15/5 Keg Build

[Rusty Ole Bucket]

I've been interested since high school but never had the opportunity to try distilling. One of my friends would sneak his dad's homemade peach brandy when no one was looking for us to sip on, and it was some really good stuff. I'm in my late 50's now and finally have the ability to dabble in the fine arts myself. I've been lurking off and on for 6 months, just reading and checking out rigs. There is a wealth of knowledge here and you guys have given me the confidence to go for it.

So...here we go! I love to tinker more than drink so I've decided I want to stay really modular, the idea being, I can try different things and different types of finished products, eventually. I figured I'd stay pretty simple to start and go with a pot, thumper and condenser, building it with the ability to run the pot with just the condenser or add in the thumper. I thought about buying something for about 10 seconds then decided I definitely wanted to build my own set up exactly the way I wanted it. I also feel like built verses bought gives you an understanding of the apparatus you're trying to operate. I can sweat copper, but thought building my own pot was a little much out the gate, so I decide the first still should be a keg still. I've got a buddy I trust lined up to help with the stainless fab that has a machine shop and 40 years of experience running it. I'm kinda stoked to see what he can do. I'm adding in a couple of Lion Brewing DIY kits off Evilbay, a couple of Jungle Website deliveries, one or nine trips to The Depot and there you have it, let the dabbling begin.

Here's the basic idea.

A few parts have started showing up in the shop.

[Twisted Brick]

Welcome in ROB!

It's clear you've done some homework, and from your decision to go with a modular keg, have reduced/eliminated much that you might have to replace/upgrade later on.

Enjoy the journey!

[Deplorable]

I'd reconsider the 1/2 inch vapor path. I'm of the belief that a consistent vapor velocity is easier to control and will improve the efficiency of your condenser based on my experience.

[Rusty Ole Bucket]

Thanks for the advice, I'll take all I can get.

I was just taking to Twisted about that, I have to move forward right now with the 1/2" from the pot/column cap to the thumper, I can upgrade to 3/4" in the future, but right now this is it.

I already have it in the works to go to 3/4" inlet at the thumper and I haven't decided on the final configuration of the thumper to condenser, I might even try to go bigger than 3/4" with that.

Rusty

[MooseMan]

Good to see you getting started Rusty. And you've chosen a very dependable boiler setup.

Your drawing comes over a bit blurry to me, but if you are intending to run 1/2" vapour lines then as Deplorable says, you should reconsider it.
That's very small on a keg setup.
When stripping especially, I think that could cause flow restrictions.

Keep it all 2" for as long as you can would be my advice, then step down to maybe 1" or 3/4" when you have to?

[Rusty Ole Bucket]

Thanks for the welcome Mooseman. I'm going to take the advice given and up size my lines to at least 3/4". I'm kinda thinking I'm going to make a modular cap with much larger diameter guts that could switch between the 2" thumper top and replace the 2 " column top to run without the thumper. Maybe even try my hand at making a shotgun condenser instead of the Liebig. I could pull that off with my skill set I believe.

Rusty

[Yummyrum]

Hey Rusty
I like what you are doing .
But I think if you want to keep things modular , try to use tri-clamps where ever possible and stick to one size as much as possible .

That’s what I ended doing and now pretty much all my stuff is 2” and is interchangeable .

viewtopic.php?p=7475122&sid=b50f8c1b69e ... 6#p7475122

[Rusty Ole Bucket]

Thanks for the info Yummyrum. That's a great looking rig!

That's the plan, make as much modular as possible. I'm currently on a 2" path because of the Sanke keg tops, so the plan is to stay there as much as possible and my budget will allow. It's also in the plans to use tri clamps and copper unions everywhere possible/needed to accomplish the modular setup. The idea was to be able to easily add another section to the column and experiment with height of the setup, swap caps between the pot and the thumper, column stuffing, both frequency and material, that sort of thing. I also want the versatility to run all sorts of things and I'm hoping the modular nature will help with the different setups required. I love good bourbon, and dark rum, my wife loves bourbon and sipping cream, I'm hoping to eventually not have anything store bought in my house. It's going to take a while, but I hope to get there, eventually.

Rusty

[Rusty Ole Bucket]

Oh, and you guys will be glad to hear I think I've figured out how to eliminate the 1/2" and stay in budget.

[joschi]

mind you: there ist most probably not enough space for a 6" ferrule next to the original hole on top of the keg (the clamp takes also a lot of space!)
Maybe it's possible, but i'm not sure.

[Rusty Ole Bucket]

mind you: there ist most probably not enough space for a 6" ferrule next to the original hole on top of the keg (the clamp takes also a lot of space!)
Maybe it's possible, but i'm not sure.

Hi Joschi,
I think it will work based on a few I've seen done this way; I think the tricker one to fit is going to be a 4" on the pony keg. I want access to clean, etc. and I think a 4" is the smallest I could comfortably get my hand through, but I could switch from the 6" to the 4" if it turns out that way. I have (2) 6" flanges and (2) 4" flanges on the way, one of them will fit. My fabrication buddy can weld most anything, so if we had to, we could possibly put it on the side. I do plan to have the cover and the clamp on hand for both sizes when we do the layout to make sure it all fits.

This video was what gave me the idea.

Rusty

[Twisted Brick]

You won't regret installing your 6" ferrule wherever you put it. Mine went in the middle to accommodate my steam spear. I haven't needed to re-fill my boiler for a second run and if I ever do, it only takes a minute or two to remove the riser and stillhead. Tri-clamps rock.

[Rusty Ole Bucket]

You won't regret installing your 6" ferrule wherever you put it.

I think you're right on that one. When I decided to do a keg, I knew this was something that I definitely wanted in it. Trying to do everything through a 2" Sanke flange seems like a lot of trouble. I knew my buddy could help me out, so I decided to go for that upgrade.

Tri-clamps rock.

As soon as I saw them and how they worked I knew I wanted to assemble my still that way. Those things and the modular construction they offer are a tinkerers dream.

Rusty

[Tōtōchtin]

I've lost muscle tone and can stick my arm in a 4" ferrule but just so. I decided to use that on my steam gen and 2nd thumper. I bought 6" instead,although most here will say it's not really needed. Another consideration before you get to welding would be putting a 2" ferrule on the thumper so you might be able to charge it after your heads, adding more flavor if you find it lacking, or fragile/acid things towards the end. I'd wait until you could find a larger pipe.
Suerte Tōtō

[Rusty Ole Bucket]

Another consideration before you get to welding would be putting a 2" ferrule on the thumper so you might be able to charge it after your heads, adding more flavor if you find it lacking, or fragile/acid things towards the end.

Thanks for the advice. I'm adding a 4" flange to the top of the thumper to clean and charge. Basically, the same as the pot keg, but scaled down. It will have a blind flange (cover) over it with a tri clamp & gasket while I'm running, but be available for cleaning, etc. when I'm not.

I'm hoping fitting my arm in a 4" isn't a thing, I'm really hoping we can get the 6" in the pot without a lot of trouble. I'll know Monday or Tuesday when the flanges get here.

Rusty

[OtisT]

Hi ROB. One design change to consider for your modular build would be to change some of the vapor path plumbing between riser/thumper and thumper/condenser so that the elevation of the major parts does not need to be fixed. To do this make each vapor path input and output connection horizontal. Then use a vapor path arms with an elbow at each end, and also add an elbow at the top of your Liebig. This would allow you to change elevations of your boiler/thumper and it will allow you to change the angle of your Liebig.

A picture is worth a lot, so here are two examples of what I am talking about. One shows using tri-clamp connections and one is using unions with a Liebig too.

[Rusty Ole Bucket]

Thanks for the advice OtisT, that's a great idea. I'm going to be running outdoors with propane so my starting height will be the top of a burner. I'm kinda planning something made out of pavers and cinder blocks for the base set up. I have a bunch of both on hand. The loose plan is to just stack them and use a little construction adhesive here and there to lock everything in but I would like everything as low as possible and definitely on a stable base of some sort.

[Rusty Ole Bucket]

OK, got the spears out of the kegs and they're soaking with a Simple Green solution. What was left in both of them was nasty! Dark green and thick! Maybe a cup in each. The guy I got them from runs a keg store and said he had them a while, I believe it.

I also picked up everything I need for a 1" over 3/4" Liebig condenser this morning. The 6" keg ferrules should be in Monday or Tuesday. I'm hoping to get them welded in next weekend. I'm going to center them on top of the kegs and move the 2" to the top of the 6" SS ferrule cover. It should make fabrication and access easier, at least that's the idea.

Rusty

[Yummyrum]

1”over 3/4” is great combo . Make it about 6’ long so the collection is far from the flames . Also 6’ means you can run it really hard like over 12litres an hour with trickle of water and flames up the side if the keg …..not that I ever did .

[MooseMan]

1”over 3/4” is great combo . Make it about 6’ long so the collection is far from the flames . Also 6’ means you can run it really hard like over 12litres an hour with trickle of water and flames up the side if the keg …..not that I ever did .

Not that he ever did!

Mine is that size combo rusty (Not quite 6" though) and it's a very capable condenser.
It will handle pretty much anything you could do with a keg. Great choice.

[Rusty Ole Bucket]

1”over 3/4” is great combo . Make it about 6’ long so the collection is far from the flames . Also 6’ means you can run it really hard like over 12litres an hour with trickle of water and flames up the side if the keg …..not that I ever did .

Well, the are some factors at play that make the budget for getting started pretty low for something other than a Jungle website Vivor, but I'm determined to get going now. I bartered some work for the copper so I couldn't be really picky. The longest piece of 3/4" I have is 60" so it's looking like the 1" shell will be about 54" to 56". I'm planning on adding the wire to the outer surface of the 3/4", I believe you guys call it a "Turbulator" when you do that and the twisted baffles inside the 3/4", hoping to pick up some efficiency. I'm dropping down to a 1/2" spout, and filling it with stainless scouring pad. I can put my hands on food grade 55 gallon drums so I'm planning that as the circulation reservoir, if need be I can insulate and add ice. I'm hopeful that will be enough.

Not that he ever did!

Mine is that size combo rusty (Not quite 6" though) and it's a very capable condenser.
It will handle pretty much anything you could do with a keg. Great choice.

Glad to hear it, I'm in the process if getting everything set up to start fabrication on the copper. I'll drop some pictures once I get going.

Rusty

[Twisted Brick]

Your plan is coming along nicely, Rusty. All of your construction/design elements add up to a top-flight first kit indeed. With a 5' liebig, you might consider adding some height to your riser to create a higher collection point. Either that or adding to the brick base you mentioned earlier (or both). I have never run a liebig, but am not sure adding any type of scrubbie to the spout of the liebig is warranted (or safe?). Others may have opinions to share.

Note that your coolant water (excellent 55gal vessel, BTW) will accumulate heat over the course of your run. Adding insulation will be counter-productive to the gradient you want to preserve.

[Rusty Ole Bucket]

Great advice as always Twisted!

I have a question for you guys. I was out in the yard rolling the kegs around with chain and Simple Green solution in them. That works great to clean them! I'm just trying to get them clean enough right now to do the fab work.

What's the general conscious on cutting the top ring partially? I've seen some with one opening and I've seen some with just the handles left. I'm kind of leaning toward the latter, seems like it would make working around the top of the pot and thumper easier. I did buy these from an independent beer distributor, he took them on trade and couldn't use them again, something about where they were made. I don't know if that's a consideration but...

So what do you guys think? Do the upper keg rings offer anything that I'm not thinking of?

Rusty

[Twisted Brick]

I like the upper ring for stability when hose cleaning and draining. I insulate the top of my kegs (including keggle mash tun) and the ring works great to hold that insulation in place. The upper ring doesn't impede impede work. Lastly, I place a square of plywood on top of a keg and stack a second keg on top for space efficiency.

Work with them with the rings for a time and if you don't like them, cut 'em down.

[Rusty Ole Bucket]

Work with them with the rings for a time and if you don't like them, cut 'em down.

That's a good point.

[MooseMan]

The longest piece of 3/4" I have is 60" so it's looking like the 1" shell will be about 54" to 56". I'm planning on adding the wire to the outer surface of the 3/4", I believe you guys call it a "Turbulator" when you do that and the twisted baffles inside the 3/4", hoping to pick up some efficiency. I'm dropping down to a 1/2" spout, and filling it with stainless scouring pad. I can put my hands on food grade 55 gallon drums so I'm planning that as the circulation reservoir, if need be I can insulate and add ice. I'm hopeful that will be enough.

Rusty

Just a couple of comments rusty.

I don't think the twisted wire will do anything at all, your water jacket will be exchanging so slowly, there's no way that the wire, or baffles, will increase efficiency by adding turbulence to the water, it will simply creep over and around the wire.
Your choice of sizing means that there is going to be a very thin, very slowly exchanged cooling medium to wick heat away, so it's already very efficient.
I wouldn't bother with the wire..

I also wouldn't bother with the reduction at the spout, or the scourers, it adds nothing. Take a bit of that copper wire, twist it up and use that as a product director, done.
Run your Liebig just sloping below horizontal.

Don't insulate your cooling barrel, that will hamper it, if you can drop the return water through the air, do that though.

[Rusty Ole Bucket]

OK, I don't mind skipping a step of it's not going to help, that's why I'm discussing it with you guys as I go. When I was reading the Liebig threads it seemed like a lot of people included it with a 1/4" water jacket casing.

Too late on the spout though, I made it already. That's where I started, although I had intended to make it fiction fit so I'm not 100% committed.

[AlZilla]

OK, I don't mind skipping a step of it's not going to help, that's why I'm discussing it with you guys as I go. When I was reading the Liebig threads it seemed like a lot of people included it with a 1/4" water jacket casing.

Too late on the spout though, I made it already. That's where I started, although I had intended to make it fiction fit so I'm not 100% committed.

20240818_120422.jpg

This is the first time I've noticed anyone saying to not install some device to break up the flow of cooling water. I've never seen anyone claim it hurt to have it installed. I don't really know which is correct, but I do know you'll have to undo all your solder work if you decide you want it later.

Just seems odd to leave it out.

[Rusty Ole Bucket]

This is the first time I've noticed anyone saying to not install some device to break up the flow of cooling water. I've never seen anyone claim it hurt to have it installed. I don't really know which is correct, but I do know you'll have to undo all your solder work if you decide you want it later.

Just seems odd to leave it out.

Well, that's what I thought too, I've read about it in a lot of builds on here. In fact I just went back and re-read a bunch of them, most talk about adding it even if you don't do anything in the vapor path. I'm probably going to add it and a coil inside the vapor tube, my spout is going to be friction fit so I can try it several different ways. The fabrication and build are a big part of this for me, I'm going to max out as much as possible just for the fun of it.

Rusty

[MooseMan]

The friction fit spout thing, now I see the pic I get you. Go for it.

The twisted wire in the water jacket?
I'm no thermodynamics engineer but I understand what's happening inside that tube, thanks to being educated on this very forum.

Here's a couple of related quotes, from guys that have been doing this a very long time!

NZChris
I have done that in one with a clear jacket. Because the spiral doesn't completely fill the gap so that it is impossible for the water to do anything but circulate within the spiral, it doesn't give a toss about the spiral and just leaks through the tiny gap as though the spiral isn't there. Hot water is lighter than cold water and the difference in density is enough to overcome the influence from my spiral unless the flow rate is far higher than I need

Shadylane
I've wasted a fair amount of time experimenting with liebigs.
All the mods I've tried on the water jacket side made no measurable difference.

The vapor side of the condenser is a different story.
A cold finger is good, anything without a cooling water source is bad.

Wire spirals, copper mesh and such is a detriment.
They absorb heat on the hot end and conduct it to the cold end.
Basically, they thermally short out the condenser.

Ya don't believe me.
Start by marking the spot on your condenser where the temp gradient goes from hot to cold.
Then start sticking pieces of copper wire or mesh inside the vapor tube.
See what direction the hot to cool spot on the jacket goes

Edit:
I hope these gents don't mind me directly quoting them.