Headspace in boiler for stripping and spirit run

[PalCabral]

Hiya distillers.

I am wondering how much headspace I need to have in my boiler for a stripping run to avoid foaming and puking problems? And how much headspace should I have for a spirit run? I am assuming it is different ratios for stripping runs and spirit runs. My boiler is 8 gallons/30L.

Also, would the headspace needed be different depending on if its a sugar mash, all grain beer or fruit wine/cider?

/Pal

[Dathhu]

Simplest answer is... It depends...

Lots of variables in your questions...

Sugar wash, run it as fast as your system can handle. Nothing much else should be in there to cause any foam ups.

Anything beyond that, be it grain, molasses, fruit... they all have different properties. Proteins, fats, unfermentable carbs can all cause some foaming and puking.

Is there anything in the mix that can burn in your still? How is your still run? Fire, exposed elements, concealed elements, Bain Marie, thumper?

What is your wine/beer/wash made of?

If it's bone dry wine, probably not a lot. If it's molasses rum, probably more than you think. Grain somewhere in the middle, but it all still depends on your rig and how clear the end ferment is.

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As for the spirit run, unless you've had a bunch of puke into it, you don't need much headspace.

Hell, have a crack. You'll find out how your rig works best by trying it yourself.

[Dathhu]

I know at the start of the journey, if I wasted 25L of sugar wash I would have been devastated. But now I know it's cheap compared to other ingredients.

Get in, get your hands dirty and try it. Best way to learn and find out if you're doing anything wrong.

If this all sounds like a lot, probably read up a little more

[Bolverk]

As others have said... it depends.

A good enough rule of thumb...
Stripping 20% of your boiler volume
Spirit 10% of your boiler volume

If you have the ability to put a sight glass at the base of your riser/column this will help so you can see if you're starting to push your beer/wine/wash up the riser/column.

[OtisT]

+1 to what bloverk wrote.

Re: Stripping run.
I typically run with 12 to 13 gallons of AG beer in a 15 gallon boiler. I have a 4” diameter riser with a sight glass and can see the foam rise. If/When the foam gets above the middle of my sight glass I turn down the power for a bit. The foam usually subsides after the first 20% of the run and I can turn the power back up to full. A little dab of butter of veggies oil will also help keep the foam down.

If you don’t have a sight glass you can see excessive foaming/puking by looking for color in your output distillate. Same solution: turn down the power and/or add a little deforming agent. Turn up the power when you think you are past the foam.

Re: Spirit run.
I’ve never had an issue with foaming on a spirit run.

[PalCabral]

Simplest answer is... It depends...

Lots of variables in your questions...

What is your wine/beer/wash made of?

Hell, have a crack. You'll find out how your rig works best by trying it yourself.

Thanks, D.

I was looking at your, and others', experience and tactics when it comes to planning the stripp run. I don't know how much mash to plan for. In a 8 gallon boiler, it makes a lot of difference if it's a 5 gallon boil, or a 4 or 6 gallon boil. I'm not sure, and there's no point for me standing there with 1 1/2 gallons of mash when I've filled the boiler. So I'm asking for your way of approaching the stripp run.

I am sure you're not just pouring in mash by random into the boiler every time you're going to do a stripp run, right? If you're going to stripp run a sugar mash, will you fill it to the rim, or do you leave 10% headspace? If you're doing an all grain, are you aiming at 75% or 60%? Or even as low as 50%. What's your best approach?

I will be doing sugar washes and all grain beers. Fruit will come in after the summer, with the sun and the glow, and hopefully with my growing experience. And with the help of experienced guys like yourself.

[PalCabral]

As others have said... it depends.

A good enough rule of thumb...
Stripping 20% of your boiler volume
Spirit 10% of your boiler volume

If you have the ability to put a sight glass at the base of your riser/column this will help so you can see if you're starting to push your beer/wine/wash up the riser/column.

Thanks, Bolverk.

Are you mostly using sugar or grains as your typical base? Or are your guidelines pretty much generic?

I don't have a sight glass planned - I was thinking of getting one of those shiny, but expensive, copper onion heads to help me cope with pukes. The sight glass option is a heck more affordable though. Thanks!

[PalCabral]

+1 to what bloverk wrote.

Re: Stripping run.
I typically run with 12 to 13 gallons of AG beer in a 15 gallon boiler. I have a 4” diameter riser with a sight glass and can see the foam rise. If/When the foam gets above the middle of my sight glass I turn down the power for a bit. The foam usually subsides after the first 20% of the run and I can turn the power back up to full. A little dab of butter of veggies oil will also help keep the foam down.

If you don’t have a sight glass you can see excessive foaming/puking by looking for color in your output distillate. Same solution: turn down the power and/or add a little deforming agent. Turn up the power when you think you are past the foam.

Re: Spirit run.
I’ve never had an issue with foaming on a spirit run.

Thanks, Otis.

I really wanted to avoid the puke coming in to my distillate altogether, and no, no sight glass. I was looking at only distilling at 60% of total capacity when I am using grains but that seems to be too conservative. Veggie oil, huh, or are you always seeing pukes but able to catch it before it's gone too far (because of the sight glass or similar)?

[NZChris]

A bit of puke doesn't matter as long as it isn't a sugar wash neutral. I installed a shooter valve, so have the option of putting any puke back into the pot. If it pukes, I turn the heat off for one minute, then back on with slightly less power.

My rule of thumb is to 2/3 fill the boiler. More for sugar washes, less for rum and grains. A knob of butter to tame rum and grain puke.

It is normal to do more than one strip stripping run with a pot still and puke can be tossed into the next strip. By the time you do the third or fourth strip, you should know how much power you can get away with.

[Bolverk]

Are you mostly using sugar or grains as your typical base? Or are your guidelines pretty much generic?

I don't have a sight glass planned - I was thinking of getting one of those shiny, but expensive, copper onion heads to help me cope with pukes. The sight glass option is a heck more affordable though. Thanks!

This is mostly generic, some things foam more than others

A 20% head space "should" be fine for most things... as long as you're not pushing a shit ton of power into the boiler.

You could put a sight glass under the onion if you want the onion, either way it's still nice to be able to see what happening right at the top of the boiler.

[shadylane]

I am wondering how much headspace I need to have in my boiler for a stripping run to avoid foaming and puking problems? And how much headspace should I have for a spirit run? I am assuming it is different ratios for stripping runs and spirit runs. My boiler is 8 gallons/30L.

Also, would the headspace needed be different depending on if its a sugar mash, all grain beer or fruit wine/cider?

How much puking is a problem depends on many variables.
The worst is stripping a mash made from green malt.
The 2nd worst is liquid malt extract or dried malt extract.
A cleared sugar wash strip is the least likely to foam up and puke than a mash.
A spirit run is always less likely to foam up than stripping runs .

There's many ways to skin the cat.
My preference is to heat the boiler charge until it starts to foam up, then turn the head down and let it simmer.
Give it time then slowly start to heat it up again. After a couple cycles of heat and wait, the mash will quit wanting to foam up and puke.

[JustinNZ]

Good advice.

I can easily get a puke from a 70L pot still filled to 45L (65% full) of all molasses wash at 2000w if I’m casual and forget the oil, or forget to turn it off briefly just as it begins dripping consistently (and a shake helps too I think). But I’m gonna re-distil anyway so it’s not a problem.

But, for rum-heads, when I use a ‘refined’ molasses like Bundaberg (Aus) or Chelsea (NZ) which have more sugar and less solids than farm-store blackstrap it won’t puke. Or even get close, really.

But yeah, rum if all-molasses and blackstrap 60% full probably a good idea - and use the tricks mentioned above and keep an eye on it.

Spirit run - if all low-wines - I fill it pretty much all the way. 90%.

Hope that helps.

[PalCabral]

How much puking is a problem depends on many variables.
The worst is stripping a mash made from green malt.
The 2nd worst is liquid malt extract or dried malt extract.
A cleared sugar wash strip is the least likely to foam up and puke than a mash.
A spirit run is always less likely to foam up than stripping runs .

There's many ways to skin the cat.
My preference is to heat the boiler charge until it starts to foam up, then turn the head down and let it simmer.
Give it time then slowly start to heat it up again. After a couple cycles of heat and wait, the mash will quit wanting to foam up and puke.

It's the all grain mash stripping runs I am most worried about. I don't have a sight glass so I am worried I will only find out about the puking until it's at the spout. I was thinking of getting, as my first upgrade, a shiny onion head, which I believe could remedy pukes, but perhaps a sight glass is the better upgrade option?

But, for rum-heads, when I use a ‘refined’ molasses like Bundaberg (Aus) or Chelsea (NZ) which have more sugar and less solids than farm-store blackstrap it won’t puke. Or even get close, really.

But yeah, rum if all-molasses and blackstrap 60% full probably a good idea - and use the tricks mentioned above and keep an eye on it.

Spirit run - if all low-wines - I fill it pretty much all the way. 90%.

Hope that helps.

Can't get hold of molasses or blackstrap in my parts, except expensive 250mm jars in health shops, unfortunately. There's sugar beet industry in the south of Sweden but I've never seen any sugar beet molasses for sale like you can in other countries. Need to check what happens with it - my guess is it's all sold to industrial distilleries to make fuel.

[jonnys_spirit]

For AG strips I fill my 16g boiler almost to the top - leaving maybe 3-4" headroom for expansion as it come up to temp. Oil or butter to help tame foaming and I use a 3" riser>helmet>sight-glass above the boiler to contain any foam. The sight-glass gives adequate time to reduce power as I see it frothing up. I also do a long slow fores extraction which I feel helps with reducing the hot break. Once I have a jar of fores I'll increase power an monitor for foam reaching up to the sight glass until I can hit it with full power and strip hard. I could probably charge it with a gallon or so less and run it hard from the get go..

If I miss a puke on a strip run I just roll back power, keep running, and inch it back up as I can without puking. Spirit run will clean it up. Always keeping an eye on it though.

Cheers,
jonny

[PalCabral]

Thanks, Jonny! Maybe I am worrying too much about it. Cheers.

[NZChris]

Thanks, Jonny! Maybe I am worrying too much about it. Cheers.

The first time a rum strip puked for me I shut the still down, took the head off and poured it back in.

Now, I hold back some fresh rum wash to add to the spirit run, which would be far more wash than would ever be carried over in a normal puke.

[PalCabral]

For AG strips I fill my 16g boiler almost to the top - leaving maybe 3-4" headroom for expansion as it come up to temp. Oil or butter to help tame foaming and I use a 3" riser>helmet>sight-glass above the boiler to contain any foam. The sight-glass gives adequate time to reduce power as I see it frothing up. I also do a long slow fores extraction which I feel helps with reducing the hot break. Once I have a jar of fores I'll increase power an monitor for foam reaching up to the sight glass until I can hit it with full power and strip hard. I could probably charge it with a gallon or so less and run it hard from the get go..

If I miss a puke on a strip run I just roll back power, keep running, and inch it back up as I can without puking. Spirit run will clean it up. Always keeping an eye on it though.

Cheers,
jonny

Just out of curiosity, Jonny, how long does a strip run take for you following your regimen, given you don't have any pukes or unexpected stuff happening? Are you able to run two such runs in a day, or perhaps even a third?

[jonnys_spirit]

I can do two strips in a day - probably 1st HR for heatup, 2nd HR for fores, 3rd-4th HR to strip down to 0%abv off the spout (or 25-30%abv aggregate low wines)... 3-4hrs total for each strip in my case with a 16g boiler and a 5.5kw electric heating element..

If you have a pre-heater setup you could save time for each subsequent strip run and if you don't take a fores cut on your strip run you could start running full power sooner and less time...

Cheers!
-jonny

[Deplorable]

The time it takes depends on how much heat you put into the boiler, the temperature of the wash going in, and the volume.
My stripping runs take about 3.5 to 4 hours to strip 10 gallons in my 13 gallon boiler throwing about 4000 watts of power through the internal element. It takes about 35 to 40 minutes from power on to the first drips.
I do 2 stripping runs from my fermenter to give me about 5 to 6 gallons of low wines for my spirit run.
For spirit runs I apply the power slowly at first, increasing power as I get through the heads, and run faster through hearts. I run my spirit runs in about 6 hours from first drips to turning off the still.

[Twisted Brick]

I am wondering how much headspace I need to have in my boiler for a stripping run to avoid foaming and puking problems? And how much headspace should I have for a spirit run? I am assuming it is different ratios for stripping runs and spirit runs. My boiler is 8 gallons/30L.

Also, would the headspace needed be different depending on if its a sugar mash, all grain beer or fruit wine/cider?

How much puking is a problem depends on many variables.
The worst is stripping a mash made from green malt.
The 2nd worst is liquid malt extract or dried malt extract.
A cleared sugar wash strip is the least likely to foam up and puke than a mash.

Good point, Shady. The presence of unfermentables and proteins weigh heavily in foaming. Molasses, green malt and malt extract are big contributors but so are incomplete (for whatever reason) all-grain ferments. A ferment with a FG of 1.015 is more prone to foam than a ferment of .998.

I have always conducted a slow heatup and fores takeoff (ala Jonny) prior to a strip, but a thorough clearing of each ferment greatly reduces the potential for a puke, IMO. I don’t have a boil ball but do have a 3” sight glass and riser/still head and have never had a puke.