Stripping Run Spirit Run Definition

[Stonecutter]

Homebrewe11777, that is a good question. I feel like I’ve read something about that here somewhere but I can’t get the old rusty trap to recollect it.
Puking from those pesky foam proteins and product condenser limitations are the only two reasons I throttle my collection rate. But to paraphrase what Shady said earlier in this thread “Pick a speed you feel comfortable with, everything depends on what you want to accomplish”

[SW_Shiner]

But let me ask. Is there any particular reason why the stripping run should be fast? Time is money, I agree, but it's my time and my money, right?

I've always run my strips as fast as my condenser will handle for a couple of reasons. First off, time, because sitting there for ~3 hours is much better than sitting there for ~6 hours. Second reason, and this is just my thoughts. Running fast causes smearing, which in a spirit run is a bad thing, but i think during a stripping run some smearing is actually desired. Quickly drag all the alcohol and anything that sticks to it out, leaving the worst of the nasties behind, then clean it up during the spirit run. I find i lose a lot of good flavour if i run my stripping run too slow.

Later Edit I found that running my stripping run slower makes it 'too clean', and leaves a lot of the good funk behind.

[jonnys_spirit]

“Strip” just sorta feels like it implies hard and fast but i’ve also read about stripping via reflux which I’ve never done…

We don’t carefully perform the first distillation, we crank up the power as high as foaming and the PC can handle as soon as possible and somewhat forcefully - STRIP - the low wines out.

Cheers,
jonny

[SW_Shiner]

If i'm doing a neutral that i want absolutely clean, ill strip through my column with a little bit of reflux. Though that's not often, maybe once or twice a year.

[Salt Must Flow]

I've tried stripping sugar washes for neutral with reflux quite a few times and I decided it just wasn't worth all the extra time it took. I found that clearing the wash (or letting it clear) was more efficient. More efficient meaning that once cleared, do a quick stripping run, a normal spirit run and the difference was noticeably cleaner in comparison to not clearing. Long story short, I'd rather clear the wash than to sit by the still far longer to strip with reflux because it's painfully slow to obtain similar results to clearing.

[PalCabral]

Good point sbout the smeering, SW. I agree. But I often read that distillers stripp down to 40% or 30%. Not much good the smeering did if you cut off so early and left that much flavor behind in the pot, right?

Fast is a very liberal term and that’s why I am asking. For example, just because I question it, the term it self, it’s assumed I am advocating to run the stripping slow, which I’m not. Running as fast as your condenser can handle is a more qualitative expression, because it compares ”fast” to a condition. That’s better.

However, running as fast as my condenser could handle got me into scorching the eff of my rye. So there are more qualitative conditions to the term fast. So it’s really ”Run as fast as your condenser can handle without scorching your wash”. See what I mean?

To me, saying running the stripping run fast is too ambiguous. It’s actually the opposite that is the purpose: to not run it slow.

[SW_Shiner]

Still more good than no smearing at all. I often read that too, but its generally by newer posters explaining their method. Usually followed quickly by many recommendations to strip lower. I always recommend 25%-30% as that's what I learnt here and I've always done.

Fast should be easily understandable, but i agree, compared to what? It would lead to the question, 'how fast?' Now, every still is different, not every still has an electric element, and not every still has the same column/riser, but, every still has a condenser. So, run as fast as your condenser can handle made sense at the time. It also seems there wasn't as much on grain distilling going on, and most that were, used gas to heat the boiler, or put grains in the thumper to minimizing the risk of scorching.

I prefer to say 'run it as fast as you can.'

[PalCabral]

I prefer to say 'run it as fast as you can.'

That makes perfect sense.

[NZChris]

Fast is related to the limiting factor. That could be condenser efficiency, element size, burner size, still width, still head design, puking, maybe even a poorly designed cooling water supply. I'm often limited by puking.

[Homebrewer11777]

I get the idea about the advice being to run your still as fast as you can given how it has been designed. That is what I do and from time/energy/water perspective that all makes sense.

But I am wondering if there is an actual "fast enough" speed target that can be thought about that relates to vapor speed (measured where?) and the type of spirit the distiller is trying to make. Maybe I'd get more corn flavor into my low wines if I swapped my 3 inch still head for a 2 inch head on stripping runs...might be harder to control pukes but an increase in vapor speed might increase smearing due to entrainment...

[Salt Must Flow]

I get the idea about the advice being to run your still as fast as you can given how it has been designed. That is what I do and from time/energy/water perspective that all makes sense.

But I am wondering if there is an actual "fast enough" speed target that can be thought about that relates to vapor speed (measured where?) and the type of spirit the distiller is trying to make. Maybe I'd get more corn flavor into my low wines if I swapped my 3 inch still head for a 2 inch head on stripping runs...might be harder to control pukes but an increase in vapor speed might increase smearing due to entrainment...

"Fast enough" would be meaningless. Everyone has laid out what the potential limits are to a Stripping Run. You can strip with as much power your situation allows (within said limiting factors). Obviously you can strip slower. Any stated power input or take-off rate to say "fast enough" would be an arbitrary value. 2", 3" or 4" riser makes no difference.

For instance some strip at 5500W, get board with that, add a 2nd 5500W element and now can strip twice as fast. In this instance they're stripping as fast as they want even though the 'could' strip even faster.

[Homebrewer11777]

So I run my still by controlling watts into the boiler elements. Once a boil is reached, vapor speed is a function of watts and diameter. Increase watts without changing the still increases vapor speed. Increasing diameter of the still, for example by adding an onion on top of the boiler where I previously had a riser, reduces vapor speed at least in wider parts of the onion.

Fast enough was wrong way to say it. What I am actually wondering about it is possible to consider a "correct" vapor speed to intentionally determine the quality of the low wines. Quality being an arbitrary specification (say in terms of concentration of various congeners) determined by the distiller and might be higher in congeners for some spirits and lower for others.

I guess the response is going to be "it is just the stripping run, do your fine tuning in the spirit run". Or "if you want more flavor just add some fresh wash to your spirit run". That's ok too, just thinking out loud here.

[Salt Must Flow]

So I run my still by controlling watts into the boiler elements. Once a boil is reached, vapor speed is a function of watts and diameter. Increase watts without changing the still increases vapor speed. Increasing diameter of the still, for example by adding an onion on top of the boiler where I previously had a riser, reduces vapor speed at least in wider parts of the onion.

Fast enough was wrong way to say it. What I am actually wondering about it is possible to consider a "correct" vapor speed to intentionally determine the quality of the low wines. Quality being an arbitrary specification (say in terms of concentration of various congeners) determined by the distiller and might be higher in congeners for some spirits and lower for others.

I guess the response is going to be "it is just the stripping run, do your fine tuning in the spirit run". Or "if you want more flavor just add some fresh wash to your spirit run". That's ok too, just thinking out loud here.

Yes, it's just a stripping run. Strip as fast as you can. It's that simple.

Big copper onions, helmets or expansion chambers are for inducing passive reflux during a Spirit Run. I don't know if they make that much of a difference or not in hobby size stills.

[jonnys_spirit]

So I run my still by controlling watts into the boiler elements. Once a boil is reached, vapor speed is a function of watts and diameter. Increase watts without changing the still increases vapor speed. Increasing diameter of the still, for example by adding an onion on top of the boiler where I previously had a riser, reduces vapor speed at least in wider parts of the onion.

Fast enough was wrong way to say it. What I am actually wondering about it is possible to consider a "correct" vapor speed to intentionally determine the quality of the low wines. Quality being an arbitrary specification (say in terms of concentration of various congeners) determined by the distiller and might be higher in congeners for some spirits and lower for others.

I guess the response is going to be "it is just the stripping run, do your fine tuning in the spirit run". Or "if you want more flavor just add some fresh wash to your spirit run". That's ok too, just thinking out loud here.

Yes, it's just a stripping run. Strip as fast as you can. It's that simple.

Big copper onions, helmets or expansion chambers are for inducing passive reflux during a Spirit Run. I don't know if they make that much of a difference or not in hobby size stills.

They let me run with more power before foaming turns into puking on a strip run which equates to less time stillin or maybe even another strip run...

[SW_Shiner]

I think once its in vapour form, vapour speed has little to do with smearing. There may be a small bit of separation in the boiler/riser. But if it hasn't been turned to vapour yet its probably not going out the condenser. I think that if you are going to run it slow enough to benefit from vapour separation, it may as well be a one and done. Either that or strip through plates, there are plenty of people here that strip through their plated columns, usually with the deflag off.
I used to strip through 4 plates with the deflag off as i was lazy couldn't be bothered to tear my still down just to put it back next run. The plates would load a bit and hold till the end of the run. I have now moved to just pot for both stripping and spirit runs and i prefer the product i make that way.

I think the problem with setting a 'correct' value for anything, is that it creates an arbitrary target that people will try and hit, and then wonder why they cant, or if its going to be bad that they can't hit that goal.

There's also personal preference. I like my brown spirits funky, my low wines dirty and my still charges even dirtier. I want those nice oils on my low wines and i've found the best way for that is to crank the heat and let the vapour drag it all out.

I like saying 'run as fast as you can' because it also answers any subsequent questions, with the same answer.

[Stonecutter]

Either that or strip through plates, there are plenty of people here that strip through their plated columns, usually with the deflag off.
I used to strip through 4 plates with the deflag off as i was lazy couldn't be bothered to tear my still down just to put it back next run. The plates would load a bit and hold till the end of the run.

+1
This is my preferred stripping method….for now.

[PalCabral]

Big copper onions, helmets or expansion chambers are for inducing passive reflux during a Spirit Run. I don't know if they make that much of a difference or not in hobby size stills.

They let me run with more power before foaming turns into puking on a strip run which equates to less time stillin or maybe even another strip run...

My copper onion is producing massive passive (I like how I managed to put those words together) reflux. Because of it I have stopped using my copper onion on stripping runs, I don't need that sort of reflux in a stripping run. But I use it to its' advantage in the spirit runs. It lifts the start ABV by 2% ABV (at least) and keep's me high in ABV for a prolonged time during the heart's cut. When the ABV finally starts dropping, I turn on a fan pointing at the onion and the ABV rises again, giving me even more hearts.

[Stonecutter]

Stripping 20 gal. of Shady’s Sugar Shine. Collected a dram at 55% it was delicious.
Sitting at 40% for the total collected volume. I’m shy of 15% out the spout and about 5.5 gallons in the collection vessel. Going to continue to a total volume of 6 gallons. It’s definitely sweet water now (the alchometers have their limits). I’ll say it again. Strip hard and fast, it’s all going back in the boiler. The spirit run is the one that counts.

[PalCabral]

Stripping 20 gal. of Shady’s Sugar Shine. Collected a dram at 55% it was delicious.
Sitting at 40% for the total collected volume. I’m shy of 15% out the spout and about 5.5 gallons in the collection vessel. Going to continue to a total volume of 6 gallons. It’s definitely sweet water now (the alchometers have their limits). I’ll say it again. Strip hard and fast, it’s all going back in the boiler. The spirit run is the one that counts.

Just curious, what was the ABV of the wash you stripped? Where did the stripping run start?

[NZChris]

Stripping 20 gal. of Shady’s Sugar Shine. Collected a dram at 55% it was delicious.
Sitting at 40% for the total collected volume. I’m shy of 15% out the spout and about 5.5 gallons in the collection vessel. Going to continue to a total volume of 6 gallons. It’s definitely sweet water now (the alchometers have their limits). I’ll say it again. Strip hard and fast, it’s all going back in the boiler. The spirit run is the one that counts.

I stop at stripping at 40% for neutral, only going lower for flavored spirits. If I do collect further, I swap the collection vessel and add it to the next strip.

[Stonecutter]

I’m not stripping for neutral. Just making something to drink. I have no idea what my initial ABV was I just know that it registered under 0.99

If I’m trying for a cleaner Hooch I make very tight cuts for my spirit run and then collect for a “monster mash/bash”

I do agree with you though Chris. If looking for a neutral it is common to cut the stripping run short and temper with water if needed.

[NZChris]

Stripping SSS to 40%, I can get a pretty decent narrow heart cut with a pot still. Good enough for OEG. Feints get refluxed for gins that need really good neutral. I never drink any ‘neutral’ without further processing.