Alcoengine Reflux Column

[nikolav]

Hi guys
To those of you if any who have the Alcoengine Reflux Column, what collecting speed do you achieve? The manual says 1.2L per hour, but I'm getting ~1/4 of this speed. It goes drip .... drip ... drip and it takes forever.
I'm using a circulating pump, which is with adequate debit, but it doesn't matter if I even connect to the mains and run at full speed, which is much ore than the minimum recommended of 8L/h.
Changing the nozzles doesn't change anything - same speed. I also played with a voltage regulator. Again, nothing changes if it is at 100% or 60%-70%
The alcohol comes at ~92%-93%, which is within range, but way too slow.
It is mounted on top of T500 boiler.

[NZChris]

I wouldn't use one of those unless it was the only tool I had available.

Have you tried stripping the wash first so that you are charging it with 30-40% ABV Low Wines?

[decoy]

The basic designe is based on the Bocakob, the Reflux collection is cleverly simplified, only criticism is the column length, but its for an entry leveln pricepoint.

That aside, Iwould be looking for shit in the needle valve blocking collection.
It also appears to have a drip tail just under the reflux condenser, it could have broken or bent returning reflux away from collection cup attached to needle valve.



Image take from kegland instruction YouTube

[SW_Shiner]

Thats an interesting design.

What is it packed with? If its packed with ceramic rings or SPP then its possible something may have fallen into the collection tube if the column was turned upside down at any point. Or even a bug may have gotten in if it has sat unused for an extended period. Have you tried blowing through the tube and seeing if you can detect any change of resistance between nozzles?

[Yummyrum]

92-93% sounds about right for one of those at a drip speed
I agree with Decoy , sounds like the needle valve or line may be blocked . Remove the valve and see if the alcohol comes pissing out . If not , then there may be likely something wrong with it internally .

I also agree that they are too short and another few feet of packing would do wonders .

And Chris is also correct . Stripping the wash before running through the Alcogen will help with ABV ….and net you a much cleaner Neutral .

You're not doing something line using a 240v T500
on 120

EDIT: posted with SW-shiner . Yup a bug up the spout will do it .

[nikolav]

It's a brand new unit. The packing is stainless steel mesh.
Nothing is blocking the valves. I triple checked . That was my initial suspicion, but no, the path is clear. Haven't tried without any valve, but it'll be the last thing to do.
I was running a spirit run (TPW) and the low wines were at 40%

I removed the still mesh to check the inside, but all looks good. Nothing is blocking anything.

[decoy]

You're not doing something line using a 240v T500
on 120

Yummyrum was asking if its a 240v element in the T500, could you be running it on 110v?

this is a Good question and would explain low output.

[NZChris]

Unfortunately, suppliers don't have to pass any qualification checks before they are able to choose still designs to sell to customers who can't be bothered doing the research that they should have done themselves before swiping their cards.

[SW_Shiner]

Haven't tried without any valve, but it'll be the last thing to do.

I would have made that the first thing i tried. Or at least with no restrictor. What power setting is your boiler on when running?

[nikolav]

The boiler (original T500 boiler, 2000w) is 220v and I'm in New Zealand, so no 110v are involved here. The boiler otherwise runs fine with the T500 column.
I usually run it via a volage controller at 70-80%, and with the Alcoengine I tried at various settings and with and without it. Nothing changes at all with the speed.
I'll try without the restrictor, but this is last resort as it means I'll have to sacrifice some otherwise good wash.
Hence I was asking for someone OWNING the said still, so they confirm their output speed.

[decoy]

basically its the same design as a Bokakob column, apart from that its related to power in.
You should be getting a reasonably steady unbroken stream.

The 240/110 is a USA thing, the poor basterds are on 110v, 240 is an optional power upgrade like getting 3 phase for NZ and OZ.
So if you ordered 240v in the US, you can plug it in but you will only get somewhere around half or less power.

[nikolav]

Yeah, I realized 110v is thing somewhere, so I should've specified
But, no it's a 220v device in a 220v environment.

Here's the actual speed I'm getting:

[SW_Shiner]

Whats the rate in the clip? How many ml/min?

[Yummyrum]

Yeah naa , thats fucked . Unscrew the valve . ……. Wait ….. like is it screwed in with teflon tape ?

Is there a sneaky layer over the hole ?

Take the valve off .

With the valve off , you should be getting all the condensed reflux pissing out the side of the still .

If so , then the still internals are fine .

Then attach the valve …… no restrictors .

With the valve fully open , you should be getting the same flow .


OK caviet . I am suggesting unsafe procedure ….. letting distillate exit a still in an controlled manor . This is something I would do briefly and outdoors . But fault finding needs to be done .

Sure , if yoy think the copper piss pipe is 100% nit blocked and have an adaptor then use that .

[nikolav]

Whats the rate in the clip? How many ml/min?

Around 250ml/h, which is ~4.8 times slower than what the manual is saying.

[nikolav]

Yeah naa , thats fucked . Unscrew the valve . ……. Wait ….. like is it screwed in with teflon tape ?

Is there a sneaky layer over the hole ?

Take the valve off .

That was literally the first thing I checked. No, there's no Teflon anywhere near the orifice. The Teflon is only on the threads.

[nikolav]

After repacking the column I'll try running another run tomorrow to see if it's going to be any better.

[Saltbush Bill]

Try it on a different boiler and see what happens.
The T500 boiler that you are using should be up to the job.
Are you 100% sure that the element under the boiler is working to full capacity?

[SW_Shiner]

I'm using a circulating pump, which is with adequate debit, but it doesn't matter if I even connect to the mains and run at full speed, which is much ore than the minimum recommended of 8L/h.

What does this refer to? what is the pump being used for?

[decoy]

I'm not familiar with the T500 boiler, some boilets have a double wall this acts as an insulator skin.

A reflux column actively creates reflux with the top condensor, there is no need for passive reflux.
I would wrap insulation around the boiler, column and on the lid.
I used those blue neoprene yoga mats and silver aluminium tape they use on saking in building construction.

[nikolav]

Try it on a different boiler and see what happens.
The T500 boiler that you are using should be up to the job.
Are you 100% sure that the element under the boiler is working to full capacity?

I will ask my mate to check with his boiler, which is the same, but I'm confident mine works fine. With the original T500 column and the pot still it works as expected.

[nikolav]

I'm using a circulating pump, which is with adequate debit, but it doesn't matter if I even connect to the mains and run at full speed, which is much ore than the minimum recommended of 8L/h.

What does this refer to? what is the pump being used for?

The pump is irrelevant, mate. Again, I also connected it to the sink directly to eliminate the pump out. Also if the water flow was inadequate I would get higher rate I would think.

[SW_Shiner]

The pump is irrelevant, mate. Again, I also connected it to the sink directly to eliminate the pump out. Also if the water flow was inadequate I would get higher rate I would think.

If the cooling water flow was less than needed i would expect less output. As the uncondensed vapour passes by the condenser. What is your coolant flow rate and exit temp? From what i can read in various instructions, the still requires approximately 21L/hour of cooling flow with an exit temp of around 35°c, is this the parameters you use?

[nikolav]

What bugs me is that they put more steel mesh where I'm not sure, it is supposed to be - inside the copper serpent at the top - the one in red:




I could see it with an endoscope when I removed the mesh from the bottom, but it can't be removed as the top is rivveted.

[nikolav]

The pump is irrelevant, mate. Again, I also connected it to the sink directly to eliminate the pump out. Also if the water flow was inadequate I would get higher rate I would think.

If the cooling water flow was less than needed i would expect less output. As the uncondensed vapour passes by the condenser. What is your coolant flow rate and exit temp? From what i can read in various instructions, the still requires approximately 21L/hour of cooling flow with an exit temp of around 35°c, is this the parameters you use?

The manual calls for 8l/m.: https://kegland.com.au/cdn/shop/files/A ... 4521417512
I adjusted the tap water to the precise flow and even faster. Haven't measured the output temp, but 35-ish looks about right.
With the first run I did, I was using some faints and I got pretty much as much alcohol as I was expecting, so I'm not concerned about any losses.

[Copperhead road]

Silly question- Is the reflux column brand new and this is the first time you have run it?

If so I think it could be something internally faulty with it.

[nikolav]

Yes, it's brand new. The seller (Aliexpress) accepted the output is too slow and I was refunded. There's a slight shipping ding, that is just cosmetic, not affecting anything. Now I'm just trying to find out what is wrong and if it can be fixed.

[decoy]

So Amazon has refunded you and allowed you to keep the column or do you have to return it.

If you are keeping it and want to look at modding, follow below link to Bokakob design.

Many have placed a scrubber in the coil to baffle steam around the coils.

I see the problem being with the 3 copper prongs intended to drip a % of the product into that collection tube, I suspect its not dripping into that tube to cullect.
If you look on the Boka design, it collects all reflux in the angled plate, a benefit of this is you can collect 100% allowing you to run the column in pot still mode.

https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.ph ... flux_Still

[nikolav]

Hi Decoy
Yes, I had to keep it.
I guess I'll try to open the top and try to see/reach this angled prong.

[nikolav]

Deed done.
But nothing seems out of order here:






I'm out of ideas, really. I wouldn't suspect flow in the design, sure I'm not the first one to buy the still.
I don't have a wash I can try right now, but before disassembling it I also tried with and w/out the stainless steel mesh, with and without the restrictor using just plain water. Same output. And I'm 100% sure there's no blockage anywhere.