Chlorine removal in hot water?

[Oystercracker123]

I have a question about removing or driving off chlorine from water. Specifically hot water directly from the water heater supply. I know the recommended procedure is to either bubble water with an air stone overnight, or boil the water, or reverse osmosis. What I’m considering is running a nsf water rated hose directly off a tankless water heater, then through a pressure regulator, then an inline activated charcoal RV water filter and am wondering about basically the solubility of chlorine in water. All whole home water filtration that I know of is done on water before it is heated as far as I’m aware. Is there a reason for this other than economics? Is the chlorine “harder” for the charcoal filter to remove at temps like you may see out of a water heater (approx 140f/60c)? Has anyone run a similar approach and did it work?

[MooseMan]

For your ferment water?

[Oystercracker123]

Yes ferment water for ylay. I’m trying to limit or eliminate chlorine while possibly simultaneously getting a pasteurization of the grain. I may be able to go higher than 140f depending on the heater model (some allow exceeding the 140f max through programming).

[Salt Must Flow]

How large will your average fermentation be?

Those RV filters or similar inline carbon filter are small and will extinguish relatively quickly in comparison to using Carbon Block Filters in a 10" housing. That will remove any color, odor and chemicals from the water. If you shop around you may find them for a lower price.

In a perfect world I'd have a housing with a sediment filter then two housings each with a carbon block filter. Each canister can be directly connected to each other using threaded plastic nipples. You would need a flow restricter to maintain approx 7 GPH flow rate. From my searches, by the time I bought the parts to build a 3 stage carbon filter, I might as well just buy a RO unit. With just a couple of extra fittings, you could make bypass to bypass the RO membrane just to make carbon filtered water. You would have the option to make RO water or just carbon filtered water.

Carbon filters have a recommended temperature range. Once you go above the recommended temp, the effectiveness starts to drop so there's no point in trying to carbon filter hot water in my opinion.

If your fermentations are relatively small and you used filtered water, you don't need to be restricted to using water from a hot water heater. You could just heat the water in a kettle whether over flame or with an electric heating element.

[Salt Must Flow]

I built a wood stand and on top of it I placed my water reservoir to hold filtered water. I installed a bottom drain down low through the side of the reservoir for easy draining. I installed a mini float valve at the top of the reservoir. I connected my water filter to the float valve. I just turn the filter on and walk away. Over time the reservoir gets full and the float valve shuts the filter down automatically.

I have a keg that I use as a kettle. I cut a hole in the top that fits a frying pan lid perfectly. I installed a 2" Tri-Clamp bulkhead fitting down low on the side for the option of using an electric heating element. I also installed a drain fitting through the side down low for easy draining. It won't fully drain unless I tip the keg a bit. I didn't install the bottom drain on the very bottom because I wanted to reserve the option to heat over flame. My kettle is also on a stand with swivel casters so I can roll it over to the reservoir, fill it up and move it wherever I want. Once the water is heated up, I roll my fermenter over to it, open the valve and dump the hot water directly into the fermenter. Another option is to use a cheap pond pump to pump water from the reservoir over to the kettle.

[JustinNZ]

Does the chlorine blow off during fermentation?

[Salt Must Flow]

Does the chlorine blow off during fermentation?

Perhaps eventually, while at the same time the chlorine can inhibit fermentation by attacking the yeast. The goal is to remove chlorine so the fermentation is healthy. Others set the water out in the sun. I hear there's tablets that can be added to chlorinated water.

[Oystercracker123]

Salt, I was not aware of the low flow rates to get sufficient contact time in the charcoal. Thats good to know. This is more of a one off quick and dirty or one time use deal rather than a SOP trying a no-kettle approach. The other thing I considered is running the hot water through the filter into the grain for whatever pasteurization I can get, followed by bubbling with an air stone until at pitching temp. I have read that as temp increases chlorine becomes less soluble, and should drive off more quickly. I’m just unsure as to if enough will dissipate in the anticipated timeframe.

[Demy]

If I'm not mistaken, potassium metabisulfite is used to somehow neutralize chlorine (in some countries you commercially call them "campdem tablets").

[Salt Must Flow]

Salt, I was not aware of the low flow rates to get sufficient contact time in the charcoal. Thats good to know. This is more of a one off quick and dirty or one time use deal rather than a SOP trying a no-kettle approach. The other thing I considered is running the hot water through the filter into the grain for whatever pasteurization I can get, followed by bubbling with an air stone until at pitching temp. I have read that as temp increases chlorine becomes less soluble, and should drive off more quickly. I’m just unsure as to if enough will dissipate in the anticipated timeframe.

I Googled it and found this quote:

boiling water for 15 minutes will remove all of the chlorine form tap water

I don't think a hot water heater's normal operation temp is capable of reaching gelatinization temperature to effectively mash grains. Water from a hot water heater (already hot) would reduce the time it would take to reach gelatinization temperature though.

[Oystercracker123]

Salt, you’re right, I will not be able to gelatinize or mash, I’m not trying to. Using yellow label. As to the normal operating range, you’re also correct. The last two models I installed included the directions to exceed the normal safety cap of 140f, I don’t recall if you can get to 160 or 180, but I know it’s a bit past the normal operating window.

[NZChris]

If I'm not mistaken, potassium metabisulfite is used to somehow neutralize chlorine (in some countries you commercially call them "campdem tablets").

And then you have the problem of getting rid of the stink from the potassium metabisulfite

[Oystercracker123]

It’s a little beyond this question, but I have recirculated water in the past through an on demand camping shower style water heater off of Amazon and seen temps exceeding 170. If there is a max temp limit on that unit, I haven’t found it yet. It was for a kids pool on a camping trip, and worked great. It won’t run off a centrifugal pump though, I needed a diaphragm pump to keep the pressure sensor happy.

[NZChris]

UV is used to break down chloramine.

[harold01]

One gram of ascorbic acid will neutralize 1 milligram per liter of chlorine per 100 gallons of water

[JustinNZ]

If the chlorine isn’t inhibiting my yeast (it’s not as far as I can tell), and blows off during fermentation and boils off during distillation, then I don’t have a chlorine issue?

[Oystercracker123]

Good to know on the vitamin c/ascotbic acid, I’ll give that a shot.

[MooseMan]

Yes ferment water for ylay. I’m trying to limit or eliminate chlorine while possibly simultaneously getting a pasteurization of the grain. I may be able to go higher than 140f depending on the heater model (some allow exceeding the 140f max through programming).

Sorry for the delayed reply.

Unless you know for sure that chlorine/chloramine is causing you fermentation issues, I wouldn't worry about it at all.

Back in my lager brewing days I became obsessed that it was making the lager less "Crisp" and did all sorts of experiments (Aerated, left in vessels to air for 48hrs, sulphated, acidified, brought to a boil, held at mid 70's C for an hour) and in blind taste tests, no one, including me, could tell any difference to straight tap water.

I use YLAY and when I set up a ferment I just run my hot condenser water straight onto the flaked grain in the fermenter, also adding one gallon per ten, of backset.

[Oystercracker123]

Fantastic news moose, as often occurs I was probably overthinking it rather than doing the try and see what happens approach.

[MooseMan]

Fantastic news moose, as often occurs I was probably overthinking it rather than doing the try and see what happens approach.

Haha you're not the only one!
As I've gotten older, I seem to do it less and less...
Wisdom?
More like F#ck it, just give it a go!

[Reefer1]

Ha haa, that sounds like my attitude as i have gotten older moose,
Although back in my wine making days i used capden tabs to kill yeast before bottling.!! So no exploding bottles.

[bilgriss]

Chlorinated water won't usually inhibit yeast. Fermentation reactions can produce chlorophenols which produce objectionable flavors though.

Boiling for 10-15 minutes gets rid of the chlorine. Campden tablets get rid of the chlorine. Letting the water sit open overnight will get rid of chlorine, in a small amount of water. You may need to circulate it for a larger amount.

I have sometimes used chlorinated water straight from the tap and with my own town water, I haven't noticed anything. Some municipalities use larger quantities though, and have different makeup, so YMMV.

[NormandieStill]

I find that the chlorine content varies throughout the year. We have a good local source which means treatment remains constant throughout the year. But at my parents, whose water primarily comes from an open reservoir, it can smell like a swimming pool when you run a bath if the algae are growing.

[Reefer1]

As Normandie. Says, my tap water chlorine levels do change through the seasons, if it smells chloriney out of the tap i would just airate it with a small aquarium air pump for a few hours, it will evaporate and slight warm helps, if its just slight smell just toss it between a couple of buckets back and forth works for me,
Again, i wouldnt use any thing like Campden tabs that stuff is for sterilizing wine it will kill yeast in the fermenter.

[bilgriss]

Campden tablets are safe if you give them time to air out. The most common usage is to kill wild yeast etc. before introducing your own more predictable yeast for fermentation. But they introduce sulfites into the ferment, and while you are giving them time to become inactive, you'd be dechlorinating the water just letting it sit anyway.

[Homebrewer11777]

Prior two posts are really wrong on Campden. Campden is very safe and easy to use. 1 tablet to treat 20 gallons of water. I brew with city water and use Campden tablet for every brew whether brewing beer or wash. It absolutely does not harm yeast at this concentration. Yeast killing concentrations for wine sterilization on other hand are 1 tablet per gallon.

Aeration and boiling can be used to remove chlorine but are slow and will not remove chloramines. Carbon filtration is also slow but if filtered slowly enough can remove chlorine and chloramines. Chloramines are formed when ammonia is added to chlorinated water and are increasingly used for disinfection in municipal water due to increased stability.

Chemical treatment with metabisulfite (Campden) or ascorbic acid is very fast, almost instant, and removes both chlorine and chloramines. Campden tablets are cheap (about $0.05 per tablet) and convenient as no need to get out a scale to figure out dose.

I'm not all that sensitive to chlorine and don't really ever notice smell of chlorine in my water. If I'm not detecting it why worry about it? Issue is that chlorine at even very low levels will combine with compounds found in the mash to form chlorophenols which are perceptible as off (medicinal, Band-Aid-like, plastic-like, mouthwash, antiseptic, or vinyl flavor and aroma) flavors at parts per billion concentrations (Bru'n water says detectable at 10, highly objectionable at 30 ppb, about 100-fold lower concentrations than typical chlorine/chloramine concentration in treated drinking water).

For OP I am not sure how best to deal with your situation. Once the water hits the grain I believe too late to do anything about the chlorophenols. So I would need to find a way to treat the water before it gets to the grain. I am skeptical that carbon filtration will work at flow rate you are thinking to use (to achieve pasteurization...I'm afraid to slow you will never reach target temp). You could fill your mash tun with hot water, treat it, and then add the grain. Or perhaps collect your brewing water in some sort of tank, treat it and then run it through your hot water heater.

[Reefer1]

interesting comments Homebrewer, Re campden tabs.
I kept a coral reef aquarium for 20+ years RO was the prefered method with pre and post membrane carbon filtration, so generally i use 50% to and 50% tap my ro tank only holds 2.5 gals so ideal for 5 gals wash/mash also the 50% tapwater keeps some mineral in the water.
Hey, i got no evidence but i go with my logic, and ihave had the odd ferment stall usually down to lack of neutrient ot low ph,
Its worth contacting the local water authourity for a report i found my tap water had a high level of iron/ phospate due to ground pipes, being cast iron.
Do's any of these chemicals a ffect our brews hard to know.

[Homebrewer11777]

I think beer brewers tend to be a lot more interested in their water due to fact that just about everything that is in the water ends up in the final product. Nothing gets left in the boiler and final product at 5% ABV is 95% water...Water chemistry especially the six key ions and cations impacts the mash efficiency, flocculation in the kettle and performance of the yeast. In the end hit has a huge impact on flavor of the product and even stability. This understanding has evolved at homebrewing level of past 20-30 years,,,when I first tried homebrewing the mantra was if your water tastes good enough to drink it will make good beer. Now lots of brewers start with RO water and then re-mineralize to exact target measuring out brewing salts with gram scale and acid additions with micro pipette.

Chlorine and Chloramine are a big concern. Other minerals can also be a problem...especially iron. Luck for me I have good tasting very soft tap water with no objectionable ions. I carbon filter with inline RV filter, treat it with Campden, then add gypsum, epsom and calcium chloride according to recipe. For beer the recipe will be calculated to the gram for salt and acid additions in the mash, sparge and kettle. For distilling washes my recipe is not exact but will usually add a couple teaspoons of gypsum, a tsp of calcium chloride and a pinch of epsom to make sure any minerals needed for conversion efficiency or yeast health are on board.

[Reefer1]

Good info that homebrewer the only beer i brewed many years back was out of a can and it was crap so i started hedgerow wine brewing, just used tap water, som good info here for the OP.
Nice one