oakstills bain-marie

[The Booze Pipe]

I started some research on a bane-marie/steam jacket pot for stripping, and avoiding scorch. Does anyone have experience with this Oakstills model, or something similar? https://oakstills.com/products/100l-cop ... bain-marie

The jacket is rated at 7.25psi (0.05MPa ), and comes with a 4.25psi (.03MPa) PRV

so my question is, is 4.25 enough pressure to generate high enough temperature for the 26 gallon boiler? From the reading I did, it sounds like you want closer to 1 bar, or around 14psi.

[zach]

At 4 psi, the saturated temperature for steam is 224 F. A 6% abv wash begins to boil 204 F. There is not much of a temperature difference to drive heat transfer.

At 15 psig the steam jackets are required to have an ASME U stamp in the US, which I doubt Oak Stills can provide. I think you may be better off with a heat transfer oil in the jacket or looking at direct steam injection instead.

[The Booze Pipe]

Oakstills says they can build a boiler with thicker walls to handle that 1 bar of pressure. And this is a home hobby setup so I don't think I need any stamps.
But that 14 psi should give me enough temp difference to drive the thing, around 250f?

[The Booze Pipe]

The main thing I am after is upping my efficiency. I would save a significant amount of time not clearing a mash. I could setup a thumper, but again, I'm running a risk of scorch in the boiler. But really I'm avoiding going down the thumper hole.

[Bolverk]

Live steam injection seems to be the best option at the hobby level. Works great for mashing and distilling on grain

[The Booze Pipe]

I persisted in my research and found a good thread explaining all of my questions.
viewtopic.php?t=74106

[tjsc5f]

I purchased this one https://oakstills.com/products/100lt-26 ... t-belly-ss

It's rated for 14.5 psi, and they have a copper top version for a bit more $$.

I have received and unpacked it, but haven't got to run it yet. Planning on just putting enough water in it to keep the elements covered and running with low pressure steam in the jacket. I've read doing it this way only builds up ~5psi.

[The Booze Pipe]

I purchased this one https://oakstills.com/products/100lt-26 ... t-belly-ss

It's rated for 14.5 psi, and they have a copper top version for a bit more $$.

I have received and unpacked it, but haven't got to run it yet. Planning on just putting enough water in it to keep the elements covered and running with low pressure steam in the jacket. I've read doing it this way only builds up ~5psi.

Thanks for the post! This will be a good spot to report back once you've started running it.

[TwoSheds]

Just some food for thought: heat transfer from steam has a hidden booster. When steam condenses, as it will within your jacket, it gives off extra heat. A search for 'latent heat of condensation' will provide plenty of better explanations than I can provide, but I would expect this to be a considerable factor in the heat transfer to your boiler and a strong argument for insulating your bain marie still.

That having been said, I have also gone the steam injection route with great success! There aren't a lot of drawbacks to it but it does take some figuring out.

Good luck and stay safe!

TwoSheds

[jonnys_spirit]

I figure that I take off approximately five gallons of low wines per typical ~15g stripping charge of "cleared beer". For a steam stripper, how much volume can we expect to take on in condensed steam>water in the secondary boiler (aka: thumper) during the course of a similar volume strip on fermented mash?

Thanks,
jonny

[Dancing4dan]

I figure that I take off approximately five gallons of low wines per typical ~15g stripping charge of "cleared beer". For a steam stripper, how much volume can we expect to take on in condensed steam>water in the secondary boiler (aka: thumper) during the course of a similar volume strip on fermented mash?

Thanks,
jonny

That depends on several factors.

1. Is the thumper connected during boiler heat up? I fill my boiler and start heating then assemble the rest of the still.

2. How thick are the grains you are stripping? I only steam strip the grains. Thicker slop may need water added to strip. To thick and steam will channel.

3. Is the steam line arm from boiler to thumper insulated? No insulation causes condensation of steam in line arm. A LOT MORE!

4. Does the steam line arm slope toward the thumper or toward the boiler? Sloped toward the thumper and you will gain a lot more water in thumper. A LOT MORE!

5. Does the steam line arm go down through centre of thumper or is it a side entrance to the thumper. Side entrance leaves the steam exposed to room temperatures for the duration of the run leading to more condensation of steam adding water volume to the thumper. Centre entrance retains heat as thumper comes to temp.

6. Is the thumper being pre heated? I used to pre heat thumper with propane. This requires stirring to avoid scorching. Pre heating uses less water from boiler.

My boiler is a small keg, 29 liters, with a side mount element. My thumper is a 75 liter pot that may be half full. When a run is complete there is enough water in the boiler to keep the element covered and to clean all of the equipment.

[zach]

I purchased this one https://oakstills.com/products/100lt-26 ... t-belly-ss

It's rated for 14.5 psi, and they have a copper top version for a bit more $$.

I have received and unpacked it, but haven't got to run it yet. Planning on just putting enough water in it to keep the elements covered and running with low pressure steam in the jacket. I've read doing it this way only builds up ~5psi.

What is the input power you will be operating with?

It will be interesting to hear how fast you can heat a full boiler charge from power on to start of production.

Rules for set point tolerance on ASME relief valves is +/- 2 psi with setpoints below 70 psi. That means a 14 psi relief could lift at 12 psi. That limits the practical operating pressure to 8 psi, if your high pressure cut out switch around 10 psi.

Will you have a PID pressure control for the steam pressure?

[tjsc5f]

What is the input power you will be operating with?

11KW max to the elements, probably closer to 9KW into the wash with efficiency loses.

Will you have a PID pressure control for the steam pressure?

No, just a power controller. Will have a pressure gauge for monitoring the jacket pressure and relief valves etc.

[TwoSheds]

I figure that I take off approximately five gallons of low wines per typical ~15g stripping charge of "cleared beer". For a steam stripper, how much volume can we expect to take on in condensed steam>water in the secondary boiler (aka: thumper) during the course of a similar volume strip on fermented mash?

Thanks,
jonny

I get about the same as you. About 5 gal of low wines at 30-40% ABV from 13-14 gal of grainy, cloudy mash. I do most of the stuff Dancing4dan recommends probably because he mentioned them when I was learning and building. I find that some preheating, even just with a warming pad to bring it up 20-30 degrees F makes a big difference.

[Black Bull]

Double post

[Asparknz]

Is there an element port going into the inner vessel for if you want to boil regular like?

And where is the dump port positioned? Is it nicely centered for easy cleaning?

Looks like a nice boiler

[The Booze Pipe]

Is there an element port going into the inner vessel for if you want to boil regular like?

And where is the dump port positioned? Is it nicely centered for easy cleaning?

Looks like a nice boiler

No, no direct heating element, just a steam jacket. The 2" dump port is located on the side; it seems to drain nicely.

[The Booze Pipe]

Received the boiler yesterday! It turned out pretty nice. Only one or two minor complaints. It's setup with a sight glass, and 1 bar prv, and a copper dome.

[Wooday]

...Only one or two minor complaints...

I want to hear the nit-picking, please.

[Salt Must Flow]

Yes, minor complaints need voiced.

That giant glass port is awesome.

[Deplorable]

That's damned sexy!

[shadylane]

I had to look a couple times to figure out the two heating elements ports.
The reflection on the shinny boiler of the tri-clamps had me confused.

[The Booze Pipe]

As far as complaints... they sent the light-weight cheaper tri-clamps... the ones that get rough to tighten the tighter they get. But so far the biggest complaint is with the castors I ordered. They built it with only three small (1 or 1.5") castors, two of which swivel & lock, but the third is fixed. It makes it awkward to scoot around and also creates a tipping point. It's partly my fault because I did not give specifics.

Nothing is tested yet so I won't get too far into it. I never planned on wheeling the thing around once fully assembled with a column. But we'll see how she goes once full of fluids.

Otherwise its a beautifully crafted machine. I'm stoked on how the copper dome turned out, very nice welds. Maybe more complaints to come as I get more into it, but really, nothing is perfect.

[Salt Must Flow]

Yeah OakStills clamps do suck. They are 'light duty' clamps. I really wish they listed 'heavy duty' clamps on their site for a higher price. They would sell like hot cakes. I found a pic online showing the difference between light duty, heavier duty, heavy duty and super duty clamps look like. I can't find the pic.

You should be able to replace the casters right? Can you add a 4th caster?

EDIT: I know of one thing you could do! You could remove all the casters, cut a piece of 3/4" plywood (large disk) as a base for the boiler to attach to using the 3 caster brackets. Now attach 4 or more swiveling casters to the underside of the plywood base.

[OtisT]

Having three casters can be nice because it is easier to setup on an uneven floor. Maybe consider a way to widen the stance of those three? With four the column can be tippy if your floor is uneven.

[Salt Must Flow]

Having three casters can be nice because it is easier to setup on an uneven floor. Maybe consider a way to widen the stance of those three? With four the column can be tippy if your floor is uneven.

I was told that if the floor is not even, all four wheels will be stable within a 1/4 turn of the boiler.

[NormandieStill]

I was told that if the floor is not even, all four wheels will be stable within a 1/4 turn of the boiler.

Nah. Maths says otherwise. But your plywood base idea would work just as well with 3 castors as with 4.

[squigglefunk]

SEXY LIL THANG

[The Booze Pipe]

Yeah OakStills clamps do suck. They are 'light duty' clamps. I really wish they listed 'heavy duty' clamps on their site for a higher price. They would sell like hot cakes. I found a pic online showing the difference between light duty, heavier duty, heavy duty and super duty clamps look like. I can't find the pic.

You should be able to replace the casters right? Can you add a 4th caster?

EDIT: I know of one thing you could do! You could remove all the casters, cut a piece of 3/4" plywood (large disk) as a base for the boiler to attach to using the 3 caster brackets. Now attach 4 or more swiveling casters to the underside of the plywood base.

Very creative thinking Salt! It's something I'll address later if need be. First thing is to get it up and running... I'm not sure if they built it to the specs I requested... thicker 3mm walls, and a 1bar PRV so I can run steam pressure in the jacket. They sent only a .02mpa relief valve... soooo

[shadylane]

First thing is to get it up and running... I'm not sure if they built it to the specs I requested... thicker 3mm walls, and a 1bar PRV so I can run steam pressure in the jacket. They sent only a .02mpa relief valve... soooo

"and comes with a 4.25psi (.03MPa) PRV "

I'd run it with the .02mpa PRV to see if it's too slow.
Does the pot have a agitator?