An easy low temperature corn mash with angel yeast yellow label

[Brewfiend]

I've decided I'm going to experiment with angel yeast yellow label. Making a multi generational corn and apricot mash with low amounts of sugar added.

I think I'll start with a 25l volume. I'm thinking something like 3.5kg of corn uncracked and 1.5kg of sugar and some vitamized apricots. I'll then let the corn sit on hot water for an hour and top up to 25l. I'm doing some research on using angel yeast so I will decide about pitching yeast and fermenting temperatures later. Would be interested in feedback from people who are using or want to use angel yeast yellow label.

I'd like to include a micronutrients source maybe wheat germ., or bran and Epsom salt. But I'll have to think about the flavour this will produce.

After the second generation I'll add 25% backset and feints to the subsequent generations. Each generation I'll remove 3/4 of the solids and replace them with fresh corn and apricots, sugar...


Cheers.

[Sporacle]

The Angel yeast will still need access to the starch in the corn to convert.
You will still need to gelatanise the corn, otherwise it's an over complicated version of a UJSSM.

[NZChris]

I usually manage to refrain from posting my experiments until I've had a positive result. That has saved me from embarrassment and from starting new internet 'Truths' and 'Chinese Whispers' more than a couple of times.

[Brewfiend]

The Angel yeast will still need access to the starch in the corn to convert.
You will still need to gelatanise the corn, otherwise it's an over complicated version of a UJSSM.

hmmm, I would grind it all in my ninja blender personally, then soak on hot water for an hour and blend with paint stirrer, but i thought i'd try without cracking the corn if that was at all possible... just to make it easier. I haven't tried angel yeast yet. anyway, i'm glad i asked for feedback, thanks.

[Brewfiend]

I usually manage to refrain from posting my experiments until I've had a positive result. That has saved me from embarrassment and from starting new internet 'Truths' and 'Chinese Whispers' more than a couple of times.

I'm glad i asked. I don't claim to have tried this before so there is no embarrassment. I am on here to learn from other peoples experience and speculation. I'm looking for feedback from people who are actually interested in the experiment.


I've already learned that I have to gelatinize the corn. this recipe is closer to succeeding than it was before. that's the point of this forum.

[elbono]

I've already learned that I have to gelatinize the corn. this recipe is closer to succeeding than it was before. that's the point of this forum.

I assume you haven't read the thread about YLAY from that statement. It is more like Saki than a corn mash. Gelatinizing isn't needed. Hot water + corn + YLAY = alcohol. I'm not sure how sugar and fruit will interact but the YLAY has molds that do the job of gelatinizing and malted grains.

I've used corn, rice and wheat and have gotten better yeilds with YLAY than other methods. I'm experimenting with conventional mashing methods to compare impact on flavor but eliminating the whole gelation/malt routine is the point of YLAY.
.

[Brewfiend]

I've already learned that I have to gelatinize the corn. this recipe is closer to succeeding than it was before. that's the point of this forum.

I assume you haven't read the thread about YLAY from that statement. It is more like Saki than a corn mash. Gelatinizing isn't needed. Hot water + corn + YLAY = alcohol. I'm not sure how sugar and fruit will interact but the YLAY has molds that do the job of gelatinizing and malted grains.

I've used corn, rice and wheat and have gotten better yeilds with YLAY than other methods. I'm experimenting with conventional mashing methods to compare impact on flavor but eliminating the whole gelation/malt routine is the point of YLAY.
.

Cool. No I hadn't seen that thread. I'll give it a read.

[Siva283]

Yellow Label braks down the corn and startch at room temp and turns it to sugar that the yeast ferment

[Nanacooks]

Love the YLAY on occasion. You still need to break the corn to access the starches as stated above. It doesn't have the ability to go through the coating. I too, have not tried it in conjunction with fruits, but it should work on them as any yeast would work on fruits. I wouldn't bother with a sugar addition unless you just need it to boost abv, but wait until the end to know if it is needed. You can probably get away with a higher grain/ water ratio even with using YLAY. Gelatinizing the corn isn't necessary, but softening it up has seemed to help speed the process a bit, As in a no boil mash method, then pitch the yeast when temps drop to range. One of the important factors I have found, is following the stirring recommendations called for on the package, especially in the early days. After that, there seems to be enough 'normal,' activity happening that things move easier or better, allowing the enzymes and yeast access to the starches. Lastly, YLAY likes it hot. It works at lower temps, but suuuuper slowly. Think bakers yeast temps for the most efficient usage and time. I have lots more playing to do with this stuff, but these are the results I have found from the times I have used it so far.

[Saltbush Bill]

One of the important factors I have found, is following the stirring recommendations called for on the package, especially in the early days. After that, there seems to be enough 'normal,' activity happening that things move easier or better, allowing the enzymes and yeast access to the starches. Lastly, YLAY likes it hot. It works at lower temps, but suuuuper slowly. Think bakers yeast temps for the most efficient usage and time.

You got that right Nanna Ive found the same things.

[Brewfiend]

Love the YLAY on occasion. You still need to break the corn to access the starches as stated above. It doesn't have the ability to go through the coating. I too, have not tried it in conjunction with fruits, but it should work on them as any yeast would work on fruits. I wouldn't bother with a sugar addition unless you just need it to boost abv, but wait until the end to know if it is needed. You can probably get away with a higher grain/ water ratio even with using YLAY. Gelatinizing the corn isn't necessary, but softening it up has seemed to help speed the process a bit, As in a no boil mash method, then pitch the yeast when temps drop to range. One of the important factors I have found, is following the stirring recommendations called for on the package, especially in the early days. After that, there seems to be enough 'normal,' activity happening that things move easier or better, allowing the enzymes and yeast access to the starches. Lastly, YLAY likes it hot. It works at lower temps, but suuuuper slowly. Think bakers yeast temps for the most efficient usage and time. I have lots more playing to do with this stuff, but these are the results I have found from the times I have used it so far.

Super psyched to try it. I have a heat belt so I can probably keep it up around 35 celcius. I'm going to blend the corn down to a fine powder with my ninja blender...

Some people have said it has a sake wine flavour so fruit might help mask that, right? Apricots are out of season... Maybe banana or pears

[Wildcats]

I've spent the last hour reading about this yeast. Sounds like I need to get some and try it out. Been thinking about using rice.... Sounds like this will do it with the enzymes already in with yeast.

[zed255]

The product will make some funky smells during the ferment, I suspect from the fungus that produces the enzymes, that settles out. You might even get some off putting smells from the strip run, and I don't suggest single runs, that aren't there in the spirit run. Give it a fair chance and it might surprise you. I did some corn, barley and oat whiskey that turned out nice after some ageing on wood. Makes a nice rice whiskey too.

[Garouda]

Angel Yeast Yellow label contains rhizopus. Rhizopus is a microorganism that produces enzymes like glucoamylase, at a normal temperature for fermentation 30-35°C whereby the usual glucoamylase works best at 62°C. I would recommend The Alcohol Textbook pages 16 and 20. Page 16 : read the paragraph related to the batch cooking system and backset stillage. Page 20 explains the working of Rhizozyme™, which is similar to what Angel Yeast is using, also have a look at table 5 : Table 5. Advantages of Rhizozyme™ over conventional glucoamylase
There's a sixth edition, but this one (4th) is free:https://edisciplinas.usp.br/pluginfile. ... 4%20Ed.pdf

[MooseMan]

Many people will appreciate that download link Garouda, it's a great resource for a distiller wanting to learn more of the practices the industry uses.

[quadra]

Thank you Garouda that is a really great resource. It is nice to have some more information on pH requirements.

[Garouda]

Many people will appreciate that download link Garouda, it's a great resource for a distiller wanting to learn more of the practices the industry uses.

THANKS. I would like to add that I already add a little amylase at the start of the gelatinisation process, as explained on page 16 of this book, this helps a lot to avoid a lumpy polenta in your mash tun (which by the way is also my fermenter).

[Garouda]

Thank you Garouda that is a really great resource. It is nice to have some more information on pH requirements.

My pleasure!
The purpose of this forum is to share experience and information with the community.

[Garouda]

As it looks like that the link I posted towards The Alcohol Textbook is corrupted, I uploaded some books in a Google Drive folder, the thread is here :
viewtopic.php?p=7800501#p7800501

[quadra]

Thank you Garouda that is a really great resource. It is nice to have some more information on pH requirements.

My pleasure!
The purpose of this forum is to share experience and information with the community.

thanks for the reminder! I was going to ask if you had access to another copy of that link as there are three items referenced on pg 21 that are missing.... but it looks like you have added some additional night table reading to my library

Edit: tables 15/16 and table 6 referenced on page 21 are missing in both copies posted in your selection of books post... not a big problem but if anyone has access to a newer edition I would be curious to see those.

[Garouda]

Edit: tables 15/16 and list 6 referenced on page 21 are missing in both copies posted in your selection of books post... not a big problem, but if anyone has access to a newer edition I would be curious to see those.

It seems that the two versions are the same, one might be heavier because I highlighted some parts of the text. About Table 6, indeed the text jumps from table 5 to table 7, but I do not see any empty space in the page layout... I checked the book at another location, same result; table 6, figures 15 and 16 are also missing. It's the last page of that chapter, and they may have decided to skip that information due to editing constraints. Each chapter looks like a research paper written by different people. There are two more recent editions, 5th and 6th, but I could not find a free download.