I really hate my plater

[fiery creations]

I'm strongly considering shelving it and pulling out my old packed column, but between the money I spent and not wanting to beat I figured I'd ask again for advice. I just cannot get this thing to run.

I did a second batch of SBBs recipe. Started with 20 gallons of 25% low wines. Once again, it all tastes vile...after a painfully slow run collecting at 1LPH. Luckily I saved everything this time so hopefully I can keep reusing it to figure this thing out.

With the site not loading 99% of the time for me it's hard to go through all my old threads, but I believe the consensus was I wasn't throwing nearly enough power at it. On this try I physically couldn't throw more power at it without overwhelming the deph, and I'm wondering if that is the issue.


After I reached a boil I turned my deph on full blast to load the plates. Every time I tried going above 2200 watts it would start slipping past it. Is this likely the issue I need to resolve so I don't get massive smearing?

I left the needle valve at about 1/2 cracked and ran it around 2600 watts for the remainder of the run to try and stay below 1.5LPH, but it smells and tastes just like my last attempt. Fores came off nice, then heads, then more heads, then nasty tails. It all stayed 93-94% using 4 plates, but none of it is drinkable. I know it's a balancing act, but I swear I've tried just about everything. I could not flood my plates if I wanted to on this run.

Do I need more water to the deph and more power? It's been over a year and I haven't had one successful run with this thing.

[fiery creations]

Another strange issue I forgot. My condenser seems to have vapor coming out of the end only when I'm using plates and the dephlegmator. I can strip like hell with a huge power input and it doesn't do that in pot mode.

The condenser is icy cold to the touch, and the distillate is cold. What the hell? It wasn't huffing.

[LWTCS]

Pics of your plates?

[fiery creations]

This hurts my head. I was able to find my thread from the last run and I had...the exact opposite problem, and said my deph worked too well and I couldn't close it anymore than 1/8 a turn

[Northsouth]

My first question is why are you worried about smearing? Bubbles were made to pass flavors, 100+ years technology. What do you want to make? If it is vodka, (or neutral, and no, no, no, no, it ain't the same thing), go with packing.

On bubbles, there is a balance between cooling and power. You have to figure out the perfect spot for your personal rig. A tip is that many ask about size of cooling coil, but fail to talk about water temperature. The answer ain't the same living g in Alaska or Texas. Even 5-10 degrees of difference can make a huge difference.

[Stags]

I don’t run a flute but I’ll toss my .02 in

1) I size all condensers to handle max power in any reasonable operating environment with a comfy safety margin. My lil 3 gallon worm with 12’ coil handles all 4kw I can throw at it and then some even in the dead heat of summer

2) have you done cleaning runs?

3) stills are not set it and forget it tools. Doesn’t work that way. Ambient temps hell even air pressure and humidity can impact the way they behave. My understanding is that with flutes you want to modulate either power or dephleg water flow or both to either compress or smear depending on what you want.

TLDR: im guessing you’re trying to drive it like a packed column or pot and getting packed column or pot results. I’m sure a master will set me straight if I’m wrong

Edit: you might consider diluting those low wines and throwing them through your packed column to see if you have a fermentation issue and not a driving issue

[shadylane]

After several different builds, all my plates are gathering dust and I'm back to using a potstill for whiskey and bourbon.

[fiery creations]

My first question is why are you worried about smearing? Bubbles were made to pass flavors, 100+ years technology. What do you want to make? If it is vodka, (or neutral, and no, no, no, no, it ain't the same thing), go with packing.

On bubbles, there is a balance between cooling and power. You have to figure out the perfect spot for your personal rig. A tip is that many ask about size of cooling coil, but fail to talk about water temperature. The answer ain't the same living g in Alaska or Texas. Even 5-10 degrees of difference can make a huge difference.

Have you every tried drinking distillate without making any cuts? Do you just do a stripping run and drink it? Heads are disgusting and tails are rancid...
My cooling water is super cold with a huge reservoir. I don't know why it seems like it can't knock down 2200 watts.

I don’t run a flute but I’ll toss my .02 in

1) I size all condensers to handle max power in any reasonable operating environment with a comfy safety margin. My lil 3 gallon worm with 12’ coil handles all 4kw I can throw at it and then some even in the dead heat of summer

2) have you done cleaning runs?

3) stills are not set it and forget it tools. Doesn’t work that way. Ambient temps hell even air pressure and humidity can impact the way they behave. My understanding is that with flutes you want to modulate either power or dephleg water flow or both to either compress or smear depending on what you want.

TLDR: im guessing you’re trying to drive it like a packed column or pot and getting packed column or pot results. I’m sure a master will set me straight if I’m wrong

Edit: you might consider diluting those low wines and throwing them through your packed column to see if you have a fermentation issue and not a driving issue

As I said my PC can handle two 5000 watt elements at full power to strip. I don't know why i'm getting vapor if it's coming out cold.

If you're thinking it's from a dirt still, it's not. I run this thing a ton in pot mode with no issue. In close to 15 years I never had one failed run from smearing until getting this plater.

After several different builds, all my plates are gathering dust and I'm back to using a potstill for whiskey and bourbon.

I run it in pot mode for those too. Just wanted to do Bills rum with plates. You gave me an idea. I've done at least 50 runs in this new still in pot mode with no issue. Maybe this rum gets pot stilled instead just so I don't lose another $140 batch of molasses and can at least get an idea what it's supposed to taste like.

[shadylane]

As I said my PC can handle two 5000 watt elements at full power to strip. I don't know why i'm getting vapor if it's coming out cold.

Maybe it's not alcohol vapor but Co2 from the boiler that's been cooled by the PC, when the cold Co2 exits the condenser and hits moist air it chills the air below it's dew point and makes a cloud. High proof alcohol vapor is invisible but water vapor is.

[Sporacle]

My cooling water is super cold with a huge reservoir. I don't know why it seems like it can't knock down 2200 watts

Could you post some photos of your deflag
I think it could be an issue with dwell time

[Yummyrum]

Sorry if we are asking all the same questions again Feiry , but how do you know that you are sticking 2200w up it ?

[Northsouth]

My first question is why are you worried about smearing? Bubbles were made to pass flavors, 100+ years technology. What do you want to make? If it is vodka, (or neutral, and no, no, no, no, it ain't the same thing), go with packing.

On bubbles, there is a balance between cooling and power. You have to figure out the perfect spot for your personal rig. A tip is that many ask about size of cooling coil, but fail to talk about water temperature. The answer ain't the same living g in Alaska or Texas. Even 5-10 degrees of difference can make a huge difference.

Have you every tried drinking distillate without making any cuts? Do you just do a stripping run and drink it? Heads are disgusting and tails are rancid...
My cooling water is super cold with a huge reservoir. I don't know why it seems like it can't knock down 2200 watts.

I don’t run a flute but I’ll toss my .02 in

1) I size all condensers to handle max power in any reasonable operating environment with a comfy safety margin. My lil 3 gallon worm with 12’ coil handles all 4kw I can throw at it and then some even in the dead heat of summer

2) have you done cleaning runs?

3) stills are not set it and forget it tools. Doesn’t work that way. Ambient temps hell even air pressure and humidity can impact the way they behave. My understanding is that with flutes you want to modulate either power or dephleg water flow or both to either compress or smear depending on what you want.

TLDR: im guessing you’re trying to drive it like a packed column or pot and getting packed column or pot results. I’m sure a master will set me straight if I’m wrong

Edit: you might consider diluting those low wines and throwing them through your packed column to see if you have a fermentation issue and not a driving issue

As I said my PC can handle two 5000 watt elements at full power to strip. I don't know why i'm getting vapor if it's coming out cold.

If you're thinking it's from a dirt still, it's not. I run this thing a ton in pot mode with no issue. In close to 15 years I never had one failed run from smearing until getting this plater.

After several different builds, all my plates are gathering dust and I'm back to using a potstill for whiskey and bourbon.

I run it in pot mode for those too. Just wanted to do Bills rum with plates. You gave me an idea. I've done at least 50 runs in this new still in pot mode with no issue. Maybe this rum gets pot stilled instead just so I don't lose another $140 batch of molasses and can at least get an idea what it's supposed to taste like.

Regarding the cuts, I now understand that you are not able to take cuts at all, it is all mixed, heads, heart and tail? (My point was that bubbles are for taste, and you might loose heart in a bubbler compared to for example SPP or glass marble packing).
I agree that the vapor that you see might be CO2, it happens to me all the time.
I would try two things. Run with water and see how hot you can run without steam going through. (This will be a good cleaning run aswell, but with bubbles, that should really not be necessary).

I would then try to run really slow. By slow, I mean less than 0.5l takeout per hour. If you still get smearing, the problem has to be the wash.

[fiery creations]

Here is the exact deph I’m using.


https://milehidistilling.com/product/4- ... mjwrHXuNEH

Interesting about the CO2. Never experienced that before.

Sorry if we are asking all the same questions again Feiry , but how do you know that you are sticking 2200w up it ?

I know it’s probably not exact, but it’s from the chart you made for me with my elements.

North south- this has happened with multiple washes. My SSS, potato vodka, and rum. Correct about the cuts. I know it’s going to “smear” a little. I’m not using a column or going for a neutral with this rub. I’d use all 10 plates if I wanted all the flavor gone.

[haggy]

fiery,

What would explain your plater performance is if you had unknowingly been running 13 amps in both of your heating elements . That would likely deliver 4400 watts instead of the 2200 watts you thought was running.

For 4" regular bubble caps, that 4400 watts would lead to or be near flooding and certainly have much entrainment and smearing of tails up the column. The following post by bluefish ( and by some others ) shows flooding of his 4" column with regular caps at 4000 watts.

Re: Plate Reflux Column Operating Characteristics
Post by bluefish_dist » Mon Oct 24, 2022 11:24 am

I think the pro caps would flood around 5000-5500 and the regular caps around 4000 for a 4”. I used all still dragon parts, plates and caps. I think on the 4” there were 5 holes for the regular caps and 3 for pro caps. The regular were setup with 4 up, 1 down if I remember right.

He ran with a 10% pot abv, running at 25% pot abv like you did could be worse.

If you would have taken run data on the deflag cooling water ( cw ) flow rate and temperature in and out, we could back out the reflux flow rate that is condensed. That would lead to knowing the approximate vapor flow up the column and the watts being used.

For instance, I used your deflag design specifications that I had once before, and for your recent SBB run, I calculated a deflag cw flow rate of about 3.6 L/min at 4400 watts to condense the reflux. And, if you were running 2200 watts, you would only need 0.6 L/min deflag cw flow rate. A very big difference in the cw flow rate.

I used 10C ( 50F) for the deflag cw flow inlet temp and got a cw exit temp of 21C ( 69.8F ) for the 4400 watts run and about 38C ( 100.4F ) for the deflag cw exit temp for the 2200 watts run.

Can you estimate how much deflag cw flow you were using, a little or a lot? Was the deflag cw exit temp cool or hot?

Next time you run, measure the deflag cw flow rate and cw temperature in and out of the deflag. Just catch the exit cw in a bucket for a few minutes and time it and weigh it and calc the L/min rate. Report that and we can calculate the amount of reflux condensed and get an idea of the watts being used.

So fiery,
do you think there was a chance that you possibly were using both heating elements? Or, if not that, maybe even one 4500 watt heating element was close to its maximum watts?

Haggy

[fiery creations]

fiery,

What would explain your plater performance is if you had unknowingly been running 13 amps in both of your heating elements . That would likely deliver 4400 watts instead of the 2200 watts you thought was running.

For 4" regular bubble caps, that 4400 watts would lead to or be near flooding and certainly have much entrainment and smearing of tails up the column. The following post by bluefish ( and by some others ) shows flooding of his 4" column with regular caps at 4000 watts.

Re: Plate Reflux Column Operating Characteristics
Post by bluefish_dist » Mon Oct 24, 2022 11:24 am

I think the pro caps would flood around 5000-5500 and the regular caps around 4000 for a 4”. I used all still dragon parts, plates and caps. I think on the 4” there were 5 holes for the regular caps and 3 for pro caps. The regular were setup with 4 up, 1 down if I remember right.

He ran with a 10% pot abv, running at 25% pot abv like you did could be worse.

If you would have taken run data on the deflag cooling water ( cw ) flow rate and temperature in and out, we could back out the reflux flow rate that is condensed. That would lead to knowing the approximate vapor flow up the column and the watts being used.

For instance, I used your deflag design specifications that I had once before, and for your recent SBB run, I calculated a deflag cw flow rate of about 3.6 L/min at 4400 watts to condense the reflux. And, if you were running 2200 watts, you would only need 0.6 L/min deflag cw flow rate. A very big difference in the cw flow rate.

I used 10C ( 50F) for the deflag cw flow inlet temp and got a cw exit temp of 21C ( 69.8F ) for the 4400 watts run and about 38C ( 100.4F ) for the deflag cw exit temp for the 2200 watts run.

Can you estimate how much deflag cw flow you were using, a little or a lot? Was the deflag cw exit temp cool or hot?

Next time you run, measure the deflag cw flow rate and cw temperature in and out of the deflag. Just catch the exit cw in a bucket for a few minutes and time it and weigh it and calc the L/min rate. Report that and we can calculate the amount of reflux condensed and get an idea of the watts being used.

So fiery,
do you think there was a chance that you possibly were using both heating elements? Or, if not that, maybe even one 4500 watt heating element was close to its maximum watts?

Haggy

Haggy,

Apologies, I know you were trying to help me through this before. I’ve been trying to access old post and some of your messages, but the site is really difficult right now. I think I measured my cw output and sent it to you in a message a while back if the site is working better for you. On the next run, I’ll try to measure again along with temperature.

I definitely wasn’t using 4400 W. I completely unplugged one of my elements after heat up.

Even at a half a turn on the needle valve it was still pretty low. This picture probably won’t help much but this is what it looks like coming out of the deph.


Since my deph seems to be struggling, is it worth trying this-

Run the deph wide open with as much power as it can handle. Then slowly increase just my power until it overpowers it, increasing until I reach the right offtake speed?

[Sporacle]

I would full flow to the deflag and run 3000w of power till the plates are loaded, even if there is a bit pushing past it will be ok ( this is the way my still runs and I just use it to collect fores, I think about 700ml an hour might push through)

I would then reduce flow in quarter turn increments every ten minutes until your output is in the 2.5 litres per hour, check your ABV it should be around 90

This is for four plates, just my thoughts

[fiery creations]

I would full flow to the deflag and run 3000w of power till the plates are loaded, even if there is a bit pushing past it will be ok ( this is the way my still runs and I just use it to collect fores, I think about 700ml an hour might push through)

I would then reduce flow in quarter turn increments every ten minutes until your output is in the 2.5 litres per hour, check your ABV it should be around 90

This is for four plates, just my thoughts

This is actually how I collected my fores (without powering down, just letting it slip past a drip at a time) and it seemed like great separation.

I guess I may as well try. Is there a reason to not just power up through it? If I understand correctly, it just may cause more reflux and flood the plates?

[Sporacle]

I guess I may as well try. Is there a reason to not just power up through it? If I understand correctly, it just may cause more reflux and flood the plates?

By powering up through it do you mean increasing power until you overwhelm your deflag. If this is what you mean I wouldn't run that way.

Plated columns are all about balance the 3000w at 240v that I mentioned is the base power setting for my still.
The power is the initiation so if it is in the right area then you can dial the flow rate to adjust your take off rate

Good luck

[Saltbush Bill]

Sporacle is correct, powering so high that you overwelm the defleg enough to be producing spirit at anywhere like the correct speed, will in most cases end in flooding of the plates and smearing of the spirit.
The process needs to be looked at as a balancing act between power input a defleglamator control.
Not just power control.
It's also worth noting that sporacle runs perforated plates, you run cap plates.
Perfs require more energy to run and to preform at optimum than caps plates do.
Caps in general work on less power and over a broader range of power than perfs.
Personally, I think you are over powering it if you are throwing enough heat at it to even get a few drips past the defleglamator.
Are you running a needle valve on the defleglamator coolent flow?

[SW_Shiner]

I think the issue is just that the defleg is undersized for what it needs to do. I had the same issue with my 3" of the same construction. At only 6" long, and made of stainless, it just cant handle the vapour speed of high power inputs. A lot of vapour just shoots right through the tubes without even starting to cool. I solved the issue by stacking another and running water to them in series.

[haggy]

fiery,

I sent this before I saw the above posts.

OK, thanks for clearing that up, one heating element in use. Probably not high watts then causing excessive vapor up the plates. And the cw flow was low, not high, so not too much reflux flow. So, it is hard to imagine too much entrainment and smearing.

You think the deflag can be the problem. So let's look at this and confirm this is a CM column. I found an old calc I did of your still and deflag operation. The deflag design was 8 tubes of 0.5 inch diameter and 6 inches long in a 3" diam shell, stainless steel. I could not get the mile high web site picture of it. Are these the correct dimensions? And what is the cw inlet temperature? You said it was super cold, that might be why a low cw flow rate is used.

Not sure about your test scheme. What cw flow rate would you run? What is wide open? You do not want to exceed say 3600 watts. Wide open might be the problem.

We need to understand the deflag performance when you start up and equilibrate the column. Here is a start up method to try. For the above deflag design, and with a cw inlet of 15C ( 59 F ), set 2400 watts with a pot charge of about 20% abv and run about 1.4 liter/min cw flow rate just before it boils and then see if that condenses all the reflux. Increase the cw flow a little if all the vapor is not condensed. Hold there for 5-10 minutes, then lower the cw flow rate slowly until and after you get distillate flow. Then hold that cw flow steady when you get close to 1 Liter/hr distillate rate.

Maybe we should worry more about your super cold cw inlet temperature. Have you always run super cold cw in the past plater runs that were not good? If the super cold cw cools the reflux too low, then the cold reflux draining down would cool the plates and affect the column performance. A good target to shoot for is having the cw exit temperature about 130 F. Any idea what your cw exit temp has been?

You said:

After I reached a boil I turned my deph on full blast to load the plates. Every time I tried going above 2200 watts it would start slipping past it. Is this likely the issue I need to resolve so I don't get massive smearing?

What is full blast? How many Liters/minute cw flow? What is the inlet cw temperature? Also, what do you mean by " it would start slipping past it".

Maybe that full blast is a problem that you start with initially and do not recover from, the plates might have gotten too cold from the initial reflux. Does anyone have experience with this? How about tempering the cw to 15C ( 59F ) and not running full blast and see what that does.

Last thing, I ran my HD condenser calculator on your SBB, 2200 watt, 1 L/hr distillate rate run above, but I do not have the actual cw flow rate and temps, so IF the deflag design is as I stated above and IF the cw is 10C inlet and IF you ran 1 Liter/min cw flow, you could cool the reflux down to 90F vs 160-170F desired. That could affect the column performance. If you ran about 0.8 Liter/min cw, the reflux would not be too cold. But If the cw inlet is 5C (41F), a 0.8 Liter/min cw flow might get the reflux too cold.

So, I think you should not do a dephlag cw full blast startup anymore with super cold cw. Try the above startup method and let's see what happens. And measure the cw flow rate and in and out temperatures during this time of learning the best still operation. Also, do you have any temperature measurements along the column?

You do not like numbers, but at this stage of learning how to best run your column, we need numbers to understand what is happening and figure out what is wrong.

A lot of questions here, I hope you can answer most/all of them. I will do some more plate column and deflag condenser calcs and report back when you confirm the deflag design and some cw information.

haggy

[Sporacle]

You do not like numbers, but at this stage of learning how to best run your column, we need numbers to understand what is happening and figure out what is wrong.

[fiery creations]

fiery,

I sent this before I saw the above posts.

OK, thanks for clearing that up, one heating element in use. Probably not high watts then causing excessive vapor up the plates. And the cw flow was low, not high, so not too much reflux flow. So, it is hard to imagine too much entrainment and smearing.

You think the deflag can be the problem. So let's look at this and confirm this is a CM column. I found an old calc I did of your still and deflag operation. The deflag design was 8 tubes of 0.5 inch diameter and 6 inches long in a 3" diam shell, stainless steel. I could not get the mile high web site picture of it. Are these the correct dimensions? And what is the cw inlet temperature? You said it was super cold, that might be why a low cw flow rate is used.

Not sure about your test scheme. What cw flow rate would you run? What is wide open? You do not want to exceed say 3600 watts. Wide open might be the problem.

We need to understand the deflag performance when you start up and equilibrate the column. Here is a start up method to try. For the above deflag design, and with a cw inlet of 15C ( 59 F ), set 2400 watts with a pot charge of about 20% abv and run about 1.4 liter/min cw flow rate just before it boils and then see if that condenses all the reflux. Increase the cw flow a little if all the vapor is not condensed. Hold there for 5-10 minutes, then lower the cw flow rate slowly until and after you get distillate flow. Then hold that cw flow steady when you get close to 1 Liter/hr distillate rate.

Maybe we should worry more about your super cold cw inlet temperature. Have you always run super cold cw in the past plater runs that were not good? If the super cold cw cools the reflux too low, then the cold reflux draining down would cool the plates and affect the column performance. A good target to shoot for is having the cw exit temperature about 130 F. Any idea what your cw exit temp has been?

You said:

After I reached a boil I turned my deph on full blast to load the plates. Every time I tried going above 2200 watts it would start slipping past it. Is this likely the issue I need to resolve so I don't get massive smearing?

What is full blast? How many Liters/minute cw flow? What is the inlet cw temperature? Also, what do you mean by " it would start slipping past it".

Maybe that full blast is a problem that you start with initially and do not recover from, the plates might have gotten too cold from the initial reflux. Does anyone have experience with this? How about tempering the cw to 15C ( 59F ) and not running full blast and see what that does.

Last thing, I ran my HD condenser calculator on your SBB, 2200 watt, 1 L/hr distillate rate run above, but I do not have the actual cw flow rate and temps, so IF the deflag design is as I stated above and IF the cw is 10C inlet and IF you ran 1 Liter/min cw flow, you could cool the reflux down to 90F vs 160-170F desired. That could affect the column performance. If you ran about 0.8 Liter/min cw, the reflux would not be too cold. But If the cw inlet is 5C (41F), a 0.8 Liter/min cw flow might get the reflux too cold.

So, I think you should not do a dephlag cw full blast startup anymore with super cold cw. Try the above startup method and let's see what happens. And measure the cw flow rate and in and out temperatures during this time of learning the best still operation. Also, do you have any temperature measurements along the column?

You do not like numbers, but at this stage of learning how to best run your column, we need numbers to understand what is happening and figure out what is wrong.

A lot of questions here, I hope you can answer most/all of them. I will do some more plate column and deflag condenser calcs and report back when you confirm the deflag design and some cw information.

haggy

Here are the measurements I got from my deph-7 tubes, .890" diamter, 5.75" long.

Here are the CW measurements I just got-

Full blast (open completely- 1.2LPM
1/2 turn open- 0.76LPM
1/4 open- 0.38LPM
1/8 open- 0.1LPM

This part is probably important. I should add that my pump goes into a splitter to my PC and RC. If I shut off the PC, I can increase my CW to 3.1LPM.

My colling water inlet varies. I try to fill my 255 gallon reservoir with fresh cold water before a spirit run. Right now it measure 47F but was probably in the 50's when I filled it.

So it sounds like at 3000 watts and 1.2LPM of roughly 50F water was it's max capability to knock down distillate with four 4" plates without having it overpower the deph. Does that sound right? Guessing it doesn't since you suggested 1.4LPM then increasing a little.

I see what you mean about too cool of cw temp. I always added fresh cold water thinking it was good wanting max knockdown power, but maybe that was a mistake. I do not know my exit temp but will get set up to try what you suggested and take more measurements.

It sounds like I MAY have been too cold at 0.76LPM (1/2) turn during the last run. I remember reading bubble caps are "tails traps" somewhere. Is this what they meant by that? Once you get tails up there, it's too late to have it clear out and regain equilibrium like a column would?


I love numbers. I really enjoy what you add to this site and think numbers can be a lot more helpful than "you have to run it by feel and figure out what yours likes." That's true, but numbers are a great place to start before fine tuning it. Running by feel has left me out a dozen hours of my life and right where I started...


Thanks for all the replies everyone. Next attempt coming up...

[Chauncey]

Another strange issue I forgot. My condenser seems to have vapor coming out of the end only when I'm using plates and the dephlegmator. I can strip like hell with a huge power input and it doesn't do that in pot mode.

The condenser is icy cold to the touch, and the distillate is cold. What the hell? It wasn't huffing.

Water is too cold to depth and pc sounds like. Set till yer pc has a nice gradient.

[haggy]

fiery,

Thanks for the info. The larger tube diameter makes a difference - more surface area, more cooling. The cw flow rates and cw inlet temp look ok.

So here are the deflag condenser calcs for your 3000 watt case at TOTAL REFLUX. But I would not advise a 3000 watt run first. That looks almost doable at 1.2 LPM cw flow. The condenser watts ( 2132 ) are almost equal to the Heat Required watts ( 2246 ), They should be higher to cool it down a little.

But - there is a possible elephant in the room. I do not estimate the velocity of the vapor up the tube and assume the vapor does not bypass without seeing the tube walls. The 5.75 inch length may be a problem at higher pot watts and vapor flow.

As SW_Shiner says above:

I think the issue is just that the defleg is undersized for what it needs to do. I had the same issue with my 3" of the same construction. At only 6" long, and made of stainless, it just cant handle the vapour speed of high power inputs. A lot of vapour just shoots right through the tubes without even starting to cool. I solved the issue by stacking another and running water to them in series.

So, here is a case at 2200 watts, the vapor flow and velocity is lower and probably not bypassing. Again TOTAL REFLUX and the cw for the run would be a little less than that. Your 0.76 LPM cw flow would just barely condense that, so a little more is best for total reflux. Then decrease the cw flow a little bit slowly to get the desired distillate rate ( 1 or 1.5 L/hr).

Of course, these are ball park ( infield ) estimates. Best I can do but they have worked elsewhere. One more, why not. The cw flow rate to give 1.5 L/hr distillate rate is 0.518 LPM via the search method in the calcs. So not a lot of wiggle room in cw flow rate.

haggy

[fiery creations]

fiery,

Thanks for the info. The larger tube diameter makes a difference - more surface area, more cooling. The cw flow rates and cw inlet temp look ok.

So here are the deflag condenser calcs for your 3000 watt case at TOTAL REFLUX. But I would not advise a 3000 watt run first. That looks almost doable at 1.2 LPM cw flow. The condenser watts ( 2132 ) are almost equal to the Heat Required watts ( 2246 ), They should be higher to cool it down a little.


image.png


image.png


But - there is a possible elephant in the room. I do not estimate the velocity of the vapor up the tube and assume the vapor does not bypass without seeing the tube walls. The 5.75 inch length may be a problem at higher pot watts and vapor flow.

As SW_Shiner says above:

I think the issue is just that the defleg is undersized for what it needs to do. I had the same issue with my 3" of the same construction. At only 6" long, and made of stainless, it just cant handle the vapour speed of high power inputs. A lot of vapour just shoots right through the tubes without even starting to cool. I solved the issue by stacking another and running water to them in series.

So, here is a case at 2200 watts, the vapor flow and velocity is lower and probably not bypassing. Again TOTAL REFLUX and the cw for the run would be a little less than that. Your 0.76 LPM cw flow would just barely condense that, so a little more is best for total reflux. Then decrease the cw flow a little bit slowly to get the desired distillate rate ( 1 or 1.5 L/hr).


image.png


image.png



Of course, these are ball park ( infield ) estimates. Best I can do but they have worked elsewhere. One more, why not. The cw flow rate to give 1.5 L/hr distillate rate is 0.518 LPM via the search method in the calcs. So not a lot of wiggle room in cw flow rate.



image.png


image.png


haggy

Thanks Haggy. I split my cw outputs so I can get some temps and flow rates. Getting ready to give it a shot.


If I'm understanding you correctly, somewhere around 2200 watts to run, and cw of 0.8LPM should be around enough for total reflux. Cut down the cw and end up somewhere between 0.518 LPM and 0.8, adjusting to getting 1-1.5 LPM distillate offtake.

ETA: Something still seems off. Why wouldn't my cw of 1.2 LPM handle the 2200 watts?? I started that whole last run at 2200 watts and full blast on the deph. It sounds like that should handle it

ETA2: Maybe this is the culprit. I fired up and checked, and now fully open on the dep is over 2 LPM. Pump issues and fluctuating cw? Wondering if maybe there's gunk in the deph cooling jacket impeding flow. Wish there was a way to see inside.

[haggy]

Full blast of 1.2 LPM or more could cool the reflux down too far. Might have cooled and quenched the top plates.

What do you mean by handle the 2200 watts?

[fiery creations]

Full blast of 1.2 LPM or more could cool the reflux down too far. Might have cooled and quenched the top plates.

What do you mean by handle the 2200 watts?

[fiery creations]

Full blast of 1.2 LPM or more could cool the reflux down too far. Might have cooled and quenched the top plates.

What do you mean by handle the 2200 watts?

Gotcha.

In the first post on this thread, I described my run. I only started with 2200 watts and the deph running full blast. It could not handle keeping it in full reflux and the vapor at 2200 W was overpowering it. I went back and saw you said 0.6LPM cw should have caught that. Not even 1.2 seemed to full condense everything. I'm worried I have something else going on and I'm chasing my tail. I will be closely watching and measuring my cw on this run.

[fiery creations]

I’m going to keep updating this post throughout the run, so I have something to reference later that I can’t misplace, and hopefully give you as much info as possible

Blasted full power until 175F

Reduced power to 2200 W

Dialed CW to exactly 1.4 LPM

Bottom plate starts at a pot temp of 182F

Slowly let plates load

The rest of the plates start loading at a pot temp of 184F

Head temp above deph spikes to 130 F and then starts to calm down stabilizing at 84F.

After five minutes, CW hold steady at 1.4 LPM. Temperature 74F

After five more minutes, cw temp is raised to 78F. CW LPM remains unchanged.

Close needle valve one quarter turn reducing rate to one LPM. Wait 10 minutes

Close needle valve 1/4 turn resulting in 0.7 LPM. Head temperature begins to rise.

After five minutes head temp stabilizes at 162F. CW temp raises to 100 F.

Closed needle valve 1/8 of a turn resulting in 0.5 LPM CW.

Distillate begins collecting at a very slow drip.

After five minutes head temp stabilizes at 166F and CW at 122F. Distinct fores smell in distillate.

Closed needle valve by an indeterminable small amount resulting in 0.4 LPM CW. Distillate offtake increases to a faster drip. After five minutes CW temp increases to 128F

Close needle valve to approximately 1/4 turn from fully closed, resulting in 0.2 LPM CW

After five minutes, CW temp raises to 135F. Ever so slightly opened needle valve.

After 10 minutes, CW temp remains unchanged. Distillate collecting at 2.4 LPH. Opened needle valve slightly.

After 10 minutes, distillate appears to be collecting at 2LPH. Opened needle valve slightly.

I went back and forth from 1/4 turn to the tiniest bit I could humanely do up and back down, waiting 10 mins between each one. I finally got it consistent at 1.25 LPH and left it. CW is 0.2LPH and 134F