2" to 3" boiler adaptor

[bobpratl]

I have a 2" x 42" CCVM column and would like to take advantage of a 3" column, but my boiler has a 2" Tri Clamp coupler. What would I gain/loose if I place a 2" to 3" adaptor, on the boiler, have the 42" column changed to 3" and keep the reflex section at 2 inch? Would the adaptor cause too much restriction?

[Salt Must Flow]

2" x 3" Tri-Clamp adapter shouldn't be an issue.

2" should ideally be at least 40". 3" should ideally be at least 60".

I'm not sure whether your 2" reflux condenser would be able to handle the increased power of a 3" or not. With my 3" VM, I typically operate at 2750W-3000W. If you can operate at full reflux at higher power than that with your 2" reflux condenser then it should work just fine.

Below is how I made my 3" VM. I used a 2" Instrument Tee though my column and reflux condenser is 3".

FINAL VM 2 in Tee.jpg

[OtisT]

Hi Bob

The 2” section at the base of your column should not be a problem on its own. As Salt mentioned above, you should be running the 3” column at a higher power level than you did your 2” column. I would suggest that whatever screen you use to hold up the packing be placed at the base of the 3” section, not in the 2” section, to minimize the chance of flooding that can start at the bottom of your column from a bottleneck there. Some 2” to 3” adapters are flat (vs conical or bowl) and means you may want to add a small spacer between the adapter and screen, so your screen can be open to a 3” vapor path above and below.

That was hard to put in words. If it does not make sense let me know and I’ll draw a picture.

[MooseMan]

I currently have a 2.5" column and use a 2.5" - 2" conical reducer to mate if to the keg top. It doesn't appear to cause me issues at all.

But if you're going to a 3" column, 42" length is going to be a much bigger concern than a slightly narrow opening at the base.

If I was going bigger diameter column (Which I wouldn't on a keg) then I'd want 60" plus and 6kw.

[Deplorable]

I currently have a 2.5" column and use a 2.5" - 2" conical reducer to mate if to the keg top. It doesn't appear to cause me issues at all.

But if you're going to a 3" column, 42" length is going to be a much bigger concern than a slightly narrow opening at the base.

If I was going bigger diameter column (Which I wouldn't on a keg) then I'd want 60" plus and 6kw.

Why do you think a 3x60 inch packed column would be too much for a keg boiler?

[MooseMan]

Not necessary too much, but if I was going for the output improvement that a column that size would provide, I'd want a bigger boiler to hold a larger starting volume.

[drmiller100]

Not necessary too much, but if I was going for the output improvement that a column that size would provide, I'd want a bigger boiler to hold a larger starting volume.

How you feel and what will work are different things.

3 inch column on a keg is pretty normal as is smaller columns.

[NormandieStill]

Not necessary too much, but if I was going for the output improvement that a column that size would provide, I'd want a bigger boiler to hold a larger starting volume.

How you feel and what will work are different things.

3 inch column on a keg is pretty normal as is smaller columns.

I think the point is that if you were OK doing (let's say) a 6 hour run on your old column, then by sticking on a 3" column you could be pulling twice the product for the same time. Either you're done in 3 hours now, or you can pull twice as much product in those 6 hours.

Personally, I would love to get my neutral batches done in half the time, but at around 240€ for the spool tubes + the packing needed to fill 1.5m of column, that's an upgrade that's a little too pricey for my tastes!

[MooseMan]

I do understand the point you're making gents.

My approach to this is though, if you are running a column capable of pretty high output volume of c. 95% then it makes sense to have a boiler that can supply it with a worthwhile starting volume.

I don't know what a 3" 1.5m column could put out in neutral but is 3l/hr reasonable or is it higher?
Charged at 40% ABV, a full keg will have 50l total charge at the very maximum, so 20l of ethanol max.
Loss of product to heads/tails will be what, 30% of that?

It doesn't seem like an efficient situation to me.

[Salt Must Flow]

I have a relatively large stripping boiler and a 15.5 gal keg boiler I use for spirit runs with my 3" VM. I've operated at 2750W and take-off at 3.25 LPH at 95+ % ABV. I've also operated at 3300W and had a take-off rate of 3.5 LPH at 95+ % ABV. I can't tell any difference between the product from either settings.

I don't think I ever figured out what % the heads & tails cut was, but that has nothing to do with the diameter of the column. It should be the similar regardless of the diameter of the column. As long as the column is doing its job, the cuts should be relatively similar assuming all fermentation variables are similar.

[EricTheRed]

I run a 30L boiler with a
* 2" bulkhead adaptor
* to a 2" by 3" adaptor
* to a 70cm 3" column (copper scrubby packed) to a
* 3" by 2" adaptor to a
* 90cm 2" column (copper scrubby packed) to a
* 2" x 20cm shotgun RC, 90° bends to a 2" 60cm shotgun PC

Running at 2KW i get 2.5 to 3L per hour at 93 - 94% (temp corrected)
(That is fine for my purposes - not trying for azeo)

So, short answer - it should not be a problem

[Saltbush Bill]

Simple answer is, going from 2inch to 3 inch won't cause any problem what so ever.

[bobpratl]

Thanks all for your input.

[Yummyrum]

Simple answer is, going from 2inch to 3 inch won't cause any problem what so ever.

What he said .

[bobpratl]

Another question, will the 2" to 3" column adaptor require more boiler wattage, because of the 2" restriction to a 3" column?
The boiler is 10 gallons with a 2500 watt 220V element using a SCR controller.

[Yummyrum]

Another question, will the 2" to 3" column adaptor require more boiler wattage, because of the 2" restriction to a 3" column?
The boiler is 10 gallons with a 2500 watt 220V element using a SCR controller.

Man you are totally sweating it . You can stick 10kw or more into a keg with a 2” outlet and it won’t worry it a shit.

All my keg boilers have 2” outlets . I’ve run my 4” column on probably in-excess of 10kw on gas and it’s totally fine .
.

The 2-3” adaptor makes no difference . …. In the real world .
OK if you were going to restrict down to maybe 1/4” , sure , at 2kw , you might be starting to build up a bit of back pressure . …. But you are not .

You are going through a big fat 2” . And it’s only about 1” long before …… arrrrrrh …. It expands into 3” . Its vapour happy days

IMG_9760.jpeg

IMG_9759.jpeg

[bobpratl]

All my keg boilers have 2” outlets . I’ve run my 4” column on probably in-excess of 10kw on gas and it’s totally fine .
The 2-3” adaptor makes no difference . …. In the real world .

Man, that is quite the still. Thanks again for your expertise in answering my questions.

[Steve Broady]

You are going through a big fat 2” . And it’s only about 1” long before …… arrrrrrh …. It expands into 3” . Its vapour happy days

The way I see it, what’s the difference in free area between an open 2” neck and a packed 3” or 4” column? I don’t know how much space a given packing should take up, the math is easy. A 4” column packed such that it is 75% obstructed has the same open cross sectional area as a 2” opening.

In other words, I don’t think the neck of the bottle is the bottleneck in the system.

[Alzahra888]

I run a 30L boiler with a
* 2" bulkhead adaptor
* to a 2" by 3" adaptor
* to a 70cm 3" column (copper scrubby packed) to a
* 3" by 2" adaptor to a
* 90cm 2" column (copper scrubby packed) to a
* 2" x 20cm shotgun RC, 90° bends to a 2" 60cm shotgun PC

Running at 2KW i get 2.5 to 3L per hour at 93 - 94% (temp corrected)
(That is fine for my purposes - not trying for azeo)

So, short answer - it should not be a problem

Switching up to 3”x73” as well and was wondering about the tee. If i understand you EricTheRed, it’s not impossible for my existing 2” tee and 2” RC a to knock down what a 3” below can send at it?

My RC is a dimroth from 3/8” stainless flex tubing. I know from jacking up the fire and water flow that it can handle pretty well the beginning of a puke coming up the 2” column sending a gushing stream of distillate down the leibig long before it exits the RC.

This post is really asking if a 3” column needs a 3” RC since a 2” tee seems totally acceptable.

Obviously I like the idea of not having to get a 3” tee and at most would need 2 2”-3” reducers to go back up to a 3” dimroth which I’d have to build.

[Alzahra888]

Another question, will the 2" to 3" column adaptor require more boiler wattage, because of the 2" restriction to a 3" column?
The boiler is 10 gallons with a 2500 watt 220V element using a SCR controller.

Man you are totally sweating it . You can stick 10kw or more into a keg with a 2” outlet and it won’t worry it a shit.

All my keg boilers have 2” outlets . I’ve run my 4” column on probably in-excess of 10kw on gas and it’s totally fine .
.

The 2-3” adaptor makes no difference . …. In the real world .
OK if you were going to restrict down to maybe 1/4” , sure , at 2kw , you might be starting to build up a bit of back pressure . …. But you are not .

You are going through a big fat 2” . And it’s only about 1” long before …… arrrrrrh …. It expands into 3” . Its vapour happy days



IMG_9760.jpegIMG_9759.jpeg

Yummyrum, that’s beautiful. Is that a 3” RC above the 4” column?

[Yummyrum]

Another question, will the 2" to 3" column adaptor require more boiler wattage, because of the 2" restriction to a 3" column?
The boiler is 10 gallons with a 2500 watt 220V element using a SCR controller.

Man you are totally sweating it . You can stick 10kw or more into a keg with a 2” outlet and it won’t worry it a shit.

All my keg boilers have 2” outlets . I’ve run my 4” column on probably in-excess of 10kw on gas and it’s totally fine .
.

The 2-3” adaptor makes no difference . …. In the real world .
OK if you were going to restrict down to maybe 1/4” , sure , at 2kw , you might be starting to build up a bit of back pressure . …. But you are not .

You are going through a big fat 2” . And it’s only about 1” long before …… arrrrrrh …. It expands into 3” . Its vapour happy days



IMG_9760.jpegIMG_9759.jpeg

Yummyrum, that’s beautiful. Is that a 3” RC above the 4” column?

Thanks Alzahra888 …… my wife is not so appreciative

It is the 4” defleg and the 2.5” PC from my 4” plated still . The defleg on it’s own couldn’t cope so I used the PC and flipped it up . That then fully condensed everything in combination .
Not sure if you can see in pic but it is a VM still . The coolant is all connected in series . The output from the 1.5” shotty PC goes to the 4” Defleg , then up to the inverted 2.5” shotty …….then goes back to the 3000l tank .

IMG_3757.jpeg

I intend to make a dedicated RC one day . This combo worked OK but it is stupid waste of height . Now I’m in my new place and shed and have nosey neighbours so no more outdoor distilling .

[Alzahra888]

It is the 4” defleg and the 2.5” PC from my 4” plated still . The defleg on it’s own couldn’t cope so I used the PC and flipped it up . That then fully condensed everything in combination .
Not sure if you can see in pic but it is a VM still . The coolant is all connected in series . The output from the 1.5” shotty PC goes to the 4” Defleg , then up to the inverted 2.5” shotty …….then goes back to the 3000l tank .

IMG_3757.jpeg
I intend to make a dedicated RC one day . This combo worked OK but it is stupid waste of height . Now I’m in my new place and shed and have nosey neighbours so no more outdoor distilling .

And the s turn in there, what’s its function, if i might ask?

[Yummyrum]

And the s turn in there, what’s its function, if i might ask?

Has no function .
It is simply done that way because I never fitted a tri-clamp to the 4-2 reducer when I built the plated still .

IMG_3760.jpeg

So the only way to combine the two condensers when I switches it to a VM head was to flip it at the junction of the two 90°.

IMG_3759.jpeg

IMG_3758.jpeg