I have an old new barrel. It has dried out a bit and will hopefully be able to be swelled enough with hot water. It is from JK Cooperage of Hungary and I believe is 23 L. It was intended for wine I'm pretty sure. It is only toasted. I was thinking of charring it before swelling with water then filling with bourbon.
Now I'm wondering if anyone has figured out how to optimally use a barrel to get the most use out of them. Should I be doing something else with it first and not charring it? What would you put in it first second third and so on to get the most use out of it? I know bourbon is supposed to be in a new barrel but sometimes you see a sherry cask whiskey. I believe I've seen a port cask whiskey too.
Any wisdom or suggestions I may have missed would be appreciated.
If you plan to disassemble it to toast the staves, be sure to mark the order so they’ll fit back together. You can simply number them around the outside top end (where the head is removed already). A Sharpie works great for this.
Since you’re planning to use this cask for bourbon, it might be nice to retoast it and add fresh char. While you’re at it, I’d suggest cleaning the groove where the head will install too. A good seat will minimize head-to-stave leakage.
Even without retoast and/or rechar, the cask will work for you. It simply might be lighter on the flavor and color transfer to your whiskey. Some hobbiests like to fill the cask with wine before using for bourbon. But, I don’t favor that as it will definitely add a “fruity” flavor to your product. And I prefer the grain-flavors in my whiskeys. But, do as you wish….it’ll be your product.
ss
I've never used Hungarian oak, so I dont know how the flavor differs from American white oak. If that was my barrel, I would put the ring back on it to pull the staves together, then char it with a weed torch, douse the flame with water, reassemble and soak it to swell it up. Then promptly fill it with bourbon.
I would not try to char the staves individually or break it down further to char it.
Fear and ridicule are the tactics of weak-minded cowards and tyrants who have no other leadership talent from which to draw in order to persuade.
Thank you. I think I will char it whole and use straight away for bourbon. It'll be a little bit before I can fill it. I've just started the first batch of several that will be required. I intend to use some backset for the remaining batches.
With this smaller barrel is there such at thing at too long for aging?
How many times can a barrel be reused for bourbon or should I make a scotch or some other whisky for the next time?
hawkwing wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 7:28 am
Thank you. I think I will char it whole and use straight away for bourbon. It'll be a little bit before I can fill it. I've just started the first batch of several that will be required. I intend to use some backset for the remaining batches.
With this smaller barrel is there such at thing at too long for aging?
How many times can a barrel be reused for bourbon or should I make a scotch or some other whisky for the next time?
If you want to keep it authentic only once for Bourbon.
Then fill with rum or scotch style whiskey.
hawkwing wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 7:28 am… With this smaller barrel is there such at thing at too long for aging?
In a cask that size, 2 to 3 years is NOT too long. It’ll be delicious. Too long would be after I’m dead. Unfortunately, my whiskeys are usually gone before they’re too old. Getting to 2 years is a stretch.
hawkwing wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 7:28 am… How many times can a barrel be reused for bourbon or should I make a scotch or some other whisky for the next time?
Sure, you can use it a couple of times, no problem. But, the color and caramel/vanilla notes will be diminished and aging will take more time. After 2 or 3 uses, they often need to be broken down and reconditioned. Or, you could use it for rum or something like tequilla where you don’t want a big oak expression.
ss
hawkwing wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 7:28 am
Thank you. I think I will char it whole and use straight away for bourbon. It'll be a little bit before I can fill it. I've just started the first batch of several that will be required. I intend to use some backset for the remaining batches.
With this smaller barrel is there such at thing at too long for aging?
How many times can a barrel be reused for bourbon or should I make a scotch or some other whisky for the next time?
I’d char it if you can and soak/swell/seal it with hot water. Then empty it and start filling it. Plan on letting it sit for a year or longer as noted and consider making extra to keep in glass with some oak fingers to too it up.
I’ve used hungarian oak for wine. Vadai barrels. I’ve got one filled with port now which has been neutral for quite a while and will fill it with rum or something at some point. I might add a minimal amount of toasted or charred fingers for some subtle oak instead of taking it apart and reworking the inside. I think the port will add something good.
Thanks all. I will char it and fill it but will wait until I have enough raw bourbon to fill it. I am only setup to do 20L batches in my still. I will try and get it done before it gets too hot to ferment in my place. I should have a few months.
Would you guys consider doing a partial beeswax coating to make the breathable area to volume ratio similar to a large barrel and thus the angels share similar to a large barrel too?
hawkwing wrote: ↑Mon Mar 28, 2022 4:01 pm
Would you guys consider doing a partial beeswax coating to make the breathable area to volume ratio similar to a large barrel and thus the angels share similar to a large barrel too?
hawkwing wrote: ↑Mon Mar 28, 2022 4:01 pm
Would you guys consider doing a partial beeswax coating to make the breathable area to volume ratio similar to a large barrel and thus the angels share similar to a large barrel too?
Nope. Never. Use it as intended and manage it for what it is and it will make good whiskey. Dink with it, and you'll just regret it later.
Fear and ridicule are the tactics of weak-minded cowards and tyrants who have no other leadership talent from which to draw in order to persuade.
hawkwing wrote: ↑Mon Mar 28, 2022 4:01 pm
Would you guys consider doing a partial beeswax coating to make the breathable area to volume ratio similar to a large barrel and thus the angels share similar to a large barrel too?
Nope. Never. Use it as intended and manage it for what it is and it will make good whiskey. Dink with it, and you'll just regret it later.
Ok will do. But if that’s the case shouldn’t the aging time be less too?
The Baker wrote: ↑Mon Mar 28, 2022 6:19 pm
If you have all this nice wood, don't coat it with beeswax!
Geoff
On cutting boards beeswax brings out their beauty. It might even reduce stains. That said I'd have to leave some of it unwaxed. I probably won't wax it.
I charred the barrel and swelled it up with distilled water. No leaks. Going to fill with bourbon white dog in a few days. when I charred it I notice that there was some finish probably polyurethane on the ends of the staves. One end got a bit burned off.
I used about a gallon of hot water a cup at a time on the ends and I caught the water and kept putting it back in the barrel plus added a gallon or two a day as my air still made it. I let the outside soak too in the fermenter. It swelled up pretty good. Took 2 to 3 days to stop leaking profusely. And another day or two for the top of the end to dry up completely.
Three years aging my bourbon is coming up this summer. I put a thief in the barrel a few months ago and was surprised how much the level has gone down, I'd estimate a third is gone if memory serves. Should I bottle it or wait? Only problem is I would need something to refill the barrel with and it's starting to get nice out.
What’s the current proof and compared to your entry proof and desired bottling proof? Have you lost 25% yo the angels? The rate will only accelerate. Options might be to add water and proof down in the barrel for some amount of time. If you want it to continue to mature you could put it in a carboy/similar container and continue to allow oxygen interaction but prevent as much evaporation loss. No more wood extraction obviously, unless you wanted to add some staves or something to “finish”. Or if you’re happy how it is bottle it! Or my favorite option, bottle some, and finish another portion differently and compare in a year.
hawkwing wrote: ↑Sat Mar 22, 2025 3:11 pm
Three years aging my bourbon is coming up this summer. I put a thief in the barrel a few months ago and was surprised how much the level has gone down, I'd estimate a third is gone if memory serves. Should I bottle it or wait? Only problem is I would need something to refill the barrel with and it's starting to get nice out.
The angel share you describe is similar to what I have experienced with my 5G Gibbs. I’ll bet your bourbon is delicious. I’d leave it full until I had enough to refill it with something else, or …. turn it into a perpetual solera type bourbon. I’d pull a gallon to continue aging on glass & drink, and then top off the barrel with new make bourbon. Let it sit for a year and repeat. So many options, so little time.
🎱 The struggle is real and this rabbit hole just got interesting. Per a conversation I had with Mr. Jay Gibbs regarding white oak barrel staves: “…you gotta get it burning good.”
