Fixed Valve Plate

[LWTCS]

Off shoot from the istill perfplate topic.
Thinking of a simple way to make a fixed valve plate.
The punch seems pretty doable by modifying a cold chisel.
The corresponding punch plate not so much. Only thing I can think of is CNC?

Shady?

[jedneck]

Maybe use a grater as an insert

[LWTCS]

Pics wont post

[jedneck]

Try this again

[Yummyrum]

I like it Jed. Good place to start looking for the perfect grater with the right size holes and open area .

[LWTCS]

Something the hobby guys should be able to do in the garage

[LWTCS]

Looks like bubble caps but not.

[SW_Shiner]

Maybe a modified metal embossing tool?

With the right kind of shaping on the punch and bottom die, could give good repeatable results.

[Yummyrum]

Clever thinking there Larry . Easy to calculate and cut desired “hole” to surface ratio .

But now I’m looking at it , isn’t it effectively a bubble cap without the internal riser . ( apart from the direction of bubbling )

[LWTCS]

Yessir.

[shadylane]

Thinking of a simple way to make a fixed valve plate.
The punch seems pretty doable by modifying a cold chisel.
The corresponding punch plate not so much. Only thing I can think of is CNC?

Shady?

A small punch and die for making louvers.

Make a punch out of a hardened bolt that's slightly undersized and use it to form the shape on the die, while the die is hot.
Grind the surface flat, then heat treat the die.
Then make another punch or weld up the first one and grind it to exactly match the die.

[shadylane]

Something the hobby guys should be able to do in the garage

Problems with the design.
Plate trees with a slip fit are a pain to keep from leaking.
Without an upcomer (I guess that's the right term) to keep reflux from weeping.
And without a trap on the downcomer, it's going to be a royal pain to get the plate to load.

[airhill]

Not sure what you are trying to achieve as I have had nothing to do with plates but if your trying to make holes with a raised exit perhaps check flow or possibly more correctly friction drilling.

[Yummyrum]

And without a trap on the downcomer, it's going to be a royal pain to get the plate to load.

I didn’t have traps on my plates Shady .I did a variation of Old dogs Mk11 weir downcomer idea . Plates load no problems at all .

[LWTCS]

@ shady, plates install via SD method so no problems there.
Also, what yummy said. Not a problem at all with the correct plate geometry. DC straw outlet just needs to be below the liquid level.

[Steve Broady]

The punch seems pretty doable by modifying a cold chisel.
The corresponding punch plate not so much.

For just a few pieces, you could go low tech and just use a block of wood. With an angled punch face (square key stock with the cutting face cut off at maybe 20-30 degrees from square), it should cut a simple louver, especially in copper. Something like oak or Masonite should give enough resistance, I would think.

[LWTCS]

The punch seems pretty doable by modifying a cold chisel.
The corresponding punch plate not so much.

For just a few pieces, you could go low tech and just use a block of wood. With an angled punch face (square key stock with the cutting face cut off at maybe 20-30 degrees from square), it should cut a simple louver, especially in copper. Something like oak or Masonite should give enough resistance, I would think.

I thought that might work for a few of the corresponding holes. Just wasn't sure how repeatable the process would be once the block of wood started taking on wear?

[LWTCS]

Not sure what you are trying to achieve as I have had nothing to do with plates but if your trying to make holes with a raised exit perhaps check flow or possibly more correctly friction drilling.

Just theorizing is all.
The fixed valve tray has a better turndown than basic perfs. Just a discussion about an alternative that is somewhere between the basic perf and a bubble cap system.

Articulating valve trays I guess would be the next level of superior operating range. Several folks including Googe have experimented with that system.

[tommysb]

This PDF mentions "The production of Fixed Valves is quite easy: A punching tool cuts and bends the element at a time. The cover is part of the panel material. The lift height can be controlled by the punching machine. Important: The length of the element depends on the lift height . There's some other nice info there, too!

https://welchem.com/fileadmin/pub/WelCh ... 2020-4.pdf

I wasn't familiar with fixed valve trays, thanks for sharing this discussion!

[zach]

Is this the type of tray you are talking about for articulating tray? I've seen this type in a fuel ethanol plant in the rectifying column.

I think laser cutting this from sheet metal with one of the online fabricators would be the way to go to make a prototype. I get adds from xometry for just this kind of work.

[zach]

Here is pattern that looks easier to fabricate. I read that a 3;1 turn down might be possible with better fouling resistance than a sieve plate.

[LWTCS]

Thanks Zach.
Yeah, the goal (for me anyway) was to talk about fabrication techniques that the average hobbyist could execute with out having to spend $200 on an hours worth of CNC time.

[LWTCS]

Is this the type of tray you are talking about for articulating tray? I've seen this type in a fuel ethanol plant in the rectifying column.

I think laser cutting this from sheet metal with one of the online fabricators would be the way to go to make a prototype. I get adds from xometry for just this kind of work.

Yessir thats it

[LWTCS]

Somewhere in here one of the fellas did one with screws.

Here is a 3D illustration I did for shits and giggles

[Bolverk]

Some stainless Chicago screws look like they may work as valves

[LWTCS]

Oh nice!

[Tammuz]

I ran into those on Temu looking for copper rivets. They were about 4 bucks for a box of 50

[OtisT]

The right punch bit on a hand press with a stop could easily make a consistent cheese grater type perf plate hole. Like a paper punch that does not go fully through so it is left with a “hanging chad’ partially blocking the opening. Of course this is not valved. It’s just a fancy hole.

I know there are a few hand made valved plate threads somewhere on HD. Like a pan head screw with the head covering the hole and the shaft as a weight to keep the cap from moving anywhere but up and down. There are also some discussions about placing stainless or copper coins or washers on a standard perf plate that in theory operate like a valve when the pressure from below is high enough. That would likely take some work to get the area and weight right to be effective but would be cheep and easy to adjust the plate drain speed by adding/removing some coins.

[Yummyrum]

Sungy’s valved 3” come to mind .
viewtopic.php?t=25960

But I’m starting to get confused about whether this topic is about valved plates or “Cheese grater” style plates ?

[LWTCS]

Sungy’s valved 3” come to mind .
viewtopic.php?t=25960

But I’m starting to get confused about whether this topic is about valved plates or “Cheese grater” style plates ?

Well so far its about plates that have more operating range than the basic perf plate without the added complexity of a bubble cap plate.
So far that is valve plates. Both fixed and articulating.

Thanks for posting that yummy. I had forgot that acfixer69 ran valve trays.

Jesus Christmas I must have been drinking way too much in those days...