Lights flicker using Aurber DSPR1 or other Burst fire controller

[Yummyrum]

I'm wondering how common this is .There are a lot of Auber units out there now .
( also this is not a bad mouthing of the Auber controller , I really think it is a great unit , just not in my case )

I mentioned in my DIY Burst-fire controller topic that I have really bad flicker of the House lights when I am running my still .
A couple there said they had not noticed it , but I am wondering if anyone else has this issue .

It effects all my Dimmable LED lights , our Fluoro's and even incandescent lamps which really surprised me . I have a few Non dimmable LED lights and they seem to cope better.

Running a 2kw element I can barely notice it , but running the 6kw , it is bad . I can cope with it but it annoys the hell out of Mrs Yummy and my son .So 'Stillin days are short and only when its really sunny .

So I have a Shed that has it's own sub panel and is about 40 metres from the main house fuse box .
My son is in a granny flat . He is about 20 meters from house fuse box with his own sub panel .

the problem seems to be that when the element turns on and off there is about a 20 volt difference in voltage due to the drop from the Street transformer and the cable to the shed . A significant amount must be dropping on the street wiring because the voltage at the house varies by about 15 volts from on to off . This constant change in voltage makes the house , granny flat and shed lights flicker .
The obvious work around would be to have a bank of lower power elements and that are individually switched on and only control one of them , but that is messy .
I am incidentally going to move back to a phase controller to keep the peace in the household .
We also have a new 8kw Solar installation , I would have thought that that would have helped with the regulation , but it makes no difference if it is on or off .

Am I alone ? is anyone else suffering this ?

My advise before going down the Auber route would be to flick your element on and off and see if your lights change brightness. If they do , you may have the same issue I'm having .

[Salt Must Flow]

That's very strange. I don't know what could cause what you are experiencing. I have two Auber DSPR400 controllers. I can operate either one or even both (each with a 5500W element) at the same time and no affect on anything in my garage or house.

[shadylane]

We also have a new 8kw Solar installation , I would have thought that that would have helped with the regulation , but it makes no difference if it is on or off .

Am I alone ? is anyone else suffering this ?

You mentioned solar, and it made me wonder.
Is there anything that's part of the installation between the house and transformer?
Could it be possible there's something in the pole transformer that's meant to automatically adjust for line fluctuations?

[Yummyrum]

That's very strange. I don't know what could cause what you are experiencing. I have two Auber DSPR400 controllers. I can operate either one or even both (each with a 5500W element) at the same time and no affect on anything in my garage or house.

Interesting Salt . I guess maybe you have thicker gauge cable from your street transformer to your house . I know everything in the US looks oversized compared to what we have in Australia . Maybe also your transformer is closer than mine .
At 11kw , you are pulling almost twice the current I am so I would have thought it would be evident for sure .
Curious what kind of lights you have .

You mentioned solar, and it made me wonder.
Is there anything that's part of the installation between the house and transformer?
Could it be possible there's something in the pole transformer that's meant to automatically adjust for line fluctuations?

As far as I know , there is a “smart meter” in the switch board .
It has three ports . The incoming mains , the house load and the Output from the Solar inverter .
I am no expert on it Shady , but I believe it just monitors the three so the power company can either give you a bill or a credit depending on which way the load is going . We are also limited to pushing a maximum of 5kw back into the grid . So it talks to the inverter and controls how much it can generate .

I can switch it off …. as in throw the switch between the solar inverter and the switchboard so as if it wasn’t even there and it makes no difference .

I would have thought that the inverter would have acted as a low impedance source and during full sun and max output , the only voltage drop was the 5 to the shed , but it doesn’t work that way .

No pole trannys here Shady . Our suburb is about 25year old so all underground cable and these 500kw transformers for the whole neighbourhood .
They just replaced this one on Monday . I was hoping it would help but no.

[30xs]

Same boat as Salt. Have two Auberins running 2 5500 watt elements. No issue with flickering lights here either. I don’t remember which model I have exactly. Maybe the DSPR1? I’ll have to take a look to confirm that one.

[Salt Must Flow]

That's very strange. I don't know what could cause what you are experiencing. I have two Auber DSPR400 controllers. I can operate either one or even both (each with a 5500W element) at the same time and no affect on anything in my garage or house.

Interesting Salt . I guess maybe you have thicker gauge cable from your street transformer to your house . I know everything in the US looks oversized compared to what we have in Australia . Maybe also your transformer is closer than mine .
At 11kw , you are pulling almost twice the current I am so I would have thought it would be evident for sure .
Curious what kind of lights you have .

I live approximately 100 yards from the road. The cable runs around my home & garage and enters at the rear of my home. That makes the cable significantly longer. I do not know what gauge the cable is. Most of my bulbs are daylight LED non-dimmable.

[Yummyrum]

Hmmm thanks ,
So we may have similar lengths from street to still . Our house is two blocks from our transformer . I’d guess maybe 500-600metres .

Interesting about your bulbs . I found the non-dimmable ones were OK , maybe they have a nice big capacitor that filters the fluctuation . but the dimmable ones were nasty . I guess thats how they make them dimmable .

I am curious if you don’t mind .
What is the voltage at the input to your controller when it is at 0 % power and when it is at 100% power?
Just trying to see how many volts drop you get when the elements are pulling full power.

Thanks also for your reply 30xs. With a load that high seems you are also in a good position to comment .
Also if you don’t mind and are able , would you be able to measure your no load full load voltage ?

[kennstminet]

Yummy
Have you considered asking Auber tech support if they know more about that flickering?
I see no flickering, however my load is only 2300W at 230V and I have no higher load available for testing.

[30xs]

Thanks also for your reply 30xs. With a load that high seems you are also in a good position to comment .
Also if you don’t mind and are able , would you be able to measure your no load full load voltage ?

I’ll see if I can dig everything out on my next set of days off. Been packed away during house remodel. I did add dimmable led wafer lights and curious to see if I now share your issues.

[Yummyrum]

Yummy
Have you considered asking Auber tech support if they know more about that flickering?
I see no flickering, however my load is only 2300W at 230V and I have no higher load available for testing.

No I haven’t but maybe it’s worth a try . I guess they would have heard the whinges if it was a thing .

Similar to you Ken , at 2000 barely perceivable if at all …… but the mrs can still see it

I’ll see if I can dig everything out on my next set of days off. Been packed away during house remodel. I did add dimmable led wafer lights and curious to see if I now share your issues.

That would be awesome 30xs , but no drama . …… unless of coarse you needed an excuse to drag it out

Also curious about the dimmable lights

[jonnys_spirit]

I had a loose neutral in my main panel disconnect which caused flickering in LEDs under load. Heat build up, arcing, and carbonization leads to fluctuating resistance in the 0V return path. Ultimately had to replace the panel due to age but might be worth a look.

Cheers,
-j

[bilgriss]

I'm no expert, nor do I play one on TV. But I do recall when we upgraded our main panel in our home from 100 to 200 amps, the utility company came and did an assessment of the line coming from the street. Different supply lines have different capacity and in some cases the original for a home was put in place with whatever expectation of capacity of the time, and after some expansion later, it might not be fully up to the task. Long shot maybe but plausible. The question about solar is interesting too. If you have battery backup, doesn't the switch gear look for a voltage drop to figure whether it should swap - or for that matter if you have line metering, there's some kind of switching involved.

[Yummyrum]

Bilgriss
Alas no batteries . We considered it but there was no gov subsidy and we would have also needed to upgrade solar panels by about 50% and inverter the same …… become a budget blow out with an impossible payback so , sadly no batteries .

However , I agree with your reasoning about original install sizing and I think that is exactly what the issue is .

Back when this subdivision was made , I bet they never thought everyone would need Air-cons and other big power suckers so they laid the street cables with undersized cables . …. Well it was probably acceptable back then .

So while it still works and the voltage drop is within Australian standards , it is basically inadequate to deal with modern demands .


It’s maybe 10 metres from the street pit ti the switch box .we maybe could drag a fatter cable across , but I have a sneaking suspicion , the main issue is the undersized buried cable that runs 500 meters back down the street to the Transformer .
The same cable is shared with all the neighbour's but , it’s three phase so we all share and alternate

[quadra]

My first thought was the same as Johnny spirit, issue with the neutral, but my brain thinks in terms of N.A. electrical service ( split phase 240v ) .. you have a lot of things going on electrically. I am not as familiar with service standards in Aus. But assume you have single phase at home, not split? Is that extra current draw pushing your total load over the normal load range for your service? Or for the solar feed in device? At what service level is split phase normally installed residentially? I see on line that 63 Amp 220V 1Ph service ( 15KW ) is a modern residential standard panel, so it should seem adequateeven with the extra draw.. Is it possible there is a sizing or connection issue with your shed sub? Can you clamp those lines back at the main panel to check them under load?

[kennstminet]

but I have a sneaking suspicion , the main issue is the undersized buried cable that runs 500 meters back down the street to the Transformer .

Then some neighbours should see some flickering when you turn on the beast.
You possibly do not want to ask if they saw something while you were distilling.

[quadra]

Even then, wouldn't only one third of the neighbours be on the common phase?

[shadylane]

Even then, wouldn't only one third of the neighbours be on the common phase?

Only if the transformer is powered by 3 phase.
To find out, look up at the nearby power lines and count the wires.

[Yummyrum]

As I mentioned before Shady , no power lines in our Suburb , it’s all underground.

But yes we use three phase with a Neutral . Every successive house gets the next phase but we all share the neutral.

Ken , I had thought about asking my neighbours eitherside that I know well but had forgot that they are both on a different phase to me . Good point Quadra . And don’t know the neighbours next to them. But it certainly would be interesting to find out . Just don’t want to raise suspicions about something that is causing interference . LOL they all talk . I can imagine them discussing over a beer and a BBQ O’l mate down the road been doing a door knock asking about flickering lights .

[shadylane]

What's the model on the transformer, I'd like to look it up and see if there's something about it that could be effected by a burstfire controlled load.

[Yummyrum]

Just reading Jonhnys post about the nuetral and it occurred to me . In the US , are your lights on a 120v circuit ?
Ours are on the 240v .I can’t see that making a difference though as the percentage change would be the same .

Also wondering when Shady asked about pole transformers , do you guys have one pole transformer for each house or do many houses share the same one ? Not that it mattes but just curious .

Quadra , yes all our residential switch boards have a 63a breaker .
My shed has a 40amp breaker . I am not 100% sure but I think it has 6mm 2^ cable feeding it . It was here when we bought the place .

[jonnys_spirit]

In my US neighborhood we have at least a couple houses per one trafo up on the pole. Bucket shaped/sized trafos. A loose neutral will cause flickering LEDs and I believe they were “dimmable” LEDs too. In my case the loads that caused it were on different 120V circuits but the same neutral and it’s typically two phase to each house for 120V legs or 240V larger appliances like stoves, HVAC, dryer - and stills…

Cheers,
-j

[shadylane]

Also wondering when Shady asked about pole transformers , do you guys have one pole transformer for each house or do many houses share the same one ? Not that it mattes but just curious .

Usually several houses.

[Salt Must Flow]

Hmmm thanks ,
So we may have similar lengths from street to still . Our house is two blocks from our transformer . I’d guess maybe 500-600metres .

Interesting about your bulbs . I found the non-dimmable ones were OK , maybe they have a nice big capacitor that filters the fluctuation . but the dimmable ones were nasty . I guess thats how they make them dimmable .

I am curious if you don’t mind .
What is the voltage at the input to your controller when it is at 0 % power and when it is at 100% power?
Just trying to see how many volts drop you get when the elements are pulling full power.

I acquired a Southwire 21030T meter years ago, but I don't really know much about how to use it. Do I have to crack open my controller and put the clamp around one of the 240V power wires?

[jonnys_spirit]

Two houses on this bucket sized pole trafo. 7k2V single phase up on the wire and the trafo steps it down to two 120V legs with a neutral 0V center tap that’s bonded to ground.

Cheers,
-jonny

[Yummyrum]

Hmmm thanks ,
So we may have similar lengths from street to still . Our house is two blocks from our transformer . I’d guess maybe 500-600metres .

Interesting about your bulbs . I found the non-dimmable ones were OK , maybe they have a nice big capacitor that filters the fluctuation . but the dimmable ones were nasty . I guess thats how they make them dimmable .

I am curious if you don’t mind .
What is the voltage at the input to your controller when it is at 0 % power and when it is at 100% power?
Just trying to see how many volts drop you get when the elements are pulling full power.

I acquired a Southwire 21030T meter years ago, but I don't really know much about how to use it. Do I have to crack open my controller and put the clamp around one of the 240V power wires?

Salt , open the controller , put the red and black test leads on the two hot wires going into the controller ( they are probably red and black also) . Leave the meter on the setting shown in that pic you linked to . It should display the AC voltage . Don’t need to use the clamp ( thats just for measuring the current )

So yeah , take a voltage reading with the controller on 0% and another at 100% .

But if your controller already has a voltmeter in it and it is connected ti the input , just use that .

[Yummyrum]

Thanks for that , sounds like it’s a common theme then if Shadys got similar .
Interesting Pic Jonny.
So I guess they use the ground as the return for the tranny .
I’ve only ever seen that used one here . Strangely just up the road around Bundaburg . They have a single HV line and a small step down Tranny at each farm or group of houses .

As for the Neutral effecting the lights , that would make sense if your lights are on a 120v circuit .

[NormandieStill]

It's going to be a few more days before my controller is working and I get to see if we get flicker but in terms of wiring we're about 300m from the transformer. Overhead wiring at 240v is tapped from a pole near the house so there's maybe another 25m of cable between my distribution panel and the overhead cable.

We did have a problem when we first moved in. At certain times of the day (when everyone came home from work) we were getting a voltage drop down to around 180v. I phoned the electricity board and was told that unless I had a calibrated meter my readings didn't mean a thing and would be ignored. When the technicians eventually came out they were getting the same readings as me. Turned out that when connector a new house there was no record of which phases had been used previously so the subcontractors just used a random phase. As a result there was one phase which was overloaded and would regularly drop to below 200v while one of the others was at 245v. They swapped us over to the unloaded phase and scheduled a phase audit and that was that.

If you already knew most of the neighbours well you could ask, but turning up on the doorstep with a multimeter in hand might provoke some commentary.

[Salt Must Flow]

Hmmm thanks ,
So we may have similar lengths from street to still . Our house is two blocks from our transformer . I’d guess maybe 500-600metres .

Interesting about your bulbs . I found the non-dimmable ones were OK , maybe they have a nice big capacitor that filters the fluctuation . but the dimmable ones were nasty . I guess thats how they make them dimmable .

I am curious if you don’t mind .
What is the voltage at the input to your controller when it is at 0 % power and when it is at 100% power?
Just trying to see how many volts drop you get when the elements are pulling full power.

I acquired a Southwire 21030T meter years ago, but I don't really know much about how to use it. Do I have to crack open my controller and put the clamp around one of the 240V power wires?

Salt , open the controller , put the red and black test leads on the two hot wires going into the controller ( they are probably red and black also) . Leave the meter on the setting shown in that pic you linked to . It should display the AC voltage . Don’t need to use the clamp ( thats just for measuring the current )

So yeah , take a voltage reading with the controller on 0% and another at 100% .

But if your controller already has a voltmeter in it and it is connected ti the input , just use that .

At 100% I get 238V
At 0% I get 0.098V

[Yummyrum]

Looks like you are measuring at the element .
Need to measure where the the live wires enter the controller , nit where they leave it .

[Salt Must Flow]

Looks like you are measuring at the element .
Need to measure where the the live wires enter the controller , nit where they leave it .

IMG_1898.jpeg

Mark exactly what two points you want me to measure and I will do it.