Texas judge rules home distilling ban UNCONSTITUTIONAL!

[bluefish_dist]

Having had my license, just being able to have the still at your home and having to get a license makes it a no go for me. Reporting is a pain and unless you are good with numbers, you really need one of the ttb reporting programs.

For me the preferred outcome would be to have either up to X sized still or so many gallons of wash per year legal like home brew. A less desirable outcome, but still ok would be a home license where you pay taxes quarterly or yearly. At $2.70 a proof gallon, who really cares about paying the taxes of that’s what it takes to be legal.

[AlZilla]

Requiring a license or anything else would do nothing to stop people who want to make and sell bootleg liquor.

[6 Row Joe]

Having had my license, just being able to have the still at your home and having to get a license makes it a no go for me. Reporting is a pain and unless you are good with numbers, you really need one of the ttb reporting programs.

For me the preferred outcome would be to have either up to X sized still or so many gallons of wash per year legal like home brew. A less desirable outcome, but still ok would be a home license where you pay taxes quarterly or yearly. At $2.70 a proof gallon, who really cares about paying the taxes of that’s what it takes to be legal.

I like the way you think.

[Yonder]

Herein lies the problem. Money and influence. The organization has both. There are currently over 700 jobs in Texas that require a state permission. The established business community is all in for restricting competition and their lobbying pays politicians to help. You think our hobby will play out differently? You have another think coming. Sorry to be a downer but I’ve fought this monster before.

[Twisted Brick]

For me the preferred outcome would be to have either up to X sized still or so many gallons of wash per year legal like home brew. A less desirable outcome, but still ok would be a home license where you pay taxes quarterly or yearly. At $2.70 a proof gallon, who really cares about paying the taxes of that’s what it takes to be legal.

The idea of taxing everyday citizens for creating a product strictly for personal use is abhorrent. Concentrate enforcement of penalties for selling but leave the hobbyists alone. Since day one homebrewers and winemakers have remained untaxed. What justification exists to implement taxation on homedistillers?

This outcome amounts to extortion, where an act is deemed illegal, but if the violator is willing to pay money to continue his 'illicit' acts, the government will look the other way. As unreasonable as the concept of instituting a 'per proof-gallon tax' for hobbyists is, collecting it would appear, just like prohibiting homedistilling, highly impractical.

US states' increasing embrace of homedistilling legalization is positive, and slowly making inroads. Perhaps the latest federal ruling will help move the ball at the state level.

[Bolverk]

The idea of taxing everyday citizens for creating a product strictly for personal use is abhorrent. Concentrate enforcement of penalties for selling but leave the hobbyists alone. Since day one homebrewers and winemakers have remained untaxed. What justification exists to implement taxation on homedistillers?

This outcome amounts to extortion, where an act is deemed illegal, but if the violator is willing to pay money to continue his 'illicit' acts, the government will look the other way. As unreasonable as the concept of instituting a 'per proof-gallon tax' for hobbyists is, collecting it would appear, just like prohibiting homedistilling, highly impractical.

Hear F'ing hear!

[Saltbush Bill]

Well said TB.....some good points made.

[acfixer69]

Paying Fed income taxes on the social security money I receive, which was taxed as a payroll tax, then taxed again to buy a grain bill at the store, then pay fee's and taxes on fuels to run the still and tax me for personnel consumption on home new make. Fuck that.

[LWTCS]

Paying Fed income taxes on the social security money I receive, which was taxed as a payroll tax, then taxed again to buy a grain bill at the store, then pay fee's and taxes on fuels to run the still and tax me for personnel consumption on home new make. Fuck that.

100%

[AlZilla]

Well, the government appealed. Don't ya love your government waging war on you with your own money?

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/ip-law/ta ... government

The above lnk now seems to be behind a paywall. Sorry.
Here's the Notice of Appeal:

[wscywabbit]

Well this was to be expected. The first hurdle is done. Move onto the 5th Circuit court. Assuming they uphold the lower court's decision, the ATF will appeal again. Then it will hopefully go to the Supreme court and be put to bed for good. One step at a time. I do believe that it will come out in our favor in the end, it will just take time. At the very least, I think it may become "up to the purvue of the states" and not within the jurisdiction of federal ABC's.

[Yummyrum]

The whole thing misses the point in my opinion .
If it is OK to produce x amount of wine and beer a year tax free fir personal consumption , why should one then be taxed when that same alcohol is distilled .

That I believe is the ridiculous point that a Judge in New Zealand realised.

[LWTCS]

.........

[acfixer69]

.........

And in the end If there is any thing left Toys, Cars, Property to give your children. They tax them on the inheritance. That said in a non political speaking tone mind you.

[AlZilla]

The whole thing misses the point in my opinion .
If it is OK to produce x amount of wine and beer a year tax free fir personal consumption , why should one then be taxed when that same alcohol is distilled .

That I believe is the ridiculous point that a Judge in New Zealand realised.

Unless congress acts and legalizes home distillation, it's going to take long, painful and expensive litigation. Being appealed now means this case will be another year or two crawling through the appellate courts. Then another appeal to the US Supreme Court, maybe. Then another year or two horsing around there. Not to mention a flood of cash.

Even then, as you say it's not unshackling home distillation. It's just creating a felony shell game.

It might be a small step in the right direction, or it might be a case of poking the sleeping bear.

[kiwi Bruce]

Don't these agencies run on a budget? The ATF and it's appendiges must be crapping their resources on defending the Second Amendment cases. Do they have anything left in the tank to fight the home distilling ruling? And speaking of the 2A the 9th district court (just 3 hours ago {9:30 now}) ruled the the ban on fully automatic weapons is unconstitutional. This will cause a full blown "crap" hurricane, not just a storm. The ATF and it's appendiges will spend whatever it takes to fight this! ! !

[Yonder]

The 5th circuit is a good one. Hope for the best.

[kiwi Bruce]

The 5th circuit is a good one. Hope for the best.

Was it the 5th circuit ?...I got my courts mixed up!

[The Booze Pipe]

Death to (Federal) taxes

[kiwi Bruce]

As of the time that Clawhammer created that video, there hadn't been an appeal yet. They posted that on July 29th and the appeal was filed August 14th...

The Federal Government DIDN'T file an appeal yet, according to Carl from Clawhammer Supply...watch

Ok then...I'm full of crap, sorry all!

[wscywabbit]

As of the time that Clawhammer created that video, there hadn't been an appeal yet. They posted that on July 29th and the appeal was filed August 14th...

[Bolverk]

Per the HDA today

"The government did file today we are still gathering more information and should have a blog within the next day or two."

Updates coming soon hopefully

[Bolverk]

Per the HDA today

We are a little tardy in getting this information to you, but still work to keep you updated on everything going on with the HDA.

On October 28 the Department of Justice (DOJ) filed its merit brief for their argument against the original ruling back in June, when Judge Mark Pittman ruled in favor of the Hobby Distillers Association (for more on that ruling see our previous post here).  The government was given 14 days to file an emergency appeal and keep the stay on the ruling in place, but declined to do so.  As a result, when the 14 day period ended it made it possible for HDA members to obtain a permit to distill in their home (all other requirements for the permit were unchanged).

Although the government did not immediately appeal the decision it did not preclude them from being able to file an appeal.  They did so on October 28, and now our case will head to the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals.  The time for the appeals process is unknown, however, it is very important to note that while the appeal process is ongoing HDA members are still able to obtain a permit for distilling at home.  You still must meet all regular requirements in order for your permit to be approved, such as maintaining specific locks on doors, etc.  What has been removed through the original ruling is the location requirement, which precluded one from having a distillery in their home.  It is also worth reminding you that you must be a HDA member in order to be covered by the ruling.

How this will play out is obviously to be determined, but rest assured that we will be working to keep you updated as information becomes available.

[Twisted Brick]

Thanks for the update, Bolverk.