need potstill condenser advice

[dingfelder]

I am having some cooling issues and could use some advice

I have a 65L digiboil that works great in reflux mode - Details:

• boiler lid has 4" hole
• reduce to 3"
• 3" sightglass packed with copper scrubbers
• 1m tall 3" column packed with stainless spirals
• 3" reflux condenser
• reduce to 2" with thermometer
• 2" sightglass
• 2" 90 elbow
• 2" condenser

Photo

In this mode I can run the boiler full out - e.g 3500 watts and the condensers can copy wonderfully, 20 degrees C at output

When trying to run in pot still mode though, I have issues
My output temp is 50+ degrees with the same water flow into the 2" condenser shown below
running at lower power (2k watts) it comes out at 40" with slow output speed

• boiler lid has 4" hole
• reduce to 3"
• 3" sightglass packed with copper scrubbers
• reduce to 2" with thermometer
• 2" sightglass
• 2" connection to pot still (leibig?) condenser

Photo:

I know long / slow output is good for pot stills but I know 40 degrees is way hot for the output.
Is there anything I can do with this setup to make it cool better at decent volumes?

1. Does my pot still condenser just suck and I need one that cools more efficiently?
2. or are there other parts I have already that I could add to the setup to make it cool more
   (like adding another condenser before the liebig condenser)

Also
When in pot still mode (trying to make whisky for example), I am assuming from what I've read that I want as little reflux as possible to maximise flavour.
From what I understand, passive reflux occurs with column height, especially when the column gets cool,
and reflux also occurs when it hits stuff (like my scrubbies I assume)
or encounters a volume increase like an onion

so I'm wondering...
In that case do I want as little height as possible?
And how dense should the copper packing be (or should it be left out?)

[Reefer1]

Lookin at your last pic dude your condenser looks pretty short, i have a liebig that is running on a 2.1kw boiler with a 24" cooling jacket and when i run stripping it only just copes running full on, my product comes out 40c ish.
To be honest i fished out my 30 year old coil condenser gonna try that it has 77" of 10mm tube.
There are more experienced guys than me that might wanna chip in, but my thinking is pot mode only needs your product condeser running i dont think height is an issue you dont want reflux,
I think there are some calculators for cooling on this forum might be worth havin a look round.

[MooseMan]

A couple of things to note ding.

In reflux mode, your condenser is vertical, (In pot mode it's shown at 45°) so it most probably is just more efficient at running positioned like that.
Those SS condensers are really not that great so the sooner you build a nice long copper Liebig the better.

40°C is perfectly fine as a product output temp. As long as there is no vapour coming off it, your all good.

In pot mode, you don't want those scrubbers in the vapour path.

Are you running from a water reservoir with a pump, or from mains water?

[Yummyrum]

I’m seeing two different condensers . A 2” shotty on the reflux still and a short liebig on the Pot still .

Why don’t you use the Shotty as a Pot still condenser ?

If it’s a height issue , wrap the riser in a blanket or other insulation when you are doing a spirit run . When stripping on the Pot still , it wont matter a tinkers cuss whether you have a packed or unpacked riser , insulated or not .

You can also run the Shotty on a reasonable angle ,but obviously not as horizontal as a Liebig

[Saltbush Bill]

Pull the deflegmator off of the reflux still and un pack the column, you've then got a pot with a better product condenser.
That or as someone else suggested, make a decent copper liebig.
Stainless really is a second rate material for condenser builds IMO.

[howie]

i basically wrote the same as salty, but my post timed out (hate that)
anyway, i said that i would use one of those columns unpacked, to give me some height, then use the 2" shotty to condense.
i did question if you have a power controller?
my 2400w brewzilla cannot overpower my 450mm PC shotty.
but it can easily overpower my 200mm shotty reflux deflag, if i wasn't using a power controller obv

[dingfelder]

Are you running from a water reservoir with a pump, or from mains water?

I am running from a water reservoir. I'm wondering if upgrading to a stronger pump motor would help too

i did question if you have a power controller?

Yes I have a power controller. so yes I could lower the power, but my point was wanting to have better cooling so I could run a higher power, so didnt see the advantage of lowering the power - but yes I certainly could

i would use one of those columns unpacked, to give me some height

I'm under the impression that height in a pot still can cause reflux - which I was trying to minimise when doing pot still mode - or is height only an issue when its not insulated? e.g. its not the height that causes reflux but rather the cooling that happens as a side-effect of the taller column if not insulated well?

In pot mode, you don't want those scrubbers in the vapour path.

The reason I was adding copper scrubbers was to add some copper to the vapour since most of my path is SS - I know making the still in copper would be ideal but it is what it is... If/when I build a new liebig I will definitely do it out of copper.

I guess the question is:
Adding the scrubbers may be adding reflux (which can reduce flavour)
Not having scrubbers means no copper at all in the path - which of those 2 will affect the flavour more?
Just wondering what the best option is given my setup - Does anyone ever dump the copper scrubber directly into the pot (e.g floating in the wash)?

And if I really had to try and add some copper, whats the best bang for the buck to improve the setup for whisky making pot still - getting a copper column instead of the stainless column? or buying an onion to sit on the pot?

[Yummyrum]

I personally find packing and unpacking columns a pain in the backside . Getting the packing just right can take a few attempts , so when I have my reflux column woking well , I hate having go unpack it .

You can leave the defleg in place ( run it with no water at all in it ) and you can wrap the packed column ( Riser) in a blanket and you’ll see hardly any difference to using an unpacked riser .

But I agree that getting a dedicated riser would be a neater solution . In fact , make it a copper riser and you’ll have all the copper you need in the vapour ascending path .

Also , if you then have a dedicated stripper setup , you will make a cleaner Neutral when you run Low wines through it .

I also agree with Howie , you may need a power controller . Even 2kw would be too much power for a charge that your digiboil can hold .

Mind you , if you use a power controller . You might just find that that little liebig works just fine.

[dingfelder]

also - someone above suggested using the shotgun condenser - I actually tried that a long time ago in a different thread I posted a long time ago viewtopic.php?p=7773223#p7773223

so absolutely that's an option - I resolved that issue when I turned my shogun vertical

So what I'm pondering:
I know I can make really good pure spirits in reflux mode with my column etc.
The goal I have with this alternative setup is to be able to make really good tasting whisky etc.

Most professional setups Ive seen for pot still/whisky set ups have an angled lyne arm, leading to a liebig on the way down at an angle (great story on lyne arms here https://scotchwhisky.com/magazine/ask-t ... -lyne-arm/)

Question I have is:
What is the value/benefit is gained from the lyne arm vs the liebig condenser portion of the setup
e.g. I have three 45 degree 2" elbows - I could potentially add those to go sideways at the top of the column - horizontal (or slightly up or down) and then drip into the shotgun that I know cools efficiently, and not use the liebig...
or does the diagonal angle of the liebig add some magic I would be missing?
or do I try and go back to something like the photo above and have both the shotgun and the liebig?

[dingfelder]

also agree with Howie , you may need a power controller . Even 2kw would be too much power for a charge that your digiboil can hold .

I have a controller. And to clarify - when I'm in reflux mode, I can go full bore at 3500w with 100% power, and the cooling knocks it down to 20 degrees.
the only time I have to lower the power is if I am adding in ingredients to the gin basket at the top as it then pushes oils over the top.
It's only when im trying to do it in pot still mode with my too short liebig that the cooling is overpowered

[dingfelder]

I personally find packing and unpacking columns a pain in the backside . Getting the packing just right can take a few attempts, so when I have my reflux column working well , I hate having go unpack it .

I feel your pain. When i pack the reflux column (with stainless spirals and copper scrubbers) it is indeed a pain to disassemble

[Salt Must Flow]

That's another benefit to using Lava Rock for packing. It doesn't really compact much at all when jostled. It gives you consistent performance from run to run. You simply pour it down the column, smack the side of the column several times and the stuff works better than any other packing I've ever tried. When I'm done with a run, I just disconnect the base of the column and pour the Lava Rock out into a bucket full of water. It helps to rinse it and buffers the fall of the rocks. I pour the Lava Rock into mesh bags and set it aside to dry.

[dingfelder]

That's another benefit to using Lava Rock for packing. It doesn't really compact much at all when jostled. It gives you consistent performance from run to run. You simply pour it down the column, smack the side of the column several times and the stuff works better than any other packing I've ever tried. When I'm done with a run, I just disconnect the base of the column and pour the Lava Rock out into a bucket full of water. It helps to rinse it and buffers the fall of the rocks. I pour the Lava Rock into mesh bags and set it aside to dry.

I do the same with my stainless SPPs - I have a screen on the bottom, and pour them into the 3" column - the painful part is to not pour them on the floor as they are too big for a funnel

[Salt Must Flow]

That's another benefit to using Lava Rock for packing. It doesn't really compact much at all when jostled. It gives you consistent performance from run to run. You simply pour it down the column, smack the side of the column several times and the stuff works better than any other packing I've ever tried. When I'm done with a run, I just disconnect the base of the column and pour the Lava Rock out into a bucket full of water. It helps to rinse it and buffers the fall of the rocks. I pour the Lava Rock into mesh bags and set it aside to dry.

I do the same with my stainless SPPs - I have a screen on the bottom, and pour them into the 3" column - the painful part is to not pour them on the floor as they are too big for a funnel

I use a wide canning funnel with my 3" column and it works perfectly. They will work with a 2" column as long as you can hold it in place because it's slightly too big to fit inside the pipe.