Looking for a photo of iStill's sieve plate

[Tammuz]

Couldn't find any photos online,I need a photo to help me understand it.

[LWTCS]

Did you ask the Eyestill people?

What specifically don't you understand about sieve plate designs?

Or, are you somehow confused by a publicized / advertised description of that particular component?

[SW_Shiner]

There are quite a few threads here on the iStill. Odin was quite actie for a while during development it appears. There may be a picture or written details somewhere but i'm pretty sure he was careful to keep any details related to his column designs to himself. The website doesn't appear to offer them anywhere. (I tried to configure a plated column on the iStill site, but the link just links to the same page the link is on.)

[Saltbush Bill]

i'm pretty sure he was careful to keep any details related to his column designs to himself.

Unless I've missed something that pretty much sums it up.

[Tammuz]

Someone must have bought one recently. If you want to sell something hiding it in a black box doesn't help much.

[SW_Shiner]

It does if you don't wish others to copy your work.

Found a pic on iStill site. Whether or not its his design i am unaware of.

https://istill.com/blog/2024-09-24-what ... ubble-caps

[Tammuz]

That was a good find but neither the bubble plate or the perforate plate is what I was questioning. I'll add a bad photo of the sieve plate he had running in a video. I can't see how his downcomer works for him

[SW_Shiner]

Its a piece of SS tube bent into a U shape to create the vapour lock. Makes it a 1 piece downcommer rather than joining elbows to make a U, or attaching a larger end cap to a smaller diameter pipe creating a 'bowl'

[Tammuz]

Seems to hold a lot of liquid, people worry about a few mls left in valves. It would seem that a copper end cap has a better chance of boiling off what's in them. I first thought he was pulling off product with the tubes then I saw where they were just u shaped tubes.

[LWTCS]

It does if you don't wish others to copy your work.

Found a pic on iStill site. Whether or not its his design i am unaware of.

https://istill.com/blog/2024-09-24-what ... ubble-caps

Hmm?
Ultimately it's about operating range. Some operators like a wider range. Some evidently do not.
The data speaks for itself with respect to the above comment.
As far as the assertion that one system produces a better outcome for a specific spirit? Way too many variables to make blanket statements about hair splitting design details.

Ultimately it is the operator that masters his equipment and processes to make the best thing, or not.

Yes some tools can make life easier. But look around and see what equipment is used to make your favorite thing.

[SW_Shiner]

It does if you don't wish others to copy your work.

Found a pic on iStill site. Whether or not its his design i am unaware of.

https://istill.com/blog/2024-09-24-what ... ubble-caps

Hmm?
Ultimately it's about operating range. Some operators like a wider range. Some evidently do not.
The data speaks for itself with respect to the above comment.
As far as the assertion that one system produces a better outcome for a specific spirit? Way too many variables to make blanket statements about hair splitting design details.

Ultimately it is the operator that masters his equipment and processes to make the best thing, or not.

Yes some tools can make life easier. But look around and see what equipment is used to make your favorite thing.

Your comment confused me for a little bit. I thought i had just linked the picture separately. I pasted the wrong url. My bad.

[shadylane]

That's some big ass holes, looks like the sieve plate had to run at one speed. Wide the fuck open.
To get it loaded, I bet it would be necessity to first flood the top plate then temporarily kill the power.
As in flushing the toilet to get enough reflux to fill the lower downcomer traps before everything drained away.
Plan B would be to stick a garden hose in the top of the column and blast it with water to prefill the traps.

On a side note I see the logic of the U shaped downcomers. On start up, the weeping holes above the open end would be dripping into the downcomer outlet and helping to fill them.

[shadylane]

I can't see how his downcomer works for him

[Saltbush Bill]

The old J style downcommers were quite normal / common once..... lots of home builds used them.
Nothing new or fancy there.

[LWTCS]

One of the benefits at the commercial scale with perfs is that they are highly resistant to fouling and very easy to clean on a commercial continuous column.
A darn sight cheaper to manufacture also.
The J bend removes some of that convience as solids can accumulate in the trap.

If you're never running solids it matters not. If you're never running a continuous system, it maters less.

@shady, yeah in practice I wonder how much of a pita it is to get all the traps on a 5 or 6 plate column primed with all of those big ass perfs all over the plate?

[shadylane]

Most likely the plate being shown is a prototype.
Just guessing, it looks like the open area of the holes is around 20% maybe a little more of the plate area.
That's definitely pushing the upper limit of good hydraulics and being user friendly.

On a side note, I disagree with iStill's marketing statement that bubble caps are more prone to entrainement than sieve plates.

[LWTCS]

Most likely the plate being shown is a prototype.
maybe even a decoy in order to protect his IP?
Just guessing, it looks like the open area of the holes is around 20% maybe a little more of the plate area.
That's definitely pushing the upper limit of good hydraulics and being user friendly.



On a side note, I disagree with iStill's marketing statement that bubble caps are more prone to entrainement than sieve plates.

If that is so, I would say that is more to do with operator error, imo.

[shadylane]

Maybe the comparison was of bubble caps vs sieve based on being driven at sieve plate speed.
Even then I disagree about entrainment because caps blow vapor horizontally into the reflux and sieves blow strait up.

Just brain storming and thinking about alternative ways for making seive plates work better.
Instead of a downcomer and trap, use weirs and have the reflux flow across the sieve plate.

Having said that.
My preference is a big enough diameter plate with multiple bubble caps driven gently at the take off wanted.
Sieve plates are between bubble caps and packing.
Kinda like a bat, it's nether a rat nor a bird and can do none of the best of either.

[LWTCS]

Here is a decent article that discusses valve trays as an alternative.

https://thepetrosolutions.com/types-of- ... n-columns/

Drinking at the moment so having a hard time finding an example of sieves with the little " roof top" that blows vapor horizontally. This example is a tray that gets punched / pressed out. Can't remember what this type of plate is called? But I'm sure there is a post buried in the forum somewhere that discusses all of the above. But probably not cost effective for the average hobby enthusiast.

Googe has successfully experimented with multiple plate designs. Maybe he'll chime?

In any case, the more common sieve tray has the least impressive turn down ratio. In otherwords the least amount of operating range. That by the way is not to imply that with the optimal geometry based on power input that sieves cannot provide good separation at modest power input.

Anyway, just babbling is all.

[LWTCS]

Ah, here is is.
Fixed valve tray

[shadylane]

Ah, here is is.
Fixed valve tray

Damn, I'm glad you found it. I was justabout to start a long search.
I wonder about how the orientation of the stamped slits needs to be to the reflux flow?
In other words, should the vapor blow into the reflux flowing towards it or blow down stream?
I'm guessing it would blow upstream.

Now my mind starts thinking about how to do this style of stamped slit plate on the 4" to 6 inch diameter?

[LWTCS]

I feel like a super similar shape can be punched by grinding a cold chisel on an angle and welding on a "stop" at desired depth.
Problem is I don't know exactly how to set up the backer plate to ensure the punch is in alignment with its corresponding recess with out turning the thing into project that costs money.

[Bushman]

Before retiring I had 2 CNC machines in my class. I built my dephlagmater on the machine. Where I am going with this is if your local school has a metal shop they are always looking for projects and if you provide the material and a drawing with measurements it is a great project for one of the students. (They don’t need to know what it is for).

[shadylane]

I'll add a bad photo of the sieve plate he had running in a video. I can't see how his downcomer works for him

Here's the video.
It's difficult to see the action because the glass is a little foggy.
But I see weepage and very little draining from the downcomers.

[LWTCS]

His interpretation of perfs is,,,,candy coated imo.

Couple things: smaller plate spacings at the hobby scale has more to do with helping hobby guys with low ceiling height get their plate count increased given the limit of the average residential ceiling height.
The shorter spacings are not as critical when the turn down ratio of BCs are employed since BCs can be run with less power when the open area on the plates are equal.

As a general rule, any plate system with wider plate spacings will provide better hydraulic behavior. Nothing to do with perfs vs BCs at all.

Then for him to say that BCs are " lower performance " is an incomplete and misrepresented assessment.
It is well documented that BCs have a wider operating range than perfs relative to available active area on the plates.

[Saltbush Bill]

I'd agree with most of that, Larry he's twisting it to suit his own purposes.

[Tammuz]

So no comments on his downcomer acting as a coldfinger,his increase in suction, and his anti- entrainment device.
I've only seen one sieve plate column operating. It had 6% opening,with 6 1/2" spacing. With 5 plates bubbling I never noticed liquid or bubbles hitting to plate above. But that is a very limited experience.
He's a different type of salesman, more Carney then a car salesman. His anti copper stance is were he lost me.

[LWTCS]

So no comments on his downcomer acting as a coldfinger,his increase in suction, and his anti- entrainment device.
I've only seen one sieve plate column operating. It had 6% opening,with 6 1/2" spacing. With 5 plates bubbling I never noticed liquid or bubbles hitting to plate above. But that is a very limited experience.
He's a different type of salesman, more Carney then a car salesman. His anti copper stance is were he lost me.

I wasn't going to go there.