Goop?

[Maverick1988]

Hey,

In a previous post I posted how it was my first ever stripping run and I found it quite helpful to resolve a few minor issues. So I figured I might try one more.

On my first run I did
40L of water
2lbs Malted Barley
15lbs Crushed corn/cornmeal
8lbs wheat

Last minute in an attempt to bring up the ABV I added 2lbs of corn sugar into the wash.

after I fixed a few electrical issues, it distilled well. I ended up with about 5-6L ish after my stripping run. But since that isn't enough to do a spirit run on my 50L still. I decided to make more, do another stripping run and hopefully make enough to mix it all and do my first ever spirit run.

This time I heated up about 40-45L of water and I upped the recipe by a 3rd. In hopes that I would increase the yield at the end but keep the same flavors
3lbs of malted barley
20lbs of Crushed Corn/cornmeal
12lbs of wheat

Just for consistency sake I figured I'd also add Corn sugar again because it seemed to help last time.

However, stupidly instead of dissolving it into the hot water and then adding the brewbag, I mixed all the gains into the brewbag with the corn sugar. and poured the hot water in over it.

I obviously stirred it multiple times, but I found after a few hours the corn sugar had melted into the grains and the gains soaked up basically all the water. of my 45L, I think I might have had 8-10L of actual wash, the mash had soaked up everything else.

So, I sparged and sparged and sparged using a 1L kettle for hours. It seemed to work, I ended up with about 58L of wash and I honestly think I could have kept going.

What I found interesting is that a lot of what came out of the sparging through the brew bag was a thick white/creamy goop which I assumed was starch and sugar from the grains, mixed with melted corn sugar.

I checked the gravity it was fine and put in the yeast just like before, and when I put on the lids and air locks they started to bubble within an hour and 4 days later, it's still bubbling away. So I know there is alcohol in there.

However, when I look on the side of my buckets. Last time it was 90%-95% liquid and you could see maybe 5%-10% goopy or what I assumed was yeast on the bottom.

This time I can see the liquid on the top and I can see where the "goop line" is, but it's like 70% goopy.

It's still bubbling so I think I still had a few more days until it's done, but if that goop doesn't settle to the bottom... what do I do? distill the goop? or is there some way to fix it?

[SugarPlumFairy]

You've got a gooey mash due to mixing corn sugar with the grains upfront. Despite that, fermentation's underway. The goop you're seeing is likely starch and sugar. Let it ferment completely, then settle. If the goop persists, try cold crashing or a fining agent. Once settled, proceed with distillation. Keep an eye on it.

[Maverick1988]

You've got a gooey mash due to mixing corn sugar with the grains upfront. Despite that, fermentation's underway. The goop you're seeing is likely starch and sugar. Let it ferment completely, then settle. If the goop persists, try cold crashing or a fining agent. Once settled, proceed with distillation. Keep an eye on it.

Thanks, I've been keeping an eye on it, the "goop" went from about 70% down to about 30%. I'm hoping it'll keep going. It's still bubbling away.

It's interesting, I have two 25L buckets and a 20L bucket. the 20L bucket is white so I can't see in, but the 25L buckets are sort of clear, same recipe but one the liquid on top is a light yellow and had a bit less "goop" the other is more dark/browny and had more "goop".

It's very interesting.

[subbrew]

Most of the goop/yogurt is starch. In the recipe you do not have near enough malt to have converted most of other grain. You only have enough malt to convert at most 15 lb of other grain so you have another 17 lb of unconverted grain/starch.

If you are going to use a low malt ratio you either need to add enzymes or use yellow label yeast.

2.5 lb of grain per gal of water is about as thick a ratio as you should ever go. Your last recipe had almost 3 lb per gallon.

[Maverick1988]

Most of the goop/yogurt is starch. In the recipe you do not have near enough malt to have converted most of other grain. You only have enough malt to convert at most 15 lb of other grain so you have another 17 lb of unconverted grain/starch.

If you are going to use a low malt ratio you either need to add enzymes or use yellow label yeast.

2.5 lb of grain per gal of water is about as thick a ratio as you should ever go. Your last recipe had almost 3 lb per gallon.

Oh! I never even thought about that. Maybe I'll add some Enzymes. I was using redstar yeast. Last time it worked really well. So I figured this time, more starch and sugar would work better (Which is why I did the same recipe but added a 3rd of each.

It's defiantly working because it's still bubbling away. once it stops I'll check the gravity.

The plan is hopefully to make enough that after the stripping run, I can mix the two (Keep a bit of wash to make sure it goes over the element in my still and I can do my first spirit run

I know obviously don't put the yeast in the distiller but what about the "Goop/yogurt"?

I watched a moonshine video where it was thick like that and they put it all in their still. But I'd think it would burn

[subbrew]

I know obviously don't put the yeast in the distiller but what about the "Goop/yogurt"?

I watched a moonshine video where it was thick like that and they put it all in their still. But I'd think it would burn

You want to rack the liquid off the goop. If it is in the pot there is a good chance of scorch unless you distilling with steam.

[Maverick1988]

I know obviously don't put the yeast in the distiller but what about the "Goop/yogurt"?

I watched a moonshine video where it was thick like that and they put it all in their still. But I'd think it would burn

You want to rack the liquid off the goop. If it is in the pot there is a good chance of scorch unless you distilling with steam.

I have no idea what "Rack the liquid off the goop" means... like maybe run it through a cheese cloth or something?

It's a 50L North Stills pot still with a 1750 bar element in the bottom

[SW_Shiner]

I know obviously don't put the yeast in the distiller but what about the "Goop/yogurt"?

I watched a moonshine video where it was thick like that and they put it all in their still. But I'd think it would burn

You want to rack the liquid off the goop. If it is in the pot there is a good chance of scorch unless you distilling with steam.

I have no idea what "Rack the liquid off the goop" means... like maybe run it through a cheese cloth or something?

It's a 50L North Stills pot still with a 1750 bar element in the bottom

Racking, is letting everything settle, then siphoning off the clear wash sitting on top of the lees.

[SugarPlumFairy]

You've got a gooey mash due to mixing corn sugar with the grains upfront. Despite that, fermentation's underway. The goop you're seeing is likely starch and sugar. Let it ferment completely, then settle. If the goop persists, try cold crashing or a fining agent. Once settled, proceed with distillation. Keep an eye on it.

Thanks, I've been keeping an eye on it, the "goop" went from about 70% down to about 30%. I'm hoping it'll keep going. It's still bubbling away.

It's interesting, I have two 25L buckets and a 20L bucket. the 20L bucket is white so I can't see in, but the 25L buckets are sort of clear, same recipe but one the liquid on top is a light yellow and had a bit less "goop" the other is more dark/browny and had more "goop".

It's very interesting.

Could be due to temperature differences or slight variations in ingredients. To reduce "goop," try maintaining a consistent temperature and stir occasionally. Good luck!

[quadra]

Sugarplum... you should read what subbrew is posting and then go learn about starch conversion.
Maverick, you really dont want to run that through your still..
You guys could save a lot of time, money and mess with a little reading!

[jonnys_spirit]

If you have a 50l still you will need to ferment almost 150-200l @ about 2# grain per gallon. If you’re using corn read up on gelatinizing it before adding malts or enzymes and the proper temperatures.

Read up on the enzymes. There’s a couple different ones for the different stages of gelatinize/mash/ferment.

Strip each of the three to four stripping runs down to 25-30%abv total abv, not abv off the spout. That should be about 15-17 liters of low wines @ 25-30%abv each strip. Three to four of those will get you about a full spirit run charge which after cuts should yield approximately 2.5-3 gallons of about 120proof hearts. Give or take.

At the end of the day the grains make the alcohol, not the water. You need the water to convert the starchy grains into sugars and for the ferment.

Then we work hard at removing the water.

Lots of good recipes along with valuable input from many other folks in the tried and true recipe section. Read through them and try a couple you might like.

Sugar isn’t a bad word and it does ferment into alcohol but it does dilute flavor. Adding sugar to an all grain is analogous to adding vodka to your whiskey.

How many drops of urine do I need to put in your coffee before you wouldn’t drink it? That’s how many approach their AG spirits and I can agree with that. On the other hand I just might have squeezed the dropper once. At least to try it. Maybe twice…

Sugar is fine for many things and sometimes you want to stretch a certain thing so you get creative.

Corn is cheaper than sugar though - here anyway…

Interested to see what your finished gravity turns out to be..

It should be around 1.000 but if you have unconverted starches it’ll be a bit higher. Maybe 1.015-1.030 depending. The corn probably didn’t fully convert if it wasn’t thoroughly gelatinized and depending on your mash temps maybe the malt too…

Best of luck and happy fathers day weekend if you’re a dad or have one around to celebrate with.

Cheers,
jonny

[Dougmatt]

Adding sugar to an all grain is analogous to adding vodka to your whiskey.

How many drops of urine do I need to put in your coffee before you wouldn’t drink it? That’s how many approach their AG spirits and I can agree with that. On the other hand I just might have squeezed the dropper once. At least to try it. Maybe twice…

[bilgriss]

A lot of good advice already here in response to your descriptions, but I think from your responses you could use some more reading and understanding before it's going to stick and make good sense. You'll need to be careful to finish the current process. If you have access to some gluco-amylase, it might help during ferment to convert a little more of the tons of starches you have here. Give it time to finish. Give it time to settle. Rack carefully and when you run it heat very slowly so not to scorch. I think your yield will be fairly low.

I guess I'd recommend going to the tried and true section, and pick a recipe with a clear procedure for processing corn in conjunction with other grains. Follow it carefully and get a feel for what works. Once it clicks, you could try again with your own recipe but following a process that makes sense, focusing on something repeatable that works. In the meantime, do some more reading. Below this post, there's a "required reading" section. Go through it all until it all makes sense while you are reading it. There's some really excellent information there which will provide context for what's going on.

Good luck!

[Maverick1988]

If you have a 50l still you will need to ferment almost 150-200l @ about 2# grain per gallon. If you’re using corn read up on gelatinizing it before adding malts or enzymes and the proper temperatures.

Read up on the enzymes. There’s a couple different ones for the different stages of gelatinize/mash/ferment.

Strip each of the three to four stripping runs down to 25-30%abv total abv, not abv off the spout. That should be about 15-17 liters of low wines @ 25-30%abv each strip. Three to four of those will get you about a full spirit run charge which after cuts should yield approximately 2.5-3 gallons of about 120proof hearts. Give or take.

At the end of the day the grains make the alcohol, not the water. You need the water to convert the starchy grains into sugars and for the ferment.

Then we work hard at removing the water.

Lots of good recipes along with valuable input from many other folks in the tried and true recipe section. Read through them and try a couple you might like.

Sugar isn’t a bad word and it does ferment into alcohol but it does dilute flavor. Adding sugar to an all grain is analogous to adding vodka to your whiskey.

How many drops of urine do I need to put in your coffee before you wouldn’t drink it? That’s how many approach their AG spirits and I can agree with that. On the other hand I just might have squeezed the dropper once. At least to try it. Maybe twice…

Sugar is fine for many things and sometimes you want to stretch a certain thing so you get creative.

Corn is cheaper than sugar though - here anyway…

Interested to see what your finished gravity turns out to be..

It should be around 1.000 but if you have unconverted starches it’ll be a bit higher. Maybe 1.015-1.030 depending. The corn probably didn’t fully convert if it wasn’t thoroughly gelatinized and depending on your mash temps maybe the malt too…

Best of luck and happy fathers day weekend if you’re a dad or have one around to celebrate with.

Cheers,
jonny

Thanks for the very detailed post.

The idea with the first run was about 40ish L of wash ended with a good return after the first stripping run.

The plan was to up the recipe by a 3rd to produce a higher abv, ended up making about 58L of wash. I want to do another stripping run on about 50L of that to see what I get and what abv it turns out to be. but reserve the extra 8L of wash.

From there I should have about 15-20 ish L of low wines. The idea because my still is 50L to use the remaining 8L of wash that I will have kept, put in to cover the element and add the low wines and do an actual spirit run. The Still should only be about half full, but my thought is that I should get about 3-5ish L of hearts to age.

last time was my very first stripping run ever and this will be my first spirit run ever.

I'm hoping it'll turn out well, however I'm very open to as much help as I can get.

I've heard Whiskey is the hardest spirit to make at home. So I figured next time I want to try a high abv sugar and corn moonshine run just to see how it turns out with something a bit more straight forward.

[Maverick1988]

A lot of good advice already here in response to your descriptions, but I think from your responses you could use some more reading and understanding before it's going to stick and make good sense. You'll need to be careful to finish the current process. If you have access to some gluco-amylase, it might help during ferment to convert a little more of the tons of starches you have here. Give it time to finish. Give it time to settle. Rack carefully and when you run it heat very slowly so not to scorch. I think your yield will be fairly low.

I guess I'd recommend going to the tried and true section, and pick a recipe with a clear procedure for processing corn in conjunction with other grains. Follow it carefully and get a feel for what works. Once it clicks, you could try again with your own recipe but following a process that makes sense, focusing on something repeatable that works. In the meantime, do some more reading. Below this post, there's a "required reading" section. Go through it all until it all makes sense while you are reading it. There's some really excellent information there which will provide context for what's going on.

Good luck!

I always appreciate as much advice as I can get. I have been reading a ton and talking to a ton of people.

I think when the time comes to do an actual spirit run for this first whiskey project and other projects as well. I'm going to experiment a bit and have a buddy who used to distill all the time come and help.

So far the biggest hardship has been the size of my still. 50L is quite large for a first time distiller.

[Oystercracker123]

If you can get angel yellow label off Amazon (two day delivery) it has the enzymes in it and you could convert the starch in this batch. Then use what you learn with reading on enzymes and mashing on future ones.

[Maverick1988]

If you can get angel yellow label off Amazon (two day delivery) it has the enzymes in it and you could convert the starch in this batch. Then use what you learn with reading on enzymes and mashing on future ones.

Thanks for the tip, I'll check it out