Talk to me about marble & pH balancing

[rubberduck71]

I typically use ground oyster shells, but I've read in multiple places here on HD that folks also use marble. So my questions are:

1. How big a slab does it have to be?
2. Where do you get it? There are a few kitchen supply vendors near me (counters & such), so I assume they have "scrap" pieces of marble that would otherwise get tossed? Is there a specific marble type or color to target?
3. Do you suspend it in the mash? This was my pain point with oyster shells -- hop sock tied to a string over side of bucket tied to the handle. Sugar washes you could get away with just tossing it in, without suspension, but most times shells are required I'm using on-grain sugarheads, so that hop sock gets buried under the grain bed.

I typically use either 6 gal buckets & also 20 gal buckets. But what if you have a 50 gal fermenter??? Does slab sizing go up?

End game here is to get away from oyster shell hop sock protocols & go towards (what is hopefully) plug-and-play, or rather toss-and-play.

Thanks!

[Salt Must Flow]

Here's a link.

I typically do 40-45 gal sugar washes in a 55 gal poly drum. The size of bags I show in that link is how much I use. Sure you can downsize for smaller fermentations. I always use more than I think I need. It's dissolves as much as needed to buffer the ph. Once fermented, I pull the bag out, thoroughly rinse it and set it out to dry. Marble Rocks/Chips works very well.

[Bradster68]

+1 I collect marble hot pads from flea markets, thrift stores etc. usually pure white pieces. They started out smooth and super rough and textured when used. I never have to worry about a pH crash

[rubberduck71]

Here's a link.

I typically do 40-45 gal sugar washes in a 55 gal poly drum. The size of bags I show in that link is how much I use. Sure you can downsize for smaller fermentations. I always use more than I think I need. It's dissolves as much as needed to buffer the ph. Once fermented, I pull the bag out, thoroughly rinse it and set it out to dry. Marble Rocks/Chips works very well.

Perfecto -- just what I was looking for! Thanks SMF!

[NZChris]

I use whatever I collect on my travels, large shells, marble, limestone rock.

The smaller the size the more reactive it is, as the surface area to volume ratio is greater, so to buffer I prefer a couple of large shells or chunks rather ground, or chipped. For example, a large shell may lose over half it's weight, but may still have 80% of the original surface area left to buffer the wash.

To get an idea of how much to use, I record the weight of the items before and after for future reference. Some of my ferments deposit crystals on the shells and they gain weight, indicating that those washes don't need to be buffered next time.

[shadylane]

My 2 cents worth.

Chunks of marble or shell grit depends on the mineral content of the water used to ferment.
It's during the first day or two when fermentation is going crazy, that pH control is most important.
The wash gets naturally more acidic, and the calcium reacts with it and the buffering increases.
With the water I use, the dust in chicken grit dissolves quickly and the bigger stuff slowly gets to work.
Long story short, your millage might vary depending on your water.

[MooseMan]

I use large shells if I think needed, but on a sugarhead with once used grain, I've never used any, as the grain buffers the pH for me.
Have you tried not using any at all rubberduck?

[NZChris]

Long story short, your millage might vary depending on your water.

That's why your own records are worth more than advice from a forum, book, or YouTube.

PH strips are cheap and are accurate enough for a ferment, plus the batteries never go flat.

[howie]

I use large shells if I think needed, but on a sugarhead with once used grain, I've never used any, as the grain buffers the pH for me.
Have you tried not using any at all rubberduck?

+1 i've never used any buffering agent on a sugar wash.
only used them on generational rum ferments.

[NZChris]

+1 i've never used any buffering agent on a sugar wash.
only used them on generational rum ferments.

I haven't had pH problems in sugar washes since I started chucking shells in.

Rum is different again, depending on the pH you want for either encouraging or inhibiting bacteria for the style of rum you are aiming for.

[joschi]

would granite work also? I just was at a stone-working place, and they don't have any marble, can't belive it, they make lots of kitchen tops, but only granite.

[rubberduck71]

I use large shells if I think needed, but on a sugarhead with once used grain, I've never used any, as the grain buffers the pH for me.
Have you tried not using any at all rubberduck?

Every sugarwash I've done has crashed hard, so I always stuck with oyster shell protocols.

[MooseMan]

I use large shells if I think needed, but on a sugarhead with once used grain, I've never used any, as the grain buffers the pH for me.
Have you tried not using any at all rubberduck?

Every sugarwash I've done has crashed hard, so I always stuck with oyster shell protocols.

Sugar washes yes I can see why you'd need a buffer, but do you even get crashes with on grain sugarheads?
I've not had that happen to me, but it's possible my water is also buffering the acid being produced by the yeast, as we have pretty good mineral composition here in Wales.

[rubberduck71]

Sugar washes yes I can see why you'd need a buffer, but do you even get crashes with on grain sugarheads?
I've not had that happen to me, but it's possible my water is also buffering the acid being produced by the yeast, as we have pretty good mineral composition here in Wales.

I'm lazy and have been using YLAY for the last few years. I've not had pH crashes on all grain mashes, but I definitely need the oyster shells when I do sugarheads on the spent grain. What's weird is that recently both my buddy & I had pretty serious crashes on all rice washes. Maybe something in the YLAY recently sold is somehow different than previous years...

[Salt Must Flow]

Sugar washes yes I can see why you'd need a buffer, but do you even get crashes with on grain sugarheads?
I've not had that happen to me, but it's possible my water is also buffering the acid being produced by the yeast, as we have pretty good mineral composition here in Wales.

I'm lazy and have been using YLAY for the last few years. I've not had pH crashes on all grain mashes, but I definitely need the oyster shells when I do sugarheads on the spent grain. What's weird is that recently both my buddy & I had pretty serious crashes on all rice washes. Maybe something in the YLAY recently sold is somehow different than previous years...

I just did a search and found a few other people saying the same thing. Then needed to buffer ph with all rice ferments. Even some not using YLAY.

[MooseMan]

I'm also running with YLAY but I've never done all rice, only used it as a low percent addition when available.
I guess there's something about rice that can't buffer so well, or that it breaks down so completely, there's very little fibre left to act as a buffer at all?

With the mash consisting of mainly flaked maize, I have no issues with the following sugarhead, or the guy that I often give my spent grain to.

[Demy]

I use marble only for sugar ferments... I cut it into pieces and put it in stainless steel tea filters... it's the common type of white marble. It works very well, the important thing is to adjust the pH at the beginning then the marble will give the buffer effect during fermentation.