I need advice for the first fermentation.

[Roger1]

Hello friends,

I am new to fermenting grains and this is my first experiment. I have prepared crushed wheat and crushed barley, dextrose, as well as alpha-amylase and gluco-amylase enzymes.

My aim is to create a tasty vodka with a subtle, pleasant grain flavor.

I've read in several places on forum that some people also use beta-amylase enzymes. Should I prepare beta-amylase as well, or are alpha and gluco-amylase enzymes sufficient?
Is it sufficient to use 1 gram of each enzyme for every kilogram of seeds?"

My fermentation container is a 220-liter barrel.
Do you agree with mixing 40 kg of crushed wheat and 30 kg of crushed barley, then adding dextrose until the specific gravity (SG) reaches 1.090 or 1.100?

Thanks for your input!

[SW_Shiner]

If doing all grain, i would definitely leave out the dextrose. And that gravity is quite high. Just the grain youve listed should get you between 1.060 and 1.070 which is probably as high as id go.

Im unsure about about using the beta or gluco ( ive never used either ) as i use malted grain with alpha (0.15-0.25ml/kg) as a backup, or Yellow Label Angle Yeast. Dosage for the enzymes should be listed either on the pack/bottle.

[Roger1]

If doing all grain, i would definitely leave out the dextrose. And that gravity is quite high. Just the grain youve listed should get you between 1.060 and 1.070 which is probably as high as id go.

Im unsure about about using the beta or gluco ( ive never used either ) as i use malted grain with alpha (0.15-0.25ml/kg) as a backup, or Yellow Label Angle Yeast. Dosage for the enzymes should be listed either on the pack/bottle.

Thank you for your response.
Unfortunately, I don't have access to malted grains in Iran, and the enzymes I obtained are in powder form. However, the seller recommended using 1 gram per kilogram of grain. Since I don't have experience fermenting grains, I wanted to include some dextrose in the mix as well.

[SW_Shiner]

The strain of yeast should also be taken into account. What is its ABV tolerance? There is no point in adding extra fermentables if the yeast is going to die off before fermentation is complete. A high gravity wash can also stress the yeast causing many bad flavours to form. The way i see it, and im just making these numbers up, but you could have a high gravity wash/mash and get 10L of ok product. Or drop the gravity a few points and get 8L of a great product. If you intend to distill regularly, you wont miss the drop in quantity, but no matter how often you distill, you will notice the increase in quality. Thats my opinion anyway. Others may say different.

[Roger1]

The strain of yeast should also be taken into account. What is its ABV tolerance? There is no point in adding extra fermentables if the yeast is going to die off before fermentation is complete. A high gravity wash can also stress the yeast causing many bad flavours to form. The way i see it, and im just making these numbers up, but you could have a high gravity wash/mash and get 10L of ok product. Or drop the gravity a few points and get 8L of a great product. If you intend to distill regularly, you wont miss the drop in quantity, but no matter how often you distill, you will notice the increase in quality. Thats my opinion anyway. Others may say different.

I concede on the SG number; 1070 has been approved because quality is more important to me as well. Since I'm inexperienced with fermentation, I just hope I don't end up without alcohol in the mix

[acfixer69]

It maybe important to tell us your mashing protocols also. It is the most important for mashing to produce alcohol.

[SW_Shiner]

Yes, the mashing protocol is also important. You can have all the best ingredients and enzymes, but with the incorrect mash method, they wont do anything.

[shadylane]

the enzymes I obtained are in powder form. However, the seller recommended using 1 gram per kilogram of grain.

There's a protocol for using the Alpha and Gluco enzymes and it very's with different manufactures.
Is there a name brand on the enzymes so we can search and find the info you need to succeed.

[Roger1]

It maybe important to tell us your mashing protocols also. It is the most important for mashing to produce alcohol.

Yes, what I understand so far is to bring the water and grains in the pot to 68 degrees Celsius and maintain it at this temperature for about one to two hours for the starch to be released and gelatinized. After that, add the alpha-amylase enzyme to break down the starch. The next step is to lower the temperature of the pot to 55 degrees Celsius and add the glucoamylase enzyme. Finally, add enough water and bring the temperature of the barrel to the yeast temperature and add the yeast.

The enzyme I have prepared is repacked and without a specific brand, but friends who make barley malt beer are satisfied with its quality.

And the question I have now is, in no source or writing have I seen it specifically stated how many liters of water one kilogram of grains needs to reach, for example, the number 1070 SG? Every recipe I read included some sugar, and I have not seen a specific grain recipe.

[Roger1]

Hello friends,

I am new to fermenting grains and this is my first experiment. I have prepared crushed wheat and crushed barley, dextrose, as well as alpha-amylase and gluco-amylase enzymes.

My aim is to create a tasty vodka with a subtle, pleasant grain flavor.

I've read in several places on forum that some people also use beta-amylase enzymes. Should I prepare beta-amylase as well, or are alpha and gluco-amylase enzymes sufficient?
Is it sufficient to use 1 gram of each enzyme for every kilogram of seeds?"

My fermentation container is a 220-liter barrel.
Do you agree with mixing 40 kg of crushed wheat and 30 kg of crushed barley, then adding dextrose until the specific gravity (SG) reaches 1.090 or 1.100?

Thanks for your input!

I have these 3 types of yeasts.

[Saltbush Bill]

Most members here wouldn't recommend any of those yeasts.
They are all Turbo yeasts, designed for high abv washes which in turn can produce off flavours.
You seem to be jumping in at the deep end before learning to swim.

[Roger1]

Most members here wouldn't recommend any of those yeasts.
They are all Turbo yeasts, designed for high abv washes which in turn can produce off flavours.
You seem to be jumping in at the deep end before learning to swim.

Do you recommend bread yeast?

[greggn]

Should I prepare beta-amylase as well, or are alpha and gluco-amylase enzymes sufficient?

I suspect you're referring to beta-glucanase which is an enzyme to break down beta-glucans (those long chain carbohydrates that make oats and rye so thick and snotty).

Though present, I've never felt the need to use beta-glucanase with wheat.

[Roger1]

Should I prepare beta-amylase as well, or are alpha and gluco-amylase enzymes sufficient?

I suspect you're referring to beta-glucanase which is an enzyme to break down beta-glucans (those long chain carbohydrates that make oats and rye so thick and snotty).

Though present, I've never felt the need to use beta-glucanase with wheat.

Yes, I might have misspelled the name of the enzyme. Thank you for your guidance.

[SW_Shiner]

Do you recommend bread yeast?

Bread yeast is fine. I use it on any ferment that im not using YLAY (Yellow Label Angel Yeast) for.

[shadylane]

And the question I have now is, in no source or writing have I seen it specifically stated how many liters of water one kilogram of grains needs to reach, for example, the number 1070 SG? Every recipe I read included some sugar, and I have not seen a specific grain recipe.

If there is, I can't find it.
I'm used to thinking in pounds per gallon. Liters per Kilo confuses me, it's not only metric, it's also inverted.
2 Lb/gal is commonly used. If my math is right that equals 16 ltrs/kilo

Are you going to ferment on the grain, or lauter like beer makers do?

[SW_Shiner]

And the question I have now is, in no source or writing have I seen it specifically stated how many liters of water one kilogram of grains needs to reach, for example, the number 1070 SG? Every recipe I read included some sugar, and I have not seen a specific grain recipe.

If there is, I can't find it.
I'm used to thinking in pounds per gallon. Liters per Kilo confuses me, it's not only metric, it's also inverted.
2 Lb/gal is commonly used. If my math is right that equals 16 ltrs/kilo

Are you going to ferment on the grain, or lauter like beer makers do?

Its about 250gm/liter. Or 4L/kg roughly. I use rough conversions but its close enough for me and works out fine.
Edit to add accuracy. 2lb=0.9kg, 1 gal=3.758L so 2lb per gal is about 237gm/L

[shadylane]

I really screwed up on the math.
Thanks for the correction SW

[SW_Shiner]

No worries, i still screw up imperial conversions. Still cant get my head around the imperial system. I like to find easy ways to remember things, which is good because with metric it works out as, grain weight x 4 = water in litres, similar with imperial, grain weight/2= water in gal.

[Roger1]

And the question I have now is, in no source or writing have I seen it specifically stated how many liters of water one kilogram of grains needs to reach, for example, the number 1070 SG? Every recipe I read included some sugar, and I have not seen a specific grain recipe.

If there is, I can't find it.
I'm used to thinking in pounds per gallon. Liters per Kilo confuses me, it's not only metric, it's also inverted.
2 Lb/gal is commonly used. If my math is right that equals 16 ltrs/kilo

Are you going to ferment on the grain, or lauter like beer makers do?

Friends, the answers are great, I have the same problem with American measurements
Do you agree about the mashing temperatures? Did I write it correctly?
I want to ferment on the grain.

[SW_Shiner]

Yes, im slowly almost getting the hang of pounds and gallons, temp still gets me stumped though, ill be using google to swap °F and °C forever i think.

Mashing temps seem ok to me. Having a look through various all grain recipes in the tried and true section, there seems to be a a few slightly different temps, but all ive seen are between 65°C and 69°C. As long as you still in that range you should be fine.

[Roger1]

Yes, im slowly almost getting the hang of pounds and gallons, temp still gets me stumped though, ill be using google to swap °F and °C forever i think.

Mashing temps seem ok to me. Having a look through various all grain recipes in the tried and true section, there seems to be a a few slightly different temps, but all ive seen are between 65°C and 69°C. As long as you still in that range you should be fine.

Thanks a lot for the useful advice.

[shadylane]

The website Brewers friend has calculators you might find helpful.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/allgrain-ogfg/

[Roger1]

The website Brewers friend has calculators you might find helpful.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/allgrain-ogfg/

thanks shadylane.

[zach]

If I were in your part of the world I would build a Malting/ Drying table like Fletching did to malt full bags of grain.

viewtopic.php?t=94313

I'm a little too lazy right now, and my boss wouldn't want the additional clutter in the garage.

[subbrew]

You can calculate how much grain you need to get to a specific gravity with this chart. Use the flaked grain numbers for unmalted grain https://stillntheclear.com/moonshine-10 ... ppg-chart/ It is in lb, but multiply by 2.2 will be close. For example flaked barley has 28 points per lb/gal at a typical 85% efficiency. So 28X2.2= 61.6 points per kg/gal. Using 20 kg give 61.6 X 20 = 1232 total gravity points. If I want my final solution to have 1.065 gravity or 65 points per gal, 1232 = 65XA A=1232/65 = 19 gal X 3.8 liter per gal = 72 liters