Maturation of rum without oaking

[PalCabral]

Hi Rum makers.

I've read a lot posts on the forum where I get the impression that it's quite common to first mature rum without oak to let flavors develop, before deciding when and how to oak the rum. Maybe it's a misinterpretation from my part but it kind of make sense considering the complex flavor profile that some rums have coming off the still. So my questions are simple:

Do you mature rum before adding oak?

1. If you do, what is the positive development you are after, for how long do you mature the spirit, and do you do it differently if the rum is destined to be white or dark?

2. If you don't mature rums before adding oak, do you consume the white rum immediately, do you filter the rum at all, and what do you look for to see that the rum is ready for consumption?

3. Dilution before bottling. How do you do that? Is it a process over days, weeks or months, or all in one go? Do you have a preferred bottling strength and why?

[NZChris]

Really??? I don't recall reading any and would guess it was a misinterpretation.

[Saltbush Bill]

I don't recall ever seeing anything like that either, want to put up a few links?
EDIT,
I just went hunting through some old bottles.
This is white Rum made using the SBB recipe. 8-9 years ago the bottle was full in the beginning, over that time I've had the odd sample and made a few cocktails using it.
Over that time I've not noticed it change much, it may be a little smoother than it once was but that's about all.
That bottle was cut from the heart of the hearts at the time of distillation.
I've seen and read things that suggest that spirits do change and improve over time when stored in glass. I'll try and find a couple of links if I can.
Maybe it's best that you try for your self.
Link to "Resting Spirits ~~~~>>> https://issuu.com/artisanspiritmag/docs ... sue008_web
If you get that to open shift to pages 30,31,32

[Yummyrum]

I’ll third the last two comments . I really have no idea where you got that impression .

The only way to age Rum is to stick it in a barrel a soon as you can start . Failing that , at least stick it in a bottle with some Oak staves ( Dominos) until you have enough to fill your barrel .
80% of Rum flavour profile comes from the Barrel aging .

Personally , I think white Rum ( stuff destined for Oak aging to become a Drinkable Brown Rum ) is not worth drinking . … Some might disagree .It is Rough and doesn't represent what it will become in a year or three in a barrel.

However , when I think of White Rum , I think of Bacardi . Or stuff that is run through a reflux still that produces a very light flavour .
Sure , that doesn’t need to be Oak aged to make it drinkable ( although Bacardi do and then filter the stuff though multiple charcoals )

So that makes me wonder , is that the sort of Rum you are thinking about ? A very subtle almost Neutral Rum ?

As for dilution . I always bring mine straight down to 40%ABV when I bottle it . Nothing I have in my Bar is higher than that . I want any visitor to know what their Blood alcohol limit is and measure all drinks .

So yes , I just immediately dilute . Never have any issues with Saponification . Tails is what makes Rum horrible . So if you keep tails out of Rum , there is no dilution issues .

[MooseMan]

Disclaimer, I have probably less than 1% of the rum experience of the last 3 posters, so I'm just adding my opinion for completeness.

I bottled a tiny bit of my first 2 rums white, and have never revisited either bottle after the first time.

I age all mine in gallon jugs with 4 toasted staves in, but I always do something a little quirky with at least one jug. Infused and re-toasted staves work really well, think cola/red wine/molasses/red fruit juices etc.

I find 5-6 months is when it starts to improve noticeably and I can enjoy it from then on with a coke or orange juice.

Proofing is with RO and is done on the day I pull what's needed from the aging vessel.

[Bolverk]

Maturation comes from micro and macro oxidation of the spirit, in a brown spirit this happens through the barrel breathing, in a white spirit this can happen in a stainless or glass vessel by simply shaking the jug then venting the cap every once in a while to alow the exchange of new air.

You could mature a spirit on glass before oaking it if your like me that doesn't like a lot of oakyness. Or say in a small barrel the maturation/oaking curves don't line up well, so you end up pulling the spirit out of the barrel early to let it finish maturing.

[Tammuz]

I have read where distillery's hold new made rum and vodka in stainless steel tanks to meld for a few months before barreling and bottling their product. I don't understand the vodka part but I can see rum finishing it's chemical reaction as it rests in the stainless steel containers.

[fiery creations]

I thought it had been discussed ad nauseam here and the consensus was that white spirits do age considerably, and there was a difference between aging and oaking

[PalCabral]

So that makes me wonder , is that the sort of Rum you are thinking about ? A very subtle almost Neutral Rum ?

No, I am all about the flavors. The white unoaked rum I was thinking about is the Clairin from Haiti, which is a flavor bomb compared to most white rums I know of. But the Clairin is a good example of a rum that is often, maybe even generally, matured for up to six months before consumed. I would assume a home made Clairin would similarly benefit from a stabilization period.

The white(ish) Havanna Club is a three year old and the beforementioned Bacardi is oak aged before stripped by filtration, which I can only assume is for the benefit of maturation, not oaking (as they filter out the oak taste and color).

As for dilution . I always bring mine straight down to 40%ABV when I bottle it . Nothing I have in my Bar is higher than that . I want any visitor to know what their Blood alcohol limit is and measure all drinks .

So yes , I just immediately dilute . Never have any issues with Saponification . Tails is what makes Rum horrible . So if you keep tails out of Rum , there is no dilution issues .

Good advise there! I will remember to not get too greedy!

[PalCabral]

I've seen and read things that suggest that spirits do change and improve over time when stored in glass. I'll try and find a couple of links if I can.
Maybe it's best that you try for your self.
Link to "Resting Spirits ~~~~>>> https://issuu.com/artisanspiritmag/docs ... sue008_web
If you get that to open shift to pages 30,31,32
20250210_210108.jpg

Really interesting article, Bill. I' ve read something similar many years ago, it was also related to eau de vie production, but in Alsace. The article makes note about the need to make head room and have the right (not too high) proof - something I will take with me. Thanks!

[PalCabral]

I don't recall ever seeing anything like that either, want to put up a few links?

I had to go back and look, and I think it was this post that got me thinking about it, but I may totally have misinterpreted Dougmatt's post here. Reading it again I see he could've meant something different:

Aging: plan to keep 750 ml white to drink early, age the rest 1 year before sampling anything on oak, and trying to decide which barrels to use….

I saw another post with a similar view in one of the Panela threads.

[IAmPistolPete]

I have 3 smaller barrels that range from 6liter to 2gal that I use for my rums. I got them from the bar I used to work at & have been used well over a dozen times each by now. They breathe like Bolverk talked about but have a neutral "oak influence" so less worry about higher proofs. Works great for my panela rums to keep the more delicate flavor profile & for molly's I add a small handful of cubes to help balance the funk. About 6 months is when it comes into it's own & when I start drawing off bottles, but if you can hold off til a year it's wonderful. When I'm done with my 5g bourbon barrel I'd like to start a longer-term sequential solera system.

[PalCabral]

Maturation comes from micro and macro oxidation of the spirit, in a brown spirit this happens through the barrel breathing, in a white spirit this can happen in a stainless or glass vessel by simply shaking the jug then venting the cap every once in a while to alow the exchange of new air.

You could mature a spirit on glass before oaking it if your like me that doesn't like a lot of oakyness. Or say in a small barrel the maturation/oaking curves don't line up well, so you end up pulling the spirit out of the barrel early to let it finish maturing.

I like oak in my spirits but I have in the past managed to over-oak some spirits. The oak flavor and coloring developed much faster than I anticipated and my Brandy was more or less spoiled. So I rather want to "under-oak" and oak for longer time, given of course that there is aging/maturation/positive improvement of the spirit itself. Shaking and "ventilating" seems to be common ways to create some positive oxidation.

[PalCabral]

I have 3 smaller barrels that range from 6liter to 2gal that I use for my rums. I got them from the bar I used to work at & have been used well over a dozen times each by now. They breathe like Bolverk talked about but have a neutral "oak influence" so less worry about higher proofs. Works great for my panela rums to keep the more delicate flavor profile & for molly's I add a small handful of cubes to help balance the funk. About 6 months is when it comes into it's own & when I start drawing off bottles, but if you can hold off til a year it's wonderful. When I'm done with my 5g bourbon barrel I'd like to start a longer-term sequential solera system.

You don't experience over-oaking when you age as long as a year in the barrel? I have a 3l barrel and it swamped the liquor in just a couple of weeks. I have hardly used it since and I am seriously thinking of breaking it up and use the staves instead. Staves in a glass jar I can control, plus I get to decide what toast level and char I want. Panela is on my to-do list. Will get there soon, as fast as I can get my inlaws out of my distillery room

[PalCabral]

I age all mine in gallon jugs with 4 toasted staves in, but I always do something a little quirky with at least one jug. Infused and re-toasted staves work really well, think cola/red wine/molasses/red fruit juices etc.

Infusing the staves in Cola seems very innovative. I'd go as far as Sherry, you've put me in your shadow!

[IAmPistolPete]

I have 3 smaller barrels that range from 6liter to 2gal that I use for my rums. I got them from the bar I used to work at & have been used well over a dozen times each by now. They breathe like Bolverk talked about but have a neutral "oak influence" so less worry about higher proofs. Works great for my panela rums to keep the more delicate flavor profile & for molly's I add a small handful of cubes to help balance the funk. About 6 months is when it comes into it's own & when I start drawing off bottles, but if you can hold off til a year it's wonderful. When I'm done with my 5g bourbon barrel I'd like to start a longer-term sequential solera system.

You don't experience over-oaking when you age as long as a year in the barrel? I have a 3l barrel and it swamped the liquor in just a couple of weeks. I have hardly used it since and I am seriously thinking of breaking it up and use the staves instead. Staves in a glass jar I can control, plus I get to decide what toast level and char I want. Panela is on my to-do list. Will get there soon, as fast as I can get my inlaws out of my distillery room

The barrels have been used so many times there is next to nothing left over in terms of anything adding color or flavor so is good for neutral aging. It is common in the wine world, particularly Europe, where they often store wines in very large[300-600liter] neutral barrels that can be decades old.

[NZChris]

To make a Clairin clone, Google how it is made, then make it using the same materials, fermentation times and still type. The tricky part is getting the cuts to your satisfaction. Too wide either way and you won't like it, too narrow and it will be boring. Don't store it in full containers, 2/3rds full leaves some headspace for O2. If you want to know how much it improves over six months, make another batch six months later.

[Yummyrum]

To make a Clairin clone, Google how it is made, then make it using the same materials, fermentation times and still type.

This method sounds good in theory. I have tried for years to replicate Bundaburg UP Rum and have never come close . Maybe if I had a 20 plate continuous stripper , a steam heated Pot still and a keg made from exactly the same Oak I might be in with a chance . Or was it the centrifugal clarifier or the in-house cultured yeast strain .

But then again , as 80% of the uniqueness comes from the Oak aging , you may well be in with a chance .

[Saltbush Bill]

Or is it the soil type the sugar cane is grown in, or the huge American oak vats that it's stored in.
I once read something that said even the distillery doesn't know exactly why their Rum tastes the way it does.

"The research project described in this thesis originated from an enquiry by The Bundaberg Distilling Company located in Bundaberg, Queensland, Australia.Production of rum first started at The Bundaberg Distilling Company in 1888and it has continued to the present date. The company produces approximately 5 million litres of rum annually, valued at about $200 milliondollars and accounts for 95% of the darkrum market share in Australia. In 2000, it was purchased by the multinational, alcoholic beverage company, Diageoplc.The process for rum production at this distillery has evolved and developed somewhat empirically over the years, and the final rum product has a unique or distinctive flavour character in relation to rums, globally (Broom 2003) .The company is aware of this quality trait, but is uncertain as to what factors might lead to this property. Future development and expansion of rum production at this distillery requires a more thorough understanding of the science and technology of the overall operation,so that systems can be improved or developed to better manage production efficiency and product quality.As a basis for further development of its business, the Bundaberg Distilling Company has sought a more detailed understanding of the microbiology and biotechnology of its process.It is with this background that the microbiological investigations reported in this thesis were undertaken.The overall objectiveof this thesis is to systematically investigate the microbial ecology of the rum distillery located at Bundaberg, Queensland, Australia-from raw materials (molasses, dunder, yeast and water) through yeast propagation and fermentation.
This basic information about the microbiology of the process should provide platform knowledge which the company can use to optimize its process and product quality.Given the limited information that exists about the microbiology and biotechnology of molasses based rum fermentation, in general, it is expected the results of the thesis will have broader scientific and technological interest.

[NZChris]

To make a Clairin clone, Google how it is made, then make it using the same materials, fermentation times and still type.

This method sounds good in theory. I have tried for years to replicate Bundaburg UP Rum and have never come close . Maybe if I had a 20 plate continuous stripper , a steam heated Pot still and a keg made from exactly the same Oak I might be in with a chance . Or was it the centrifugal clarifier or the in-house cultured yeast strain .

But then again , as 80% of the uniqueness comes from the Oak aging , you may well be in with a chance .

Replicating a specific rum from a single distillery is far more difficult than making something in the general style of a product that is made by multiple village distillers in Haiti. For that, all you need is some nice cane juice, a plater/whatever and a general idea of how they go about it, paying special attention to what the best makers do if you are fortunate enough to find that info..

See also; agricole rhums and Cachaça

[PalCabral]

Cloning is not a word I would use, or even associate, to trying to approach and mimic a style. To me cloning is something you try to do to really replicate a specific brand, getting into the "dna" of the beer or spirit you're after. It's easier to approach style, going by raw materials, modus operandi, etc.

But indigenous spirits such as Clairin are hard to replicate as they are so local. Getting hold of fresh pressed sugar cane is hard, impossible in my hellhole of the world. Even sugar cane syrup is beyond my reach, and wallet if it was within reach. The same with the yeast, as most of the Clairins are spontaneously fermented, making it principally impossible to replicate elsewhere. Then the climate and its' affect on the ferment and the aging of the spirit. Here it's -5C right now, if they had that temperature in Haiti people would die. Yeast too!

Of course, getting hold of information how a spirit is made is key, and it helps understanding french - although the creole french of the Haitians is a handful. Panela will be the closest thing available to me as a fermentable. Yeasts that develop esters are also available to me. The still I use would be a pot still set up, pretty much as rudimentary as the ones used by the Guildives distilling Clarin in Haiti. Will it be the same? No. But it may be near enough and if it's good, then that's bulls-eye.

And, as you say, six months later, I can make another, with any adjustments I think may be necessary.

[NZChris]

Just do the best you can with what you've got. I don't know that I would call it Clairin though.

I use an old fridge with a heating element for aging my rums at tropical temperatures. Ferments are always temperature controlled. I have sugar cane growing in the garden for if I want to inoculate a ferment with its natural yeasts or need cane trash for a trash cistern.

[PalCabral]

Sugar beets are the closest we’ve got here and molasses made from the sugar beet industry can be found in feed stores. Those who has used in in place of sugar cane molasses recommend not to use it as the taste is simply awful.

But I’ve got apples and plums in the garden so come summer I’ve got something free to ferment at least. If there is a summer…

[NZChris]

Sugar beet molasses is about as far divorced as you can possibly get for a suitable sugar for making something that resembles Clairin.

I get offered free plums every year and always get beaten to the crop by birds, so if you have them, protect them at all costs.

Apples need an efficient scratter and press to do large volumes. Suitable scratters and presses are not cheap to buy and are not simple to build.

I have done small batches with a kitchen juicer and a mini still, but only for experimental volumes. For large quantities, start doing your planning months before harvest, not days.

[PalCabral]

I tried to purchase apple must from some of the local musteries(?) thinking they’d be glad if someone lifted 200L off them now it was low season. Forget it, extortive prices. My own apples will only muster 25-30L of must, if it’s a good year. I’ve used them for cider in the past.

Yeah, I’ve got plans for the plums. It’s two trees with red and yellow mirabelles, cherry plums we call them, usually they produce much more than I can use/eat. The yellow ones arent particularly sweet, more towards the sour or acid, so I’m hoping they will create an intersting mix. We’ll see. But first, I make a Clairin winter warmer.