220VAC from Dyer outlet? What power controller ?

[planohog]

I am doing research on how to use the 220VAC from the dyer outlet to drive a 10-15G boiler.
what power controller works with that source and voltage to control a electronic unit like a digi boiler.
I feel pretty safe around 110V, but not so much around 220V.

[quadra]

Three or four wire dryer plug?

[planohog]

it has 4 , the bottom in in a L shape
I bet is on : Nema 14-30P 30A 125V/250V AC Plug, 4-Prong Dryer 30Amp ( this is the plug that is used in that socket on the wall )

[zach]

If you want to purchase a controller search for Auber or Blichmann Power Controller.

There are a number of build threads on this forum if you have the skills to build one.

[Salt Must Flow]

it has 4 , the bottom in in a L shape
I bet is on : Nema 14-30P 30A 125V/250V AC Plug, 4-Prong Dryer 30Amp ( this is the plug that is used in that socket on the wall )

That plug can accommodate any controller because it has two 120V hot wires, a ground wire and a neutral wire. The most basic controllers only need two 120V hot wires and a ground.

Now the question comes, exactly what boiler to you intend to use? If it will be a 240V DigiBoil like you mentioned, well that boiler just needs plugged in if you intend to use its onboard controls. It's onboard controls offer 2000w, 1000w, and 500w at the flip of a switch on the unit itself assuming that it does not incorporate a thermostat to control temperature. The 240V DigiBoil only requires two hot wires and a ground. You can install a 4 wire plug on the end of the DigiBoil's power cord, but you only need to wire the two hots and a ground for it to work as intended. I imagine you could buy an adapter that adapts 3 wire to a 4 wire plug.

Some people open up similar boilers, bypass the control mechanisms and use a separate controller to have full control over the heating element. If you plan to do this, you can use the most basic controllers (2 hots and a ground) or any modern controller (2 hots, ground and neutral).

I know this all might sound confusing, but it's really very simple. The presence of a neutral wire is the main difference. The neutral wire is very handy because it allows people to incorporate convenient things like a 120V cooling fan, 120V LED indicator lights, 120V electric alarm buzzers, etc... A little 120V computer fan powered by a Wallwart within the controller's enclosure keeps a SSR (solid state relay) or a SSVR (solid state variable relay) and the heatsink cool as it operates. Very important in my opinion. To wire a Wallwart, you just tap into ONE of the hot wires and the neutral wire. Some people use a 240V computer fan so that they do not require using a Wallwart. Some people like to incorporate a 120V receptacle with a switch to operate a pump for instance. That would use ONE hot, a neutral and a ground.

[quadra]

That is a great power source for a small still. If you are talking about the digiboil kettles you might want to do some reading about them here before you buy- they are thermostatically controlled with a number of preset heating levels, this is not ideal for distilling. What you will want is to have power input control not temperature control. There are people who have modified the wiring of these units to allow an external power controller, so that is an option if you are committed to that boiler, but you may want to look at what other options are available before you spend your loot. Some of the milk jug and keg conversions are probably a better choice for a boiler. There are a few really great power controller builds on this site and lots of support if you want to tackle a build of your own. It might be a bit of work but it is also a great way to learn about your system and how everything works, as well as a chance to get a better understanding of that 240V power, how it works.

If you have 15 minutes I highly recommend watching the excellent video on YouTube by "engineering mindset" titled - sub panels explained- why are neutral and ground separated? This visually explains power and grounding in a really clear way.



You can think of your boiler as a sub panel load with the heating element(s) as the circuits, and the power controller as a dimmer switch regulating the flow of power on a lighting circuit. The digiboil would be more like an electric kettle fully on or fully off depending on a thermostat to control it at a single set temperature.

[planohog]

I have experience with a 35L 110V digiboil, nice unit, when it gets to temp it turns off the fire. Then on again and off again.
My unit, elcheepo amozon, AC 110V 230V 10000W Voltage Regulator, Electronic Thyristor Voltage Regulator, SCR Voltage Regulator Dimmer, Motor Speed Controller , works great, I have set marks so I can turn the dial and get what I need out of it. One day I might invest in a 220vac unit.
it will boil my water faster and I can add seafood faster The controller I have only has two inputs and two outputs, the ground I use is the chassis of the unit. I added that for my own good. I am not sure if that unit would also be good for 220V.
Thanks for all your reply. I think one day I might try DigiBoil - 65L/17.1G (220V)

[quadra]

Wow.... I have never distilled seafood...sounds interesting

So if I am understanding this correctly you are asking about how to tap a NEMA15-30R outlet so that you can use the higher ampacity of the circuit to run a 120V digiboil you are controlling with an SCR?
Totally not recommended but easy to do! We can even show you how...

But..... if you do tap into 30A of 120V and run it through your SCR , what do you think the wiring and element in a 120V boiler designed for max 1800 Watts will do when it is feed up to 3600W ?

[planohog]

my appoligies for being unclear,

I want to use a 220V boiler and was wondering how I can use a power controller with it.

[NormandieStill]

But..... if you do tap into 30A of 120V and run it through your SCR , what do you think the wiring and element in a 120V boiler designed for max 1800 Watts will do when it is feed up to 3600W ?

Unless he changes the element, nothing at all. If you connect a 1.8kW element to a 16A supply or a 32A supply it won't change what it pulls. You're not pushing more electrons through it, just making them available if requested!

[quadra]

that is exactlly right... but it sounds like Planohog has a 110V unit and one day may upgrade to a 220V unit, but that he is asking about running his SCR on 220V with his current ( 110v ) unit... ( if I am misunderstanding , my apologies.. )

Which leads to the next part, Plano if you try to run your dual rated ( 110v/220v ) SCR on 220v it will run fine... you will need to confirm what voltage that 10KW rating is at..

BUT if you connect that 220v power to your 110v boiler element it will try to run at 4 times its rated power ( around 7200W ) before it and/ or the thermostatic control very quickly fails... and even worse, if the wiring is not correct ( ie: 220v to ground instead of neutral ) your boiler and anything else in the house attatched to ground like water taps, furnace, appliances etc. Potentially could be energized without the breaker tripping!

If what you were asking was can you run a 220v digiboiler and 220v SCR controller from that NEMA 15-30R 220v dryer receptacle..yes it will work fine.


PS: if that is your dryer outlet I am going to assume you are in North America and residential power to our homes is 120/240V not 220V so it is best to buy components that are appropriate for your power supply.

[planohog]

copy on two legs of 120 out of phase.

Regards PH

[jonnys_spirit]

copy on two legs of 120 out of phase.

Regards PH

And neutral is the center tap "0V" from the transformer on the street - which should also be bonded to GND at service entrance. You can get two dedicated 120V 15A circuits from a 240V 30A dryer outlet if desired.

Cheers,
jonny

[planohog]

240VDB-65L-220_img5.jpg

This is what that boiler has, in the wiring diagrams seems to be 220-250 vac potential between the two lugs with one ground.

looks like a person would need this to use with the dryer outlet.

ONETAK NEMA 14-30P to 6-30R 240V 30 Amp 4 Prong Male Plug to 3 Prong Female Receptacle Generator Dryer Welder EV Charger Power Cord Adapter

[jonnys_spirit]

240VDB-65L-220_img5.jpg

This is what that boiler has, in the wiring diagrams seems to be 220-250 vac potential between the two lugs with one ground.

looks like a person would need this to use with the dryer outlet.

ONETAK NEMA 14-30P to 6-30R 240V 30 Amp 4 Prong Male Plug to 3 Prong Female Receptacle Generator Dryer Welder EV Charger Power Cord Adapter

Or a standard cheap NEMA box with wirenuts inside. That's what I used and a dryer plug from home depot coming out one side with the wires to the power controller connected inside with the wirenuts. Dedicated dryer extension cable to the controller.

Cheers,
j

[planohog]

Then somewhere between the wall and the boiler will be a power control to tune the temp you need without losing the heat source.

[shadylane]

240VDB-65L-220_img5.jpg

This is what that boiler has, in the wiring diagrams seems to be 220-250 vac potential between the two lugs with one ground.

The plug is 240v but what about the heating element?
I'd recommend using a ohm meter just to make sure.
Measure between the straight blades on the plug to see what the resistance is.
Once we are sure the heater matches the voltage, I'll draw a diagram on how to wire it to the dryer outlet.

[quadra]

Wait a minute... you said you had a 35L 110v digiboil..? This picture is not the plug that is on that unit is it...?

[planohog]

Picking this back up .
DERNORD 2 Inch (OD64) Tri-clamp Ripple Heating Element Electric Water Heater 5500W 240V
at one end of the cable in the wall will be 220V from dryer ( NEMA 14-30 male plug ).
The other end of the cable will be the SCR. I understand to only use the two HOT wires , not the neutral.
Ground the chassis of the SCR . The output of the SCR will deliver power to the Heating element, two hots and a ground.

The ground should have continuity from the pot to the house ground for safety. This is my opinion not a fact anywhere so watch out.

I have this one for my 110vac application. It claims to be ok for 220. I might get another, unless there is a better unit.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08VNYJLDT?re ... in_title_2

description: ( AC 110V 230V 10000W Voltage Regulator, Electronic Thyristor Voltage Regulator, SCR Voltage Regulator Dimmer, Motor Speed Controller)

any thoughts ?

[andystanton74]

Picking this back up .
DERNORD 2 Inch (OD64) Tri-clamp Ripple Heating Element Electric Water Heater 5500W 240V
at one end of the cable in the wall will be 220V from dryer ( NEMA 14-30 male plug ).
The other end of the cable will be the SCR. I understand to only use the two HOT wires , not the neutral.
Ground the chassis of the SCR . The output of the SCR will deliver power to the Heating element, two hots and a ground.

The ground should have continuity from the pot to the house ground for safety. This is my opinion not a fact anywhere so watch out.

I have this one for my 110vac application. It claims to be ok for 220. I might get another, unless there is a better unit.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08VNYJLDT?re ... in_title_2

description: ( AC 110V 230V 10000W Voltage Regulator, Electronic Thyristor Voltage Regulator, SCR Voltage Regulator Dimmer, Motor Speed Controller)

any thoughts ?

I'm sure it would work with 220. I have a similar one that I use in both my 240 and 120 volt box. I prefer the digital over the twist. https://a.co/d/0sZU8T5

[MooseMan]

Picking this back up .
DERNORD 2 Inch (OD64) Tri-clamp Ripple Heating Element Electric Water Heater 5500W 240V
at one end of the cable in the wall will be 220V from dryer ( NEMA 14-30 male plug ).
The other end of the cable will be the SCR. I understand to only use the two HOT wires , not the neutral.
Ground the chassis of the SCR . The output of the SCR will deliver power to the Heating element, two hots and a ground.

The ground should have continuity from the pot to the house ground for safety. This is my opinion not a fact anywhere so watch out.

I have this one for my 110vac application. It claims to be ok for 220. I might get another, unless there is a better unit.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08VNYJLDT?re ... in_title_2

description: ( AC 110V 230V 10000W Voltage Regulator, Electronic Thyristor Voltage Regulator, SCR Voltage Regulator Dimmer, Motor Speed Controller)

any thoughts ?

Those generic Chinese ones are fine for lower wattage, but at 5,500w I think you'll have issues.
The ones "Rated" to 10,000w are, if you look at the fine print, only actually rated to half that, and that is a stretch for continuous use conditions . We are running power through them for hours at a time.

I've used several different ones now on 2,000w 240v elements with no issues, but people here with higher wattage elements, and one of my friends who was running a 3,200w element with a 10,000w unit like that, have melted the connectors.

[Salt Must Flow]

I'm a big fan of the Auber Power Regulators, more specifically the Auber DSPR1 and their deluxe Auber DSPR400. The controllers themselves basically send a low voltage signal to a Solid State Relay which then allows 240V current to pass through it to the element. This makes these setups very robust, long lasting, repeatable and reliable unlike those cheap China SCRs. A LOT of people use those SCRs. Many say they work and many say they burn up so I decided to not use them.

The Auber DSPR1 is their most basic variable power controller. You can adjust the power from 0% to 100% with the turn of the knob. You'll need an enclosure, a Solid State Relay, an aluminum heatsink and ideally a fan to ensure the heat from the Solid State Relay is continuously dissipated during long runs. Super reliable, simple, very long lasting and a proven performer.

The Auber DSPR400 is their deluxe controller. It has two functions. It works as a PID controller as well as a variable power controller. You can adjust the power from 0% to 100% with the turn of the knob. It has multiple optional alarm settings and many other smart settings that many will probably never put to full use. Needs an enclosure, a Solid State Relay, a heatsink, fan and a RTD Sensor which is best used with a Panel Mount Connector. You can install optional indicator lights, alarm light/buzzer and alarm kill switch. The RTD Sensor (temp probe) is accurate to 1/10th of a degree F and the current temp is visible on the controller's display. This is by FAR my favorite controller of any that I've tried, so much so that I built two of them. It does more than I'll probably ever need so the higher price was not a concern.

To use either of these Auber controllers you need two 120V hot lines, a ground and a neutral. The neutral line and one hot line is used to wire the Auber controller itself as well as a fan (unless you prefer to use a 240V fan). Since you have a neutral line, you could easily use either of these controllers. I have reliable wiring diagrams for these for use here in the US.

[Yummyrum]

Having never had 110 - 120v as an option , I just don’t see why anyone would add the extra complexity of including a Nuetral when Fans , Pumps , Auber controllers etc are all available for 220-240v .

[shadylane]

Having never had 110 - 120v as an option , I just don’t see why anyone would add the extra complexity of including a Nuetral when Fans , Pumps , Auber controllers etc are all available for 220-240v .

I hear Ya.
Here in the states newer houses and mobile homes have 4 wires, two hots and a separate ground and neutral.
Many of the older houses have only three wires, the safest option is to forget about using the ground to get 120v.
It's better to use readily available 240v fans, pumps and electronics.

[Salt Must Flow]

Having never had 110 - 120v as an option , I just don’t see why anyone would add the extra complexity of including a Nuetral when Fans , Pumps , Auber controllers etc are all available for 220-240v .

GOOD CALL Yummy. I never noticed that! I've always powered the Auber units, fans, etc... using 110V and here in the US we always use a neutral line with 110V.

[planohog]

I am going to build a controller from SSC-40VA CGELE Solid State Relay SSR-40VA 500K ohm 2W to 24-480VAC 40A Single Phase Solid State Relay Resistance Voltage Regulator Authorized+Heat Sink+Potentiometer . Input will be one of the 120 hots, the other will connect to one of the hots on the water heater. The other water heater connector will be hot all the time. No current flow unless the device is conducting.

I figure a switch on the pot lead will help ensure no current flow , but there will be potential voltage looking for a path to ground.
I need find a box for it. Not sure wify wants 220 open on kitchen counter heating up water for a shrimp boil.

this device has included heat sink , pookie, I found a supposed quiet fan. This is turning out to be nearly all custom DIY.
glad someone left me some HBB to help me sleep.

[Yummyrum]

Sounds like a plan Plano