Which Angel to use

[jackfire57]

Angel am-1 or ag-2 yeast for whiskey,I’m confused

[NZChris]

After spending a few minutes on the Angel website, I doubt either will make poor whiskey/whisky. If you are doing a Scotch clone, use the one they recommend. If not, toss a coin to decide and try the other one next time. Keep good records as they will eventually be more valuable than other distillers opinions.

[VLAGAVULVIN]

Well-well-well, AM-1 can utilize:

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The same time, for AG-2 they have:

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Me thinks the 2nd one is very good for UJSSM.
While the 1st one has lotsa fungi enzymes in.

IMHO

[jackfire57]

Thank you

[Twisted Brick]

toss a coin to decide and try the other one next time. Keep good records as they will eventually be more valuable than other distillers opinions.

And since either one will work, you really can't make a wrong choice. It's small in the overall scheme of things...

[VLAGAVULVIN]

It's small in the overall scheme of things...

What would the "small grains" mean here, please? Kind of honey malt, crystal malt, roasted rye [malt] and so forth?

And... talking of the present day yeast. Let me make a couple of comments. Strains like Voss Kveik chop out fusels very thorougly and the D-53 strain has an impact of much more than 10%.

[Homebrewer11777]

Seems like distillers use it to mean everything except the corn, especially when referring to bourbon mash bill. More broadly I think it is literally cereal crops that have relatively small grains and so includes barley, wheat, rye, oats and rice.
https://4h.extension.illinois.edu/ways- ... all-grains

[scubatech]

That's what I always took it to mean. But what about modern bourbon mash bills that contain only heirloom corn and/or a small amount of oats?

[Homebrewer11777]

I think the idea of using heirloom corn is not embraced by the chart linked above. Historically corn is said to be a flavor component of white dog but also said to fade into neutral/sweetness with age.

I believe heirloom corn is newer strategy to try to differentiate craft product in an increasingly crowded market. My guess is any impact from selection of heirloom corn would have little impact on the portion of flavor attributed to the grain bill...2x as important as yeast, 1/2x as important as maturation process, somewhat more important than distillation technique.

I think that graph also assumes whatever mash bill, yeast selection and fermentation process, maturation strategy and distillation technique is appropriate for whiskey/bourbon and meets some level of professional standards.

[Twisted Brick]

And... talking of the present day yeast. Let me make a couple of comments. Strains like Voss Kveik chop out fusels very thorougly and the D-53 strain has an impact of much more than 10%.

This ratios in this chart are of course general and do not include things like yeast exceptions, 'boutique' grains or process differences etc. Recognizing that Four Roses produces several distinct bourbon expressions made of the same grain bill but relying on different yeasts for each one also challenges yeast's role represented on this chart.

I only listed the chart to encourage the OP to dive in.

[8Ball]

My guess is any impact from selection of heirloom corn would have little impact on the portion of flavor attributed to the grain bill.

I respectfully and earnestly call bull shit. I did 65% Bloody Butcher & 61% Wapsi Valley corn in my bourbon runs for the last two years respectfully. This year I’m using Minnesota 13 corn for my bourbon runs. I supplement the grain bills with an added 10% or so of regular yellow dent.
The Bloody provides a rich, earthy charector; the Wapsi Valley gives you a wonderfully semi-sweet & clean flavor; the Minnesota 13 is TBD, but equally promising. This is not to take anything away from the great flavor of yellow field corn that we all know & love. Heirloom corns do uniquely impact the flavor profile.

[Homebrewer11777]

Not my chart. Not my bullshit

I read the chart as a forced ranking of relative importance of different aspects of the process and likely predates the development of considerable interest in heirloom corn in the spirits community. Probably if the chart was being produced today they would just say Grist or Mash Bill for that quadrant.

[Twisted Brick]

I did 65% Bloody Butcher & 61% Wapsi Valley corn in my bourbon runs for the last two years respectfully. This year I’m using Minnesota 13 corn for my bourbon runs. I supplement the grain bills with an added 10% or so of regular yellow dent.
The Bloody provides a rich, earthy charector; the Wapsi Valley gives you a wonderfully semi-sweet & clean flavor; the Minnesota 13 is TBD, but equally promising.

Valuable stuff, 8Ball. My bourbons have all hovered around +70%. To get a noticeable contribution from 65% and even 61% makes me wanna try it.

[scubatech]

My last 2 were Jimmy Red and Amanda Palmer, both at 67%. Can't wait to try some Minnesota 13.

[VLAGAVULVIN]

Seems like distillers use it to mean everything except the corn, especially when referring to bourbon mash bill.

Thank you.

This ratios in this chart are of course general and do not include things like yeast exceptions, 'boutique' grains or process differences etc. Recognizing that Four Roses produces several distinct bourbon expressions made of the same grain bill but relying on different yeasts for each one also challenges yeast's role represented on this chart.

I only listed the chart to encourage the OP to dive in.

Thank you, too.

[VLAGAVULVIN]

Just a matter of my taste and my personal opinion. For me, this diagram should look more like the Mercedes Benz emblem. One sector stands for your fermentation skills. The second sector is distillation. And the third sector is blending of aged spirits. Back in the summer, I claimed that I had sufficiently mastered only 2 segments of our hobby. Based on the results of assembling drinks in December, I will have the audacity to claim that I have finally started to succeed in the third segment, and quite well. And it seems not to my friends. The matter is it seems finally to me. That moment when your drinks are not just "sipping-drinkable", but when their "nose" is stylistically distinctive! I just need to consolidate these skills. But so far there is nothing to do it from. Imma urgently put on mashing: Caramel Corn, Rye, Speyside-ish. And a bit later - the Islay style of the last remnants of my Crisp Ultra 80 PPM (f**k those sanctions).

P.S. / added :: the Speyside-ish has just got the status "mashed", hellyeah

[jackfire57]

Thanks

[Swedish Pride]

image.png

Just a matter of my taste and my personal opinion. For me, this diagram should look more like the Mercedes Benz emblem. One sector stands for your fermentation skills. The second sector is distillation. And the third sector is blending of aged spirits. Back in the summer, I claimed that I had sufficiently mastered only 2 segments of our hobby. Based on the results of assembling drinks in December, I will have the audacity to claim that I have finally started to succeed in the third segment, and quite well. And it seems not to my friends. The matter is it seems finally to me. That moment when your drinks are not just "sipping-drinkable", but when their "nose" is stylistically distinctive! I just need to consolidate these skills. But so far there is nothing to do it from. Imma urgently put on mashing: Caramel Corn, Rye, Speyside-ish. And a bit later - the Islay style of the last remnants of my Crisp Ultra 80 PPM (f**k those sanctions).

P.S. / added :: the Speyside-ish has just got the status "mashed", hellyeah

Fair play for mastering any part of this hobby, never mind most of it.

I screw up less than I did when I was new but I still screw up all the time.

What's this 80ppm stuff you speak off!?!.
Asking for a friend

[TxBrewing]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08X73CJ9X/?c ... _lig_dp_it

I think this is the right stuff.

I want to do a test run of:

Cracked feed corn (5.5lb)
Distillers Malt (2.75lb)
Malted rye (2lb)
Malted oats (0.5lb)

and see what the gravity comes out to be, as a basis for making this my basic mash set up for the spring and summer

[VLAGAVULVIN]

I screw up less than I did when I was new but I still screw up all the time.

So do I

What's this 80ppm stuff you speak off!?!.
Asking for a friend

Lol, here we are: CRISP Scottish Ultra 80 Peat.
100% of the wort. M-1 yeast / up to 8% AbV.
Double pot-stilled. American White oaked.

[Swedish Pride]

Can only get 55ppm stuff here, I need to contact the homebrew store to see if the they can get some of this 80ppm stuff in.

I go 90+% of grain bill, need to get them oats in.
Bakers , double pot , deeep in tails and on/in American oak

[VLAGAVULVIN]

Can only get 55ppm stuff here, I need to contact the homebrew store to see if the they can get some of this 80ppm stuff in.

.

.
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I go 90+% of grain bill, need to get them oats in.
Bakers , double pot , deeep in tails and on/in American oak

A couple of hints more then... You could use some sweet waters (after your strips) for proofing down the product. Also it's worth to use backset and sweet waters in the next batch(es). Once upon a time I even added a wee qty. of clear wort for dilution: got a bit hazy but after all successfully filtered it.

Cheers.

[Swedish Pride]

Nice one, crisp malt doesn't even have 80 ppm on their website.

This may be why

Yes, big fan of sweet water, but when I run it my cuts end of around the 55-60 mark so no proofing down needed before the barrel.

Wort in barrel eh? Never tried that, done backset but wasn't keen on it, may have to do a small sample of this next time

[NormandieStill]

Nice one, crisp malt doesn't even have 80 ppm on their website.

This may be why

It's not standard but they'll do it order I think. That suggests that the importer really wanted to get some phenols into Russia!

[VLAGAVULVIN]

Nice one, crisp malt doesn't even have 80 ppm on their website.
...
This may be why

Things are getting just a li’l bit scary…

when I run it my cuts end of around the 55-60 mark so no proofing down needed

This way you may get something like Ardbeg-10 with lotsa wet cardboard in, regardless of aging. If you like it - no problem. But please, try to cut it at 63% AbV but then get sudden additional hearts in between 30% and 20%. No cardboards, but a fair amount of peat one may get there! And try to catch a difference between 1st and 2nd runs: imo, the 25%-strips are more reach than the same AbV from the spout of the spirit run. As for my nose, the 1st run’s deep tales are all about peat while the 2nd run’s tales are more bread-ish.

Wort in barrel eh?

Nah-nah. You’d better make a “scent” in a separate jar. It’s way easier to remove cloudiness from a tiny quantity rather from the entire barrel.

It's not standard but they'll do it order I think. That suggests that the importer really wanted to get some phenols into Russia!

Till Feb.-2022, exactly this kind of malt was very widespread in our narrow circle.