamylase as I am using 30% malted wheat. I know some people use both but I don’t see the point, unless the gluco or malted barely has something the malted wheat doesn’t.

[Bradster68]

Using the easy large batch method, I’m mashing in:
50# corn meal
11# malted white wheat
11# malted red wheat (both Rahr brand)
8# flaked rye
2tbls alpha amylase
40 gallons water

Just mashed in the corn and rye. Ph is 6.2 and best I could do for the temp is 165f. Hopefully that’s hot enough to let this gel and the alpha amylase work for the next 6-8 hrs.

I’m skipping the Glucoamylase as I am using 30% malted wheat. I know some people use both but I don’t see the point, unless the gluco or malted barely has something the malted wheat doesn’t.

Cornmeal doesn't require the high temp like cracked corn. You "might" be ok.
Most use liquid enzymes As a safety net to get max yeild. And it's cheap insurance.
Guess you'll find out if this process works for you..
And who doesn't like a wheated bourbon

[The Booze Pipe]

I did add the high temp amylase. It does a good bit of work on the corn meal. I’m starting to talk myself into adding the gluco with the wheat malt.

And for sure on the wheat whiskey I played around with a sour mash, corn and wheat, and it was the best whiskey I’ve made to date. It just needed a little spice. So I added rye this time

[The Booze Pipe]

If a mod could edit the title to “Wheated Bourbon” it’d be appreciated

[Bradster68]

I did add the high temp amylase. It does a good bit of work on the corn meal. I’m starting to talk myself into adding the gluco with the wheat malt.

And for sure on the wheat whiskey I played around with a sour mash, corn and wheat, and it was the best whiskey I’ve made to date. It just needed a little spice. So I added rye this time

I used cornmeal quite a bit, because I got some free. It definitely converts easier at a lower temp.i never used the alpha with corn meal.i only do Crack now (corn that is ) So the high temp is a must for me.
I do a wheated bourbon, and a rye bourbon.
TB makes an amazing rye bourbon from what I hear. He's never sent me a sample. Hint,hint TB. .
But iv made both and waiting on time now.
Like I said,I just use the gluco as an extra precaution.
A good consistent process is what help me the most

[The Booze Pipe]

Thanks for feedback. What is your rye recipe? You don’t see many of them on the board.

I’m not sure what the aging plan is for this whiskey, it might not go for the two years to earn the bourbon badge. So I might have to change the title to “ wheat whiskey” or something fancy like “ Wheated American single malt”

But I do plan to make a classic bourbon, and rye, to age for two or more years.

[Dougmatt]

Your recipe looks pretty close to SCD’s CROW without the toasted oats, I’m working through a batch of that now, and too early for me to comment but the white was pretty good. Not sure if you’ve seen that one?

viewtopic.php?t=72468

[The Booze Pipe]

Your recipe looks pretty close to SCD’s CROW without the toasted oats, I’m working through a batch of that now, and too early for me to comment but the white was pretty good. Not sure if you’ve seen that one?

viewtopic.php?t=72468

Yes, that’s where I launched my recipe from, using the 60/30/10 rule. I like oats in whiskey as well, but too much trouble to toast them. But I’ll do a 20 gallon batch of that sometime

[The Booze Pipe]

I’m nearing 150f where I’ll add the malts. I have 20 gallons of water in the ferment now with the corn and rye. But I’m thinking I’ll heat the next 10 gallons to about 150 so the whole thing can get a rest period before crashing temp to pitch. Maybe it’s unnecessary? Just add the malts to the volume I have now and let that rest for a couple hours ?

[Dougmatt]

Your recipe looks pretty close to SCD’s CROW without the toasted oats, I’m working through a batch of that now, and too early for me to comment but the white was pretty good. Not sure if you’ve seen that one?

viewtopic.php?t=72468

Yes, that’s where I launched my recipe from, using the 60/30/10 rule. I like oats in whiskey as well, but too much trouble to toast them. But I’ll do a 20 gallon batch of that sometime

I wondered given the similarity. Maybe scd will comment on the recipe and why he chose to add the oats and if he ran it without.

Toasting the oats I thought would be a pain…. Turned out to be pretty light effort. I’ve done un toasted oats in HBB and not and the only thing I picked up was a slightly different mouth feel. The smell of the toasted oats was pretty nice, but not sure if I can pick them out of the white product.

[Dougmatt]

I’m nearing 150f where I’ll add the malts. I have 20 gallons of water in the ferment now with the corn and rye. But I’m thinking I’ll heat the next 10 gallons to about 150 so the whole thing can get a rest period before crashing temp to pitch. Maybe it’s unnecessary? Just add the malts to the volume I have now and let that rest for a couple hours ?

You have your full corn and rye in that 20 gallons? If your goal is 40 gallons and you are 20 gallons in by the large batch method shouldn’t you have 1/2 your corn and rye in at this point?

[The Booze Pipe]

I’m nearing 150f where I’ll add the malts. I have 20 gallons of water in the ferment now with the corn and rye. But I’m thinking I’ll heat the next 10 gallons to about 150 so the whole thing can get a rest period before crashing temp to pitch. Maybe it’s unnecessary? Just add the malts to the volume I have now and let that rest for a couple hours ?

You have your full corn and rye in that 20 gallons? If your goal is 40 gallons and you are 20 gallons in by the large batch method shouldn’t you have 1/2 your corn and rye in at this point?

No I’m not too far off. Using the enzyme method on pg 4. I have two batches of water and all of the corn in. I’m only six gallons short because my keg is 13 gallons not the 15..I can safely boil 10 at a time, 12 is pushing it.

[Powder Monkey]

Let us know how it turns out. Curious if you have any previous distillations to comment on red vs white wheat since you have both in this recipe.

My seasonal experiment is a “Double Red” Bourbon utilizing red corn and red wheat that I grew last year. Mine wasn’t malted though. I have white wheat in for this year and am interested to compare. I suppose using both may get the best of both worlds.

You mentioned rye recipes. I wanted to do a 100% rye this year and did 90% raw, 6% malted rye and 4% chocolate rye malt. The white tasted incredible but I am partial to some chocolate malt in past bourbon recipes.

If you want to go down the rabbit hole further give home malting a try. I use an $80 digital countertop dehydrator and some plastic tubs and can do 10# batches. I’ve been playing with malting various grains. It opens up a whole additional avenue of experimenting with minimal risk as raw grain is cheap.

[The Booze Pipe]

Let us know how it turns out. Curious if you have any previous distillations to comment on red vs white wheat since you have both in this recipe.

My seasonal experiment is a “Double Red” Bourbon utilizing red corn and red wheat that I grew last year. Mine wasn’t malted though. I have white wheat in for this year and am interested to compare. I suppose using both may get the best of both worlds.

You mentioned rye recipes. I wanted to do a 100% rye this year and did 90% raw, 6% malted rye and 4% chocolate rye malt. The white tasted incredible but I am partial to some chocolate malt in past bourbon recipes.

If you want to go down the rabbit hole further give home malting a try. I use an $80 digital countertop dehydrator and some plastic tubs and can do 10# batches. I’ve been playing with malting various grains. It opens up a whole additional avenue of experimenting with minimal risk as raw grain is cheap.

I was going for best of both! I don’t have much on tasting notes for the wheat distillate specifically. I’m not sure what wheat I used for the sour mash, but it looked like a red wheat.

[Dougmatt]

I’m nearing 150f where I’ll add the malts. I have 20 gallons of water in the ferment now with the corn and rye. But I’m thinking I’ll heat the next 10 gallons to about 150 so the whole thing can get a rest period before crashing temp to pitch. Maybe it’s unnecessary? Just add the malts to the volume I have now and let that rest for a couple hours ?

You have your full corn and rye in that 20 gallons? If your goal is 40 gallons and you are 20 gallons in by the large batch method shouldn’t you have 1/2 your corn and rye in at this point?

No I’m not too far off. Using the enzyme method on pg 4. I have two batches of water and all of the corn in. I’m only six gallons short because my keg is 13 gallons not the 15..I can safely boil 10 at a time, 12 is pushing it.

Let us know how it goes. 4lbs per gallon at mash in is going to be thick. I see some beer brewers going that high with intent to sparge, but generally I see people here shooting for sub 3lbs (like SCD does in the enzyme bill he used which is 2.88 lbs at mash temp). Be interesting to see what your conversion efficiency ends up at given that high of grain to water ratio.

[The Booze Pipe]

Finished mashing, hit 117f ph is same at 6 with 2 gallons of backset added. I’m working on getting a gravity. But I wrapped it up and will revisit in the morning to pitch yeast.

Before mashing the wheat malt in, the corn and rye smelled pretty amazing, like desert!

SG is 1.060

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

Definitely get an s.g. reading. Time and temp are of an inverse relation, meaning the more you have of one the less you need of the other. In this process ironically, the higher the temp the longer you have before it reaches mash temp. I worry about your corn conversion. Time will tell, but if you get a lower reading or a lower volume/abv, I would look there first. The malt will for sure convert all the available starch, the question will be if you released enough starch in your first step.

Good luck, enjoy the journey of creating your own little something in this world.

[shadylane]

hrs.

I’m skipping the Glucoamylase as I am using 30% malted wheat. I know some people use both but I don’t see the point, unless the gluco or malted barely has something the malted wheat doesn’t.

With gluco the final gravity can be 1.000 or a little lower because the trioses is converted to a fermentable sugar. Without gluco to chop up the longer chain sugars, the final gravity will be above 1.000
Long story short the gluco will make the mash more fermentable.

[The Booze Pipe]

hrs.

I’m skipping the Glucoamylase as I am using 30% malted wheat. I know some people use both but I don’t see the point, unless the gluco or malted barely has something the malted wheat doesn’t.

With gluco the final gravity can be 1.000 or a little lower because the trioses is converted to a fermentable sugar. Without gluco to chop up the longer chain sugars, the final gravity will be above 1.000
Long story short the gluco will make the mash more fermentable.

I did end up adding two tablespoons of glucoamylase

[The Booze Pipe]

Definitely get an s.g. reading. Time and temp are of an inverse relation, meaning the more you have of one the less you need of the other. In this process ironically, the higher the temp the longer you have before it reaches mash temp. I worry about your corn conversion. Time will tell, but if you get a lower reading or a lower volume/abv, I would look there first. The malt will for sure convert all the available starch, the question will be if you released enough starch in your first step.

Good luck, enjoy the journey of creating your own little something in this world.

Finally got my gravity at just under 1.060. I guess it went ok then..?

[shadylane]

Finally got my gravity at just under 1.060. I guess it went ok then..?

2 pounds per gallon and 1.060 sounds good to me.

[Deplorable]

Booze, if it makes you feel any better, my average OG is about 1.065 at just under 2.2 pounds of grain per gallon of water.
Using the Gluco, you should finish at 1 or below. If it gets down to .990 you'll end up a 9% wash for the still. The bourbon I just squeezed started at 1.063 and finished at .998 or just under 11%ABV.

I've been contemplating a Corn, Rye and Wheat, but haven't actually done it other than the batches of CROW I've made. I put up a batch of CROW a few months back in an Oregon Oak Badmo, but its still a couple of years away before I get to enjoy it.

[The Booze Pipe]

Just a quick update: I figured the mash was finished fermenting as I got three consecutive SG readings of 1.002. I unwrapped it (reflectix) and found the bottom half was cold.

So I just had a new hybrid/ heat pump water heater installed, and that sucker blows cold air directly towards the fermenter.

Well whatever, if it ain’t something it’s something else. Gave it a good big stir, triple insulation, and bumped up the temp on the submersible aquarium heater. Hoping I can wake the yeast up to finish this thing dry.

I’m thinking I need a heating pad to set underneath this mashtun, about 150 watts.

Also this thing immediately took on an infection, funky and sour, I’m assuming this is lacto?

[The Booze Pipe]

Booze, if it makes you feel any better, my average OG is about 1.065 at just under 2.2 pounds of grain per gallon of water.
Using the Gluco, you should finish at 1 or below. If it gets down to .990 you'll end up a 9% wash for the still. The bourbon I just squeezed started at 1.063 and finished at .998 or just under 11%ABV.

I've been contemplating a Corn, Rye and Wheat, but haven't actually done it other than the batches of CROW I've made. I put up a batch of CROW a few months back in an Oregon Oak Badmo, but its still a couple of years away before I get to enjoy it.

Several years ago, before my forced three year break from fermenting, I made a corn and wheat sour mash. It was very good, but just needed a little spice. So that’s where I got the idea for the Wheated bourbon.

I’m a solid two pounds per gallon on this wash, but it looks like it wouldn’t hurt to pump that up.

[The Booze Pipe]

I’ve been trying to squeeze these grains, and SON OF BITCH this mash does not want to squeeze. I’m using a paint bag, and the old ass press. It worked for me in the past with other grains, I think rice. Might be time to get a mop wringer.

[Bradster68]

I’ve been trying to squeeze these grains, and SON OF BITCH this mash does not want to squeeze. I’m using a paint bag, and the old ass press. It worked for me in the past with other grains, I think rice. Might be time to get a mop wringer.

I got a mop ringer for Christmas,I just squeezed 35 gallon of HBB yesterday,makes it alot easier imo. I also didn't filter this time,just squeezed. The strip went well no scorching,so no more filter for me.

[venkman]

The mop wringer was a game changer for me. I can squeeze 40 gallons in about 45mins. I just give it a week or so to clear after squeezing and it goes in for the stripping run pretty clear already.

[The Booze Pipe]

The mop wringer was a game changer for me. I can squeeze 40 gallons in about 45mins. I just give it a week or so to clear after squeezing and it goes in for the stripping run pretty clear already.

The mop wringer was a game changer for me. I can squeeze 40 gallons in about 45mins. I just give it a week or so to clear after squeezing and it goes in for the stripping run pretty clear already.

Sounds like a good deal. Wonder if that thing would sit on a five gallon bucket, or six gallon brew bucket?

[FL Brewer]

I use a fruit press, I can press a 20 lb grain/10 gal water fermented mash in 15-20 minutes, that batch just fits in a 5 gal paint strainer bag. It was expensive (almost $500), but I also use it for squeezing fruit for wine.

The mop wringer solution probably works almost as well and is certainly much cheaper. Bottom line is that if you're going to squeeze any significant amount of grain, some sort of mechanical help will make the job much easier. I couldn't do my AG whiskey without the press.

[rubberduck71]

The mop wringer was a game changer for me. I can squeeze 40 gallons in about 45mins. I just give it a week or so to clear after squeezing and it goes in for the stripping run pretty clear already.

I'm out of "spare space" in my brewing lab. I have consigned myself to the fact that I'll be leaving a certain volume of what would be "capture-able" wash in my grains.

That said... doing sugarheads is part of my standard protocol now, so I figure giving up some of that wash stuck in the grains is a sacrifice I can live with since I've gotten 2 runs out of each batch of grain!